2006 USMNT With Less Technical Ability?

[LuckyNat]

Did anybody see Tommy Smyth on ESPN last night? He posited that the U.S. might have a bit more trouble in Germany (vs J/K) because the USMNT was less technically proficient than before. Huh? I don't get it. Not that they're significantly more skilled, but less ?

Am I blinded by my passion for the current team?

[Jeff Wyatt]

I think Tommy is slightly off on this one. Agoos, Sanneh, Hejduk, and a four years younger Mastro, Beas, and Donovan. We'll call McBride a push, but a major upgrade of Johnson over Wolff and Mathis. This side will be technically more proficient than the 2002 squad. The question is how well will they be able to play as a team.

[Heathens '87]

Not having heard him, I think he may be looking at the loss of guys like Cobi Jones, Stewart, Joe-Max Moore, Mathis, and Friedel, and wondering if we've truly developed players to not only step into those roles, but provide the team with leadership. Most people, Smyth included, tend to equate "veteran" with "technically skilled," but I believe that's a mistake. We are a far more talented team in terms of basic soccer skills, even if we are a bit younger.

We've not shown the form in qualifying that we'll need to do well in Germany. The point of qualifying is to qualify. We'll do that, and then we can begin preperations for Germany. Most important is that we've had to rely on our depth to do well in qualifying, and that just wasn't possible in 2001, 1997, 1993, etc... We are a far deeper team than we've ever been.

WC02 fell together nicely for the US, with good play, a few breaks, and teams taking us lightly. That is highly unlikely to happen again to that degree. We're going to have to truly work for everything we get this time around. Sure, OK, we can deal with that.....

What everyone has to remember is that once we qualify, the playing rotation will become solidified, starters will be pressured to earn those roles, the focus will turn to minimizing errors while capitalizing on mistakes, and the WC team will come together.

Where Smyth fails is that he shouldn't be comparing the USMNT 2005 to WC02, but to the USMNT of 2001. We're a far better team than that squad, with nearly a year to go to get ready. We're also better than the WC02 squad already, but that doesn't mean we'll do better in terms of performance than that team. Too many variables.

But to fail to see the advances of the USMNT is just plain ignorant.......don't be side-tracked by such foolishness.

[SetPeace]

Did anybody see Tommy Smyth on ESPN last night? He posited that the U.S. might have a bit more trouble in Germany (vs J/K) because the USMNT was less technically proficient than before. Huh? I don't get it. Not that they're significantly more skilled, but less ?

Am I blinded by my passion for the current team?


I saw most of Tommy's interview. He admitted that the U.S. have a good team, but they won't be able to sneak up on anybody in 2006 like they did in 2002 in Asia. They've lost that "mystique" quality since other teams probably won't take them so lightly this time around.

On the quality side of things, Smyth said the United States didn't strike him as a "technically" good side compared to 2002. He did say they were much more athletic this time around--meaning they have individuals that have the stamina to stay on the field for longer periods of time.

He went on to say that a tournament like the World Cup with several games in a short window of days can really come down to many intangibles such as injuries, fatigue, missed or bad calls by officials, and luck. Based on that, it's all a crap shoot!

Having seen the interview and heard his comments, I agree with him that we have the athleticism and depth to make a nice run. But, our quality of play can be frightful at times. Many fans commented on how poorly we seemed to pass the ball compared to England in that May friendly in Chicago. The speed of play can be a detriment, and we don't play a particularly fast or slick game of soccer compared to teams like Brazil, Italy, Germany, or Argentina. On top of that, our finishing has been frustratingly suspect during some of our WCQ's plus games in the Gold Cup. Granted, we haven't had a full complement of players for these matches, but other countries are in that boat too.

I'm curious to see what the makeup of the U.S. side will be in June in Germany, and how it all plays out. There is a lot of soccer to be played between now and then, and many guys will play themselves onto the squad and could get knocked off due to injury or poor play. It's doubtful that France would have been as poor in 2002 if it had a healthy Zinidine Zidane, for example. That raises the question of Eddie Johnson's health. He's great when he plays, but he's been sidelined so long that it makes one wonder how healthy and effective he will be in the build-up to WC 2006.

Then again, look at 2001. Costa Rica won CONCACAF while Mexico and the U.S. went to the last day of play in the hex to secure a spot to Japan/Korea. Of the 3, Costa Rica failed to get out of the group stage (but didn't play poorly). The U.S. just scraped through the group stage, then beat fellow CONCACAFer's Mexico (a group winner) to make the quarterfinals.

All in all, Tommy Smyth's comments were OK for me. As the English say, "it's a funny old game", so we'll see what happens!

[JohnR]

Let's see ... 2002 vs. my guess for 2006

McBride vs. McBride - draw
Landon vs. EJ - edge to Landon
JOB vs. Landon - edge to JOB
DMB vs. DMB - draw
Stewart vs. whomever - draw?
Pablo vs. Pablo - draw
Sanneh vs. Cherundolo - edge to Stevie
Frankie vs. anybody - anybody
center backs - whatever
GK - whatever

Nah, I don't see it. Looks pretty much the same to me. And yeah I left Reyna/Mathis out last time & Reyna/JOB out this time because I didn't know where exactly to put those guys, but obviously that is a draw too.

We'll improve significantly technically when Freddy Adu gets in the mix and our defenders get better on the ball. Until then, probably a holding pattern.

[mickhayafe]

Frankie vs. anybody - anybody

I got a kick out of this one. :)

News people like to talk, he's looking at the world as a whole, I don't think he's disecting every team, as is done on USMNT BS, I don't know where he gets his info from. Maybe he saw the GC final and thats where, who knows?

[superdave]

Let's see ... 2002 vs. my guess for 2006

McBride vs. McBride - draw
Landon vs. EJ - edge to Landon
JOB vs. Landon - edge to JOB
DMB vs. DMB - draw
Stewart vs. whomever - draw?
Pablo vs. Pablo - draw
Sanneh vs. Cherundolo - edge to Stevie
Frankie vs. anybody - anybody
center backs - whatever
GK - whatever
You're right, if you break it down, Smyth is wrong, but he's not crazy wrong.

Agoos and Pope were more technical (not better, but more technical) than alot of potential centerback pairings.

And DMB is more technical now than he was then, so I wouldn't count that as a draw. OTOH, Stewart was probably more technical than anyone we're gonna put at right mid, unless it's Reyna.

Finally, I think McBride's far more technical than he was in '02.

By my "count," without counting the centerbacks, it's 4-3-1 for the likely '06 roster. And I only get that by saying McBride has improved his technique. And with a centerback pairing of Gibbs and Pope (hey, it could happen) that swings it back to the '02 team.

But that's just strictly counting. The margins for the '06 guys are pretty big, esp. Stevie C., DMB, and left back. The margins for the '02 guys (Landon of 02 over EJ, JOB of 02 over Landon today) are pretty small.

[LuckyNat]

I feel better already...I challenge anybody to make an informed argument that '02 team was better technically than a projected '06 roster will be.

[DutchFootballRulez]

You mean Bruce is going to name someone to be the "2006 version of David Regis"!? :eek:

Actually. JohnR you've forgotten Gooch, Bocanegra, Convey, Howard and Quaranta. And possibly Dempsey and Gaven on an outside chance.

[sidefootsitter]

2.002--------------- 2,006 (going off Portugal game)

Friedel---------------Keller - a tie

Frankie ------------- a projected leftback (Spector or Lewis?) ==> 2,006

Mastroeni ----------- Mastroeni ====> 2,006

Jeff Agoos ---------- Cory Gibbs ====> a tie

Tony Saneh -------- Cherundolo ====> a tie

Eddie Pope --------- Onyewu ======> 2,006

John O'Brien -------- JOB ========> a tie, maybe 2,006

Ernie Stewart ----- Quaranta =====> a tie, maybe 2,006

DMB --------- DMB =======> 2,006 BIG

Donovan-----Donovan =====> a tie, maybe 2,006

McBride -----McBride ======> 2,006

The difference is in back-ups

Reyna = Reyna.

Eddie Johnson is a huge improvement over Josh Wolff. I think whoever will end up being a back-up target forward will be an improvement over the non-existent back-up to BMB. Brian West, Jeff Cunningham and Pat Noonan, whoever is selected, will be an improvement over a back-up to an off-forward, JMM, who did not play. Bobby Convey as a back-up mid is a tie with Clint Mathis, maybe better after a full season with Reading.

So, the US will have a far superior bench with superior starters skillswise.

To me, the best comparison are teams like Costa Rica and Honduras. Back in 2,001, the US really struggled against them. Currently, with top rosters for both teams, it's almost expected to be a cakewalk. That is not due to the better athletes alone.

[sokol]

The only spot on the field where I see a technical downgrade is by playing Eddie Johnson instead of Mathis. Mathis is one of the most skilled players the US has ever had, but not much of an athlete. Johnson is an amazing athlete with very good skills. Overall it's an upgrade but as far as who's better with the ball on his feet, it's Mathis. Also, I think Tommy Smythe was maybe forgetting about John O'Brien, who has nearly flawless technical abilities but hasn't been part of the team until now. John O'Brien and Clint Mathis probably do make the US a better team technically than the team that's been playing for the last two years, but by 2006 JOB will be back in good form (knock on woood), and the team will likely be without guys like Armas, Sanneh, and Hejduk to be replaced by guys like Onyewu, Cherundolo, and possibly Gavan or Quaranta. This makes the team as a whole better technically than the 2002 team.

[mickhayafe]

Also, I think Tommy Smythe was maybe forgetting about John O'Brien, who has nearly flawless technical abilities but hasn't been part of the team until now.

So, he didn't do his homework

[JohnR]

Actually. JohnR you've forgotten Gooch, Bocanegra, Convey, Howard and Quaranta. And possibly Dempsey and Gaven on an outside chance.

Didn't forget about them. Just skipped 'em. Gooch & Boca might start but one center defender, another defender, I couldn't be bothered, as none of 'em are real technical. The other guys you mention are all long shots to start.

[NASL Fan]

I've never liked that Tommy Smyth and his "onion bag" routine. I think he's talking out of the side of his mouth, and is basing his comments on the US team he saw in the Gold Cup, without really realizing or thinking that what he was seeing was in some ways an experimental squad. (Three of four of the guys who played key roles in the Panama-final didn't even make the team: Dempsey, Davis, etc).

Having said that, the comments reported here about the fickle nature of the World Cup are absolutely correct.

But our team is more technically skilled than ever before. Beasley 2005 is three times the player of 2002: the guy's played in the Champion's League now for Chrissakes.... Oneywu is technically superior to Agoos any day, any night, on grass or mud, sand or astroturf.

[NBlue]

What's funny about this is that I actually see us having more technical ability but less athleticism than we had four years ago. Specifically, I don't think that BMB, JOB or Pope will be at the same level athletically that they were for the '02 cup though one could argue that McBride, at least, is a more technical player. Moreover, I think the shift from Stewart to Lewis certainly lessens our athleticism but increases our technical ability. That said, I would concede we are more athletic in the back with the addition of players such as Gooch and Gibbs.

[sidefootsitter]

What's funny about this is that I actually see us having more technical ability but less athleticism than we had four years ago. Specifically, I don't think that BMB, JOB or Pope will be at the same level athletically that they were for the '02 cup though one could argue that McBride, at least, is a more technical player. Moreover, I think the shift from Stewart to Lewis certainly lessens our athleticism but increases our technical ability. That said, I would concede we are more athletic in the back with the addition of players such as Gooch and Gibbs. Eddie Johnson will be far more athletic than whoever else the US had there in 2,002. The midfield (a minor presumption here) of Beasley-Donovan-Quaranta is extraordinarily athletic. Onyewu and Gibbs in the back have the size-speed requirement from the top teams.

The rotation/bench is deeper, much much deeper, as well.

[NBlue]

Eddie Johnson will be far more athletic than whoever else the US had there in 2,002. The midfield (a minor presumption here) of Beasley-Donovan-Quaranta is extraordinarily athletic. Onyewu and Gibbs in the back have the size-speed requirement from the top teams.

The rotation/bench is deeper, much much deeper, as well.


Agree wrt EJ, assuming he can regain his health. If you assume that to be our midfield I would agree but it is far from assured that Tino will start.

[Enge]

2.002--------------- 2,006 (going off Portugal game)

Friedel---------------Keller - a tie

Frankie ------------- a projected leftback (Spector or Lewis?) ==> 2,006

Mastroeni ----------- Mastroeni ====> 2,006

Jeff Agoos ---------- Cory Gibbs ====> a tie

Tony Saneh -------- Cherundolo ====> a tie

Eddie Pope --------- Onyewu ======> 2,006

John O'Brien -------- JOB ========> a tie, maybe 2,006

Ernie Stewart ----- Quaranta =====> a tie, maybe 2,006

DMB --------- DMB =======> 2,006 BIG

Donovan-----Donovan =====> a tie, maybe 2,006

McBride -----McBride ======> 2,006

The difference is in back-ups

Reyna = Reyna.

Eddie Johnson is a huge improvement over Josh Wolff. I think whoever will end up being a back-up target forward will be an improvement over the non-existent back-up to BMB. Brian West, Jeff Cunningham and Pat Noonan, whoever is selected, will be an improvement over a back-up to an off-forward, JMM, who did not play. Bobby Convey as a back-up mid is a tie with Clint Mathis, maybe better after a full season with Reading.

So, the US will have a far superior bench with superior starters skillswise.

To me, the best comparison are teams like Costa Rica and Honduras. Back in 2,001, the US really struggled against them. Currently, with top rosters for both teams, it's almost expected to be a cakewalk. That is not due to the better athletes alone.

This is a pretty good breakdown. I'd take Gibbs/Dolo over 2002 Sanneh/Agoos (Jeff, bless his heart, was in way over his head in 2002). I'm not convinced yet JOB is back to full strength, but it will be great if he gets there. LD is definitely better now than then. BMB is getting older, and I would not expect him to be as good as he was last time around. Quaranta needs to prove more to me, Stewart was awesome for an awfully long time.

On balance, we should have a better team next time. In the past, we were always the kind of team opposing coaches hate. No history or reputation to fire up the team, but good enough to be very dangerous if you don't play well against them. Just ask Portugal. I doubt we will have that advantage next time, and we'll also have the downside of playing good Euro teams which for them will essentially be home games. If we get as far as we did last time, we should be very happy. We should be thrilled if we go farther.

[voros]

Did anybody see Tommy Smyth on ESPN last night? He posited that the U.S. might have a bit more trouble in Germany (vs J/K) because the USMNT was less technically proficient than before. Huh? I don't get it. Not that they're significantly more skilled, but less ?
Actually he has a point. We could have a more technically proficient team, Arena has chosen not to go in that direction.

In fact the standard starting lineup could include nothing but guys who made the 2002 World Cup squad except in defense. Reyna, O'Brien, Beasley, Mastroeni, McBride, Donovan.

[superdave]

In fact the standard starting lineup could include nothing but guys who made the 2002 World Cup squad except in defense. Reyna, O'Brien, Beasley, Mastroeni, McBride, Donovan.
OK, but you cheated...the only way that happens is Johnson is injured.