The D-Mid

[obewan]

The problem - our four most talented midfielders are not suited to play in a diamond formation (with a D-Mid). Donovan is much more suited to play in the midfield than up top, as has been pointed out so accurately many times. JOB & Reyna play well together. DMB has to play on the left when healthy.

The question - how close do you think the USMNT is to playing without a D-Mid in the 4-4-2 that BA likes to use?

With Gooch coming on strong and Pope/Gibbs/Bocanegra/Berhalter as other options at CB, we seem pretty well set there. Lewis kept his side under control against a speedy Mexican squad, as did Hejduk (our current 2nd choice behind 'Dolo). Since playing Mastro/Armas forces us to sit one of our middies or play Donovan up top (when everyone is healthy), should we look at playing a flat 4-4-2 in preparation for WC '06?

I believe our possession would be better and our pressure on the ball would be better up top, as well.

Thoughts?

[Nadir]

Good point. I think playing without a D-mid needs to be given a test in some of the games we have between now and the WC. I think it also depends on the stregths of the opposing team but I likt the idea of not have a defensive mid. It allows another one of better mid-fielders to be on the starting XI. IMO I think players like Reyna, O-Brien and Beasley bing strong defensive qualities to the game.

Another experiement I'd liek to see is how we woudl play with a three man back line with Lewis and Cherundolo playing as genuine wing backs. I think depending on the opponent it could again work very nicely.

Hopefully arena is planning on trying some of these formations.

[dlokteff]

The problem - our four most talented midfielders are not suited to play in a diamond formation (with a D-Mid). Donovan is much more suited to play in the midfield than up top, as has been pointed out so accurately many times. JOB & Reyna play well together. DMB has to play on the left when healthy.

The question - how close do you think the USMNT is to playing without a D-Mid in the 4-4-2 that BA likes to use?

With Gooch coming on strong and Pope/Gibbs/Bocanegra/Berhalter as other options at CB, we seem pretty well set there. Lewis kept his side under control against a speedy Mexican squad, as did Hejduk (our current 2nd choice behind 'Dolo). Since playing Mastro/Armas forces us to sit one of our middies or play Donovan up top (when everyone is healthy), should we look at playing a flat 4-4-2 in preparation for WC '06?

I believe our possession would be better and our pressure on the ball would be better up top, as well.

Thoughts?

We've played without a "D-Mid " plenty of times. Does this line-up look familiar? It was a pretty big game...

Brad Friedel
Tony Sanneh Eddie Pope Jeff Agoos Frankie Hejduk
Landon Donovan John O'Brien Claudio Reyna DaMarcus Beasley 5.83
Clint Mathis Brian McBride

[sidefootsitter]

Flat-4 is a hard formation to play in. Even England is having problems deciding who goes forward and who picks up the defensive responsibilities and they have Gerrard, Lampard, Cole and Beckham for that.

Sven's solution is a 4-5-1. That may be something to ponder about.

[Adam Zebrowski]

against many wc finalists sides, usa will need a d-mid, since it's very unlikely usa has sufficient possession skill to be able to go without one...

3-5-2 is always a possibility...

with oneywu gibbs and bocanegra in the back...

I still prefer mastroeni as his oevrall game is better than armas....

ideally, I like reyna and o'brien out there, and it might create the need to push donovan up top....

in the long run donovan adapting to being a forward enhances usa chances...I just like ej and donovan, and I think ej's presence gives donovan MORE room, which frees donovan to do what he does best, PLAY IN SPACE..

[mschofield]

... DaMarcus Beasley 5.83 ...There are versions of DMB?

[sidefootsitter]

There are versions of DMB? I prefer to consider the 2,005 version as DMB Beta. :p

[mschofield]

Flat-4 is a hard formation to play in. Even England is having problems deciding who goes forward and who picks up the defensive responsibilities and they have Gerrard, Lampard, Cole and Beckham for that.

Sven's solution is a 4-5-1. That may be something to ponder about.
It's the convertable 4-5-1/4-3-3, right? Aside from suiting becks really well, it's being called a failure for england. That said, we don't have the striker options they have, and we do have midfield strength, so it's probably something to tinker with.
I like it as an alternative, but not a standard.
It is a way to get lewis, DMB and Convey (if he continues apace) on the field at the same time, as well as reyna and LD _ who may really be better suited to a wide right role where he converts to a striker for sections of the game.
Major issue, though, is it probably takes wither McB or EJ off the field, and I hate to see that too often.

[DutchFootballRulez]

A 4-5-1 can be similar to a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3. It all depends on the 5th midfielder, and the wingers.

The 4-5-1 is out because it keeps EJ off the field. The 4-3-3 does the same unless Donovan gets more experience and we play short goal kicks (not likely), or use EJ as a target man.

But a midfield trio of Reyna, O'Brien, and Mastroeni provides almost everything you want. Putting Donovan for someone else in that trio leaves a defensive liabilty, adding Armas means they won't complete many passes.

a 4-4-2 still seems the most likely, but it's still up in the air as to what's going on with John O'Brien.

[sidefootsitter]

It's the convertable 4-5-1/4-3-3, right? ... Well ... you can also play three attacking midfielders behind one forward but you'd need a pretty mobile forward on top.

It may look something like ---

--------Johnson/Cunningham-----------

Beasley-----Mapp/Donovan----Quaranta

---------O'Brien---------Reyna--------

Serie A clubs are frequently found in that version of 4-5-1 but they don't play a lot of high balls like Arena does. (Though, in fairness to Arena, when you lose a long high ball, you don't create an offensive opportunity for the opponent as you would by turning over a short pass in midfield, something that is a big danger with Armas out there) The Italian clubs also push their wingbacks forward, which creates a very dynamic formation.

[superdave]

The 4-5-1 is out because it keeps EJ off the field.
Can you explain? I would think it keeps McBride off the field, not to mention the Burn have been playing some 4-3-3.

[Marko72]

Serie A clubs are frequently found in that version of 4-5-1 but they don't play a lot of high balls like Arena does. (Though, in fairness to Arena, when you lose a long high ball, you don't create an offensive opportunity for the opponent as you would by turning over a short pass in midfield, something that is a big danger with Armas out there) The Italian clubs also push their wingbacks forward, which creates a very dynamic formation.

That and we have McBride to win a good share of them. For us it kinda makes sense.

Also, I know a lot of you don't like this, but I'm not adverse to lining up Donovan out wide on either side, usually the right as Beasley takes the left. Because Beasley's gotten some time in Holland playing on the right, they can switch dynamically, something which Holland has often done and has been known to wreak havoc on the opposition. Donovan's a strong two-footed player.

The key isn't so much whether Donovan sets up everything from the middle as much as getting him into space. In games that are tight, his talent is wasted, he doesn't fight very well out of it, and when he has space he's the best player we have.

Depending on the situation, that leaves us in a situation like this:

Beasley-------------------------------------Donovan

-----------O'Brien------------Reyna-----------------

Or more of a flat 4.

[sidefootsitter]

Depending on the situation, that leaves us in a situation like this:

Beasley-------------------------------------Donovan

-----------O'Brien------------Reyna-----------------
That's a quintessential "box". The middle is filled by a mobile forward dropping back. Bruce like McBride to drop back because Brian will win his share of high balls. Usually however, you drop the smaller of the two forwards, if you play more on the ground.

[mschofield]

That and we have McBride to win a good share of them. For us it kinda makes sense.

Also, I know a lot of you don't like this, but I'm not adverse to lining up Donovan out wide on either side, usually the right as Beasley takes the left. Because Beasley's gotten some time in Holland playing on the right, they can switch dynamically, something which Holland has often done and has been known to wreak havoc on the opposition. Donovan's a strong two-footed player.

The key isn't so much whether Donovan sets up everything from the middle as much as getting him into space. In games that are tight, his talent is wasted, he doesn't fight very well out of it, and when he has space he's the best player we have.

Depending on the situation, that leaves us in a situation like this:

Beasley-------------------------------------Donovan

-----------O'Brien------------Reyna-----------------

Or more of a flat 4.I agree, about LD. I actually think he's best when he's not in the middle of things. He's not at his best up top, and he gets knocked around too much in the middle. Outside, skill comes out.

[rgli13]

two ways around a d-mid that make us better than any lineup WITH are- a box midfield with job and reyna behind beasley and donovan or a 3-5-2 with reyna and job in the back.

but using a 3-5-2 means using our imaginary right mid, so a box seems our best bet to me.

[csctn]

..... should we look at playing a flat 4-4-2 in preparation for WC '06?

We played a flat 4-4-2 against T&T last month during the first half.....but when JOB was replaced by Armas at the half, we went to a diamond 4-4-2.

[ty webb]

I hope we stick to a 4 man back line. I don't recall us playing well with three in the back too often. And, against WC quality sides I think we would give up too much space in the back.

We know the tactics will change from game to game with Bruce in charge of the squad. I think a flat, diamond, or box 4 4 2 will work. Bruce will probably use a 4 5 1 system if he feels we are over matched.

I think at this point our best system may be the box with following players. I also don't think Donovan is a forward.

-----------McBride----EJ
-----------Beasley----Donovan
-----------Reyna-----JOB
---Boca----Gooch-----Gibbs-----Dolo
----------------Keller

[obewan]

You are right about the TnT game - that one skipped my mind, probably since JOB was injured towards the end of the first half. The last time I remember it before then was in Korea '02.

We've proven the 4-5-1 doesn't work (Steve Sampson tried it out pretty poorly after qualifying with a 4-4-2, which played pretty well & Arena tried it unsuccessfully in Mexico City).

I've pondered the 3-5-2, but the primary concern here is the right wing. Although I like Q better than Ralston at this point in time, neither has proven (yet) they should be starting there in the WC.

If we ran a 3-5-2, could we line it up like this?

-------McBride---------GAM-------

--Beasley-----Reyna-----Donovan--

---------JOB-------Mastro---------

-----Lewis-----Gooch-----'Dolo----

---------------Keller--------------

[ty webb]

Obewan, I agree it is difficult to run the 4 5 1. However, I do think Bruce may use it in the WC against a top team (Brazil, Argentina, Holland, etc..). And, many teams around the world are able to use the system effectively. I think the key is the wingers have to push up and support the lone forward very quickly when winning the ball. Donavan and Beasley could fill this role.

I think your 3 5 2 is pretty good, but I don't think Lewis and Dolo are marking backs. I think we would have to use Gibbs and Bocanegra. But, any 3 man back line worries me.

If we ran a 3-5-2, could we line it up like this?

-------McBride---------GAM-------

--Beasley-----Reyna-----Donovan--

---------JOB-------Mastro---------

-----Lewis-----Gooch-----'Dolo----

---------------Keller--------------

[Slingerfan1977]

Beasley can play on the right with Lewis on the left in a 3-5-2 to fill the empty right side but I like Ty's 4-4-2 better.