America, Astrodome Updates

[anderson]

Today's Rumbo has another story about Javier Perez Teuffer and America's efforts about the Astrodome:

Perez Teuffer confirmed yesterday that he isn't an employee of America or Televisa, but is authorized to negotiate on behalf of the club to obtain a team in the US.

Perez Teuffer adds that there's nothing to say right now about the effort to bring America to Houston, but negotiations continue and he'll be back in town next week to continue those discussions.

Oliver Luck (CEO of the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority) confirms that the Harris County Sports & Convention Corp. will receive a proposal from the Astrodome Redevelopment Corp. on Thursday of this week (08/18) and if HCSCC doesn't find ARC's proposal satisfactory, then America could submit its proposal.

The article says that HCSCC will only take a couple of days to issue its decision about the ARC proposal. According to Luck, ARC would have no further opportunity.

Luck adds that America could play in the Astrodome for three years while a final decision about the Dome's long-term future is made.

Días cruciales para traer al América, Rumbo 08/17 (http://www.diariosrumbo.com/rumbo/articulo.asp?idart=248547&idcat=964)

[cristoforo7]

It's getting down to crunch time. Will there be MLS Soccer in the Astrodome in 2006? We should find out soon.

[yanks02]

Oooh this is getting all exciting! I hope we find out something soon. I hate this guessing game.

I have a question though. Is the Dome feasible to play in? I know it has all the luxuries of an indoor stadium, but would it be a turf field? I don't know if they have some type of grass they bring in to the stadium like they do Reliant. I just don't want to play on a turf field. Blech.

[anderson]

I have a question though. Is the Dome feasible to play in? I know it has all the luxuries of an indoor stadium, but would it be a turf field? I don't know if they have some type of grass they bring in to the stadium like they do Reliant. I just don't want to play on a turf field. Blech.The county reportedly spends about $1.5 million/yr to keep the Dome ready for its current uses - high school football playoffs, the occasional TSU football game, the Hideout for the Rodeo. It would need a new field, but the rest of the place is at least serviceable.

Grass trays may work if they can figure out how to keep it growing. They had grass there when it opened, but I've been told that it never really grew well even before they painted over the ceiling panels. Dunno. Grass trays would also need to make economic sense, including figuring out what to do with the ceiling panels.

I'd imagine FieldTurf would make sense. It's not ideal, but at least the Dome is air-conditioned and, of course, has a roof, so you wouldn't get that effect of the field getting so hot that players' feet get blisters like they experienced in Naperville and Southlake.

Saprissa's stadium in Costa Rica has FieldTurf and they've used it for WC quals. It actually looks pretty good and the ball seems to play reasonably well. We often think of the FieldTurf at Giants Stadium, but my understanding is that the field there plays the way it does because the NFL teams like it matted down and hard.

America reportedly sent its facility manager from the Azteca to evaluate the Dome, so they probably already have at least some basic ideas about what they could reasonably expect to get done in four or five months to get the place ready for 2006.

[cristoforo7]

I think MLS would require natural grass. Either via the tray system, or they scrape the paint off the translucent panels at the top of the dome. I wonder which option is less expensive.

That being said, FIFA has approved a specific brand of artificial turf. (Fieldturf?) But I don't think MLS will allow it anyway.

I find it interesting that America a.k.a. Teuffer is still actively pursuing the Astrodome (at least according to Teuffer and Luck), given AEG's recent comments that (1) it is not negotiating with "America" and (2) AEG itself is considering moving the Earthquakes to Houston.

We have been through the possibilities before: (1) AEG is not negotiating with "America" but is negotiating with "Televisa"; (2) America is doing its work for a 2007 expansion franchise; (3) America might make an offer for the Wizards and move them to Houston in 2006.

I also considered the possibility that Teuffer is also negotiating on behalf of AEG, in addition to or instead of America/Televisa, with respect to the Astrodome. Just in case America backs out and AEG decides to move the Earthquakes there. AEG could then step into America's shoes in the negotiations (in theory, at least). But I don't see Teuffer acting in that dual capacity-- unless there is some sort of behind-the-scenes cooperation between America and AEG that we don't know about.

AEG is probably waiting to see what happens with the ARC proposal, both in terms of (a) possibly moving the Quakes to Houston itself and, (b) possibly selling the Quakes to Televisa. Then AEG will make some kind of decision (if the Astrodome is an option).

Edit/P.S.: Posted before I saw Anderson's post. Excuse the redundancy re the field.

[scaryice]

That being said, FIFA has approved a specific brand of artificial turf. (Fieldturf?) But I don't think MLS will allow it anyway.

Uh, have you seen any Metrostars or Real Salt Lake games?

[cristoforo7]

OK, I take that back. MLS would probably allow it as a short term solution (3 or fewer years). MLS wouldn't allow it in a permanent SSS, IMO.

[cristoforo7]

One other possibility nobody has mentioned. AEG sells a portion of its interest in the Quakes to America (or Televisa) and they BOTH move the Quakes to Houston in 2006.

AEG's motivation would be to retain/gain control over a future Houston SSS for non-MLS events, while reducing some of the financial risk of being the sole investor/operator for the team and obtaining some cash towards the new Metrostars stadium.

[anderson]

AEG is probably waiting to see what happens with the ARC proposal, both in terms of (a) possibly moving the Quakes to Houston itself and, (b) possibly selling the Quakes to Televisa. Then AEG will make some kind of decision (if the Astrodome is an option).Yeah, I think everyone involved is probably in a holding pattern until HCSCC gives some kind of indication about the ARC proposal. The reporter, Gustavo Rangel, doesn't cite his source for the comment that HCSCC would only need a couple of days to decide on the ARC proposal, but he sandwiches that observation between two comments attributed to Luck, so make of that what you will.

Luck is definitely promoting the idea of the Astrodome as the short-term venue and Delmar as the long-term venue. If HCSCC surprises just about everyone by accepting the ARC proposal, then I don't know if Luck starts pushing Robertson Stadium at UH as the short-term venue. UH's athletic department could certainly use the cash, but it may not be as economically attractive to America (or AEG) as being the primary tenant in the Astrodome.

At least we'll know more about certain of the possibilities in the next few days. Días cruciales, indeed.

[anderson]

Oh well:

An investment company has obtained financing for a $450 million project that would transform the Astrodome into a 1,200-room convention hotel with a winding indoor waterway, county officials said today.

...

It won't happen unless Astrodome Redevelopment signs a letter of intent and Commissioners Court approves the project, said Mike Surface, chair of the Sports & Convention Corp. The company and the Sports and Convention Corp., he said, would be unlikely to work out a letter of intent before late this year or next year.

Scott Hanson, president of Astrodome Redevelopment, couldn't be reached for comment.Investment firm obtains funds to renovate Dome (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3315431)

[Blu N Houston]

Just think how America would look like with both Azteca and the Dome as their home fields. :D

[anderson]

Just think how America would look like with both Azteca and the Dome as their home fields. :DIt would be fun to see America make the place into a soccer AguilaDome, but ARC reportedly getting financing for their proposal is a setback for those efforts. Even if ARC's proposal doesn't ultimately succeed, it may take more than a couple of days for HCSCC to reach a decision, despite what Rumbo reported yesterday, and time's running out for the Dome in 2006.

Of course, if they're still interested, America may be able to work something out at Robertson. America has played there often and is already familiar with the facility. I believe America most recently played there in February of this year - drawing about 33,000 against Cruz Azul on a Wednesday night in which El Tri was also playing on TV.

At any rate, if the Dome is at least effectively out for purposes of moving a team there in 2006, then the rest of the pieces involving AEG, Televisa, and others may start falling into place fairly soon.

[cristoforo7]

I read the Chronicle article, and it doesn’t look very promising for MLS in the Astrodome in 2006. As you note, the time necessary to resolve the ARC proposal, regardless of its outcome, will very likely go beyond any self-imposed deadline for an MLS team to reach a deal for using the ‘dome in 2006.

Are there any other serious 2006 MLS options besides Robertson Stadium?

[anderson]

Are there any other serious 2006 MLS options besides Robertson Stadium?I don't think so.

Reliant may be an option for a couple of years, but it costs about $200,000 just to open the place for business. We've had long discussions in this forum about Reliant as a long-term venue that usually come down to the unfortunate economics of the place making it infeasible as an MLS solution. Maybe it could be more feasible as a short-term venue, but it doesn't start out looking very good. America or AEG or whoever would essentially have to conclude that losing that sort of money at Reliant for two or three years makes sense until Delmar or another long-term solution is ready. I suppose that you could reason that Reliant would enable you to attract more fans (particularly from the suburbs) than you could at Robertson. You still wouldn't attract enough fans to make the place economically feasible, but you may end up with a wider fan base when you finally move into the new stadium in a couple of years. But I'm not sure that the marginal gains would be worth it.

McNair's right of first refusal on MLS in Reliant expires at the end of December, so at least you wouldn't have to get his consent for 2006. Even so, Robertson just looks like it would make a lot more sense economically.

[anderson]

Just FYI from today's Chron:

Executives split on idea of Astrodome as a hotel (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3319644)Supporters of the plan say Houston eventually will need two convention hotels, though local hotels could suffer in the short term from the opening of another mammoth facility.

Critics say low occupancy already is the bane of downtown hotels and a convention hotel at the Dome would further hurt business at these establishments, including the Hilton Americas, the city-owned convention hotel next to the George R. Brown Convention Center.

"The Hilton Americas has enough problems in the long term. This would be like the nail in the coffin, for sure," said Bill Sharman, chair of Bayou Equities, whose holdings include the Lancaster Hotel downtown.

...

A rule of thumb in the lodging business holds that a nightly hotel room rate is set at 0.1 percent of the cost of building a room.

Based on that formula, the Dome's room rate would be $375 a night, greatly exceeding the average room rate in Houston of less than $100, Johnson said.

[ElJefe]

Just FYI from today's Chron:

Executives split on idea of Astrodome as a hotel (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3319644)
That last part might be what ends up killing the deal in HCSCC's eyes, and it's always been my big concern. How are they going to make money in this venture?

Sure, they're also going to have retail there, but they're going to have really great occupancy in their retail space, as well as high hotel occupancy, to make the numbers work and make it a profitable venture.

If the venture goes under, does the county end up holding the bag yet again? Considering that they're still paying for the renovations that they made for Bud Adams in the late '80s, they might decide that financing aside, there's still too high if a chance that it would end up costing the taxpayers more than it's currently costing.

[cfstansell]

Why is Reliant not an option? Is it just too big and expensive not to hold MLS games there due to the smaller crowd? Certainly the previous soccer games, including a 69,000 + fan crowd at the USA/Mexico were nice, I was there (and it was just a 'friendly' game). The next Mexico/USA game coming up in a smaller stadium 20K+, sold out to general public in 20 minutes the first day and they probably could have had a sellout of 70,000 if it were in Houston/Reliant instead. I know MLS games would have a much smaller crowd, so I guess that's the rub.

BTW, I can't believe the Astrodome hotel idea can fly. If they have to charge $300+ per room/night, I don't think it's going to happen. And the shopping part sounds interesting, but it'll cost you $5 to park to shop there, unless they change the system and have some kind of validation. Right now you pay when you pull in the lots. Shopping/hotel idea sounds like someones wet dream to me.

[anderson]

Why is Reliant not an option? Is it just too big and expensive not to hold MLS games there due to the smaller crowd? Certainly the previous soccer games, including a 69,000 + fan crowd at the USA/Mexico were nice, I was there (and it was just a 'friendly' game). The next Mexico/USA game coming up in a smaller stadium 20K+, sold out to general public in 20 minutes the first day and they probably could have had a sellout of 70,000 if it were in Houston/Reliant instead. I know MLS games would have a much smaller crowd, so I guess that's the rub.Pretty much. It costs about $200,000 just to open the place for business. Jamey Rootes (former Crew GM who's now a Texans VP and runs Lone Star Sports & Entertainment, the Texans' business responsible for bringing non-NFL events to Reliant) is apparently consulting on the effort to bring an MLS team to Houston, so the Reliant option has probably already been evaluated. Even though the economics of Reliant wouldn't make sense for an MLS team in the long term, it's not inconceivable that someone could still conclude that the losses are acceptable for two or three years while a long-term venue is developed.

But I'm not sure you'd be willing to take the hit at Reliant if you could also do a deal at Robertson that's more economically reasonable. You'd probably draw more suburban fans to Reliant than you would at Robertson, but would the marginal gains be worth it? You may also lose some fans by probably having to charge at least somewhat higher ticket prices at Reliant than at Robertson. Reliant may be more feasible as a short-term option than as a long-term solution, but Robertson still probably makes more sense economically.

BTW, I can't believe the Astrodome hotel idea can fly. If they have to charge $300+ per room/night, I don't think it's going to happen. And the shopping part sounds interesting, but it'll cost you $5 to park to shop there, unless they change the system and have some kind of validation. Right now you pay when you pull in the lots. Shopping/hotel idea sounds like someones wet dream to me.I suspect this ARC proposal will eventually die a long, slow death. We'll probably see more articles like the one linked above discussing the economic impact of an additional 1,200 rooms in an already over-saturated market. There's also a downtown political lobby that will do everything it can to kill this thing off.

If HCSCC can get over its natural lethargy, then they could still work out a deal for an MLS team to play in the Astrodome at least in 2006, and possibly in 2007, while the ARC proposal gets finally ironed out (or dies out, as the case may be).

[anderson]

Today's Rumbo has an update on America's efforts to play in the Astrodome in 2006 following the recent ARC proposal to convert the stadium into a massive new hotel complex.

HCSCC directors met on Wednesday with Javier Perez Teuffer and Juan de Villafranca, who represent America in the negotiations to bring the team to Houston.

HCSCC informed Perez Teuffer and Villafranca about ARC's proposal, but the possibility remains open that a team could play in the Astrodome in 2006.

Ken Garner, director of operations for HCSCC, says that a team could play there while the architectural plans, permits, and other details for the ARC proposal are worked out.

Villafranca says that America has not ruled out playing in the Astrodome and will continue to negotiate with the county over the next several days.

Oliver Luck added that other possibilities exist, including Robertson Stadium, Reliant Stadium, and, in the long-term, a new stadium for soccer.

Las Águilas andan en busca de nido (http://www.diariosrumbo.com/rumbo/articulo.asp?idart=252616&idcat=964)

[cristoforo7]

HCSCC directors met on Wednesday with Javier Perez Teuffer and Juan de Villafranca, who represent America in the negotiations to bring the team to Houston.


HCSCC informed Perez Teuffer and Villafranca about ARC's proposal, but the possibility remains open that a team could play in the Astrodome in 2006.


Ken Garner, director of operations for HCSCC, says that a team could play there while the architectural plans, permits, and other details for the ARC proposal are worked out.


Villafranca says that America has not ruled out playing in the Astrodome and will continue to negotiate with the county over the next several days.


Oliver Luck added that other possibilities exist, including Robertson Stadium, Reliant Stadium, and, in the long-term, a new stadium for soccer.
Interesting that Villafranca is there together with Perez Teuffer. They definitely haven't given up (although this visit was planned before the announcement of the new ARC proposal).

Interesting that the discussions are now between Televisa and HCSCC, whereas almost all of the previous media reporting mentioned discussions with the HCSHA.

It had seemed to me there was a disconnect between the HCSCC and the HCSHA about the Astrodome (and maybe other issues). However, maybe this latest report indicates they are now working together regarding the Astrodome.

I assume the reference to the "next several days" means that Villafranca and Perez-Teuffer will be in town for the next several days and will negotiate during their stay. There is no way there will be an Astrodome lease deal signed in the "next several days"!

Not only is there the uncertainty of the ARC proposal, AEG has publicly stated that it is not negotiating with Club America/Televisa and would like to move the Earthquakes itself. So it would be astounding to see any kind of Astrodome deal (for 2006) being made with Televisa. AEG maybe, 2007 maybe, but 2006 with Televisa sounds like a pipe dream.

Perhaps the good guys at HCSCC and HCHSA are just being polite in hosting Villafranca and Perez Teuffer for the next several days during their previously arranged visit (and looking ahead to 2007 and/or other venues).

I still think the real action for 2006, if it happens, is going to be between AEG and U. of H.