Injury "what if"s

[ports485]

Let's stop the doom and gloom hypothetical scenarios of "what if" so and so gets injured. Yes, if Henry, Gilberto, and Fabregas were all struck with season-ending injuries, it would probably be a disaster of a season and we could go trophy-less. But it's not like we're alone in that, how do you think Chelsea would look if any 3 of Terry, Lampard, Makelele and Robben were out for a long time? Not too sure about you guys but I don't fear the likes of Jarosik going against our midfield. If Manchester United lost Ferdinand, Ronaldo and Rooney they'd be trash too.

Other clubs' depths are over-stated. Chelsea have a great surplus of defenders and wingers but if they don't get Essien they could be hurting in central midfield (offloading Smertin and Parker while keeping Tiago and Jarosik may end up being a killer mistake) and they only have 3 proven strikers. United have the most depth but it's not quality depth.

[Neo¹]

Edu, flamini, and gilberto were injured for much of last season. And now weve lost 2 players in that position. What if Flamini and Gilberto were injured? Would Cesc have to play every single game? "Ifs and whats" is what this board is about. If you cant speculate about the current squad what elese are we supposed to do here?

[ports485]

Edu, flamini, and gilberto were injured for much of last season. And now weve lost 2 players in that position. What if Flamini and Gilberto were injured? Would Cesc have to play every single game? "Ifs and whats" is what this board is about. If you cant speculate about the current squad what elese are we supposed to do here?

I guess speculation is fine, it's the negativity and pessimism that really bothers me. And the victim mentality that injuries could ONLY happen to us.

Just to counter your point, if Makelele and Lampard were injured, Diarra and Tiago could be playing ever game. I don't see the difference between us and them.

[Neo¹]

I guess speculation is fine, it's the negativity and pessimism that really bothers me. And the victim mentality that injuries could ONLY happen to us.

LOL

I dont know about playing the victim, or being a pessimist. but Ive made it no secret that I would like to be on par with our European rivals, interms of depth.

Just to counter your point, if Makelele and Lampard were injured, Diarra and Tiago could be playing ever game. I don't see the difference between us and them.


Doesent Geremi still play for Chelsea? Jorisik? Cole could also play in that role. They also most likely will get essien. They could also recall Alexi Smirtin. If you dont see the difference, you must be blind. (no offence)

[ports485]

LOL

I dont know about playing the victim, or being a pessimist. but Ive made it no secret that I would like to be on par with our European rivals, interms of depth.



Doesent Geremi still play for Chelsea? Jorisik? Cole could also play in that role. They also most likely will get essien. They could also recall Alexi Smirtin. If you dont see the difference, you must be blind. (no offence)

We can't afford to spend £10 million on squad players like they do, we can't afford a squad of 25 quality seasoned professionals. So we're never going to be at their level of depth across the board.

I forgot about Geremi, but not about Jarosik and Cole. By my reckoning, Chelsea's first choice midfield 3 is Makelele, Lampard and Cole. Jarosik is below Tiago and Diarra in the pecking order, of that I'm certain. Tiago's the most similar to Lampard and Diarra's most similar to Makelele, so they'd be the two most likely replacements to avoid switching tactics or formations. If Essien doesn't come then Cole will most likely be a regular starter.

I'm not sure but I don't think Smertin can be recalled until January, so that's not a lot different to us having to buy someone in January if there are injuries to our CMs.

My point is, in midfield, at the moment, Arsenal and Chelsea seem to be on similar levels in depth.

[ports485]

My other point was that the 2 or 3 long term injuries to ANY club's most vital players would probably derail their championship ambitions.

[Neo¹]

My point is, in midfield, at the moment, Arsenal and Chelsea seem to be on similar levels in depth.


I disagree.


My other point was that the 2 or 3 long term injuries to ANY club's most vital players would probably derail their championship ambitions.

Yes but only if they dont have players waiting in line to fill that role. Barca had 2 CM that got crucial long term injuries, motta and edmilson. The only reason they were able to win the title is because they had depth in those positions.

Gilberto just got back from injury and there is not gurantee that he will be fit this season, if we lost Cesc and Gilberto we would have to play with Flamini and Hleb this whole season. What if Hleb got injured mid season? Who would we play then in midfield?

We need at least one more CM before the transfer window is up. He doesent even have to be a superstar. We just someone experienced who can fill that role when we need him. Every team has a player like that. ie. Ambrosini at AC Milan, Cambiasso at Inter, Albertini at Barca or even Ray Parlour when he was with us.

Unless you want Arsenal to run themselves into the ground this season, we need depth.

[jpatel1508]

The only what if that we only need to worry about is the Henry one. If our tailsman has a season ending injury, we would be literally f.u.cked.

[SnipersBreath]

You guys forgot Sanderos. If Senderos is injured like he was a year ago, then as you said "We are done", cause we all know Campbell's gonna be injured all season and Le Boss is not buyin' any CB's this summer...

[Cannon]

My point is, in midfield, at the moment, Arsenal and Chelsea seem to be on similar levels in depth.

You have to stop drinking before posting, ok? :rolleyes:

Yes, if you take away any team's best player then that team will suffer. That is so obvious that I'm amazed how many times people feel the need to mention it here. Pretty much everyone concerned about our depth knows that fact. That doesn't mean that all teams are somehow equal in depth.

We have one dmid that has proved himself at the highest level. After that we have kids, talented kids I admit, but still just kids. The emergence of kids like Cesc and Senderos is great but relying on them to win back the league, defend the FA Cup, and get further in Europe looks like a stretch to me. I'm hoping Wenger can work his magic but we're going to need a good amount of luck in terms of injuries or this team's limited depth will hurt us.

Pretending that we've got depth on par with Chelsea is just silly.

[ports485]

Yes but only if they dont have players waiting in line to fill that role. Barca had 2 CM that got crucial long term injuries, motta and edmilson. The only reason they were able to win the title is because they had depth in those positions.

You do recall they had to get Albertini im January don't you? They also had to move Marquez from CB to DM to replace Edmilson, and with Motta, Edmilson, Gerard, and Gabri all out, they were very bare in midfield. They had horrendous luck with injuries and their savior was Marquez making a transition to midfield, it wasn't having great depth. If Marquez, Xavi, Iniesta, or Deco had gotten hurt before January, they would have had to call up teenagers (and certainly not the same quality as Fabregas) from their B squad. Most of their midfielders were playing 90 minutes every match.

Gilberto just got back from injury and there is not gurantee that he will be fit this season, if we lost Cesc and Gilberto we would have to play with Flamini and Hleb this whole season. What if Hleb got injured mid season? Who would we play then in midfield?

You're asking what would we do if three players in the same position got injured? Well we'd be pretty much ****ed. So would any team who lost three players in any position. Would Chelsea lose a bunch if Makelele, Lampard and Joe Cole got hurt? Yes. Would we lose a lot if Gilberto, Fabregas, and Hleb got hurt? Yes.

OMG OMG, what if Ashley Cole got hurt and then Clichy got hurt? Then we'd be screwwwwwwed. Let's rush out and buy another left-back, ANY left-back. We need 3 players in every position to be safe. :rolleyes:

You have to stop drinking before posting, ok? :rolleyes:

Yes, if you take away any team's best player then that team will suffer. That is so obvious that I'm amazed how many times people feel the need to mention it here. Pretty much everyone concerned about our depth knows that fact. That doesn't mean that all teams are somehow equal in depth.

We have one dmid that has proved himself at the highest level. After that we have kids, talented kids I admit, but still just kids. The emergence of kids like Cesc and Senderos is great but relying on them to win back the league, defend the FA Cup, and get further in Europe looks like a stretch to me. I'm hoping Wenger can work his magic but we're going to need a good amount of luck in terms of injuries or this team's limited depth will hurt us.

Pretending that we've got depth on par with Chelsea is just silly.

Well considering their depth is Tiago, Jarosik and co. I sure don't think it's quality. I'd take Flamini and Hleb in the middle of the park over Tiago and Jarosik any day of the week. They may have more numbers, but they have a much larger drop-off in quality. I agree another central midfielder is our highest priority, but I don't think an emergency buy is going to help the club in the long term.

Have some faith, boys.

[Milkman]

I agree with Neo on this debate.

Our depth is extremely shallow right now. When you're talking about only three regular CMs and a club that plays two matches a week during Champions League, we are walking a very thin tightrope. If we lose one of those three CMs we're down to skeleton crew and considering switching players' positions. The other big clubs don't have those dilemmas.

Our final point total last year was hurt by injuries, and this year we're even more vulnerable...

[ports485]

Look, I AGREE we need another central midfielder. Completely agree. But I prefer to buy a promising youngster rather than an emergency purchase just to make up the numbers.

What do I disagree with? Neo claiming Chelsea would be fine even if their 3 most vital players (Lampard, Makelele, Terry) got hurt because they have such great depth. Just because they have players to fill in doesn't mean their hopes of winning the Premiership wouldn't still be crushed by 3 crucial injuries (just as ours would, or anyone else's). Tiago and Geremi would probably fill in for Lampard and Makelele, that's a SEVERE drop-off in quality. Without Terry, Chelsea's defense would be leaderless. They'd ship goals for fun.

[Milkman]

Again, you could say that (lose your three best players and lose any chance of the title) about any team, any year. The point is we cannot sustain even one injury in central midfield during the weeks when we have a League match on Saturday, a Champions League match on Wednesday, and a League match again on Saturday.

Yes, in practice we could still play, but we would have to switch players out of their natural positions to cover CM. The other big clubs don't have to consider hasty switches and skeleton crews. They have enough senior players in all positions to account for injuries, rest, and three games in an eight day period... we don't.

I hate to say it but if we don't pick up some CM cover before end of August we're attempting to whistle past the graveyard with three CMs.

[Rewinder]

An interesting FSC article (http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3870848)

There is a difference between pessimism and realism, and id rather we had a healthy realism, rather than a blind optimism.

Can our squad realistically do better than chelsea over the stretch of a 38 game league punctuated by 20 or more cl/cup games? Probably not. It was a bit of a stretch before, its even moreso now that we are without one of the worlds best midfielders.

With our shoddy backline we need our central midfield to be excellent defensively, which currently only gilberto is. Despite how good they are, Cesc and flamini ARE NOT yet up the challenger of taking on a performing lampard/maka/keane/gerrard or most teams we may come up against in europe. Fabregas is easily the smallest player on the pitch, and will get roughed around over the season. Flamini is excellent for his age, but he is not up to the level of the worlds best.

I have full confidence that wenger could still use his peashooter to beat chelseas tank head-to-head, but thats not the battle here. We play chelsea , and then 18 other teams plus CL games. With the depth chelsea has, they will always be able to field players in better condition than ours later on. If senderos or toure take a knock or get a suspension it looks liek we are already down to cygan. Flamini and gilberto are the only real dms we have, if either is gone, its going to become very painful for our defense.

True fans will point out their teams flaws now, instead of waiting till december and saying, we really should have fixed that.

How do we fix it? I dont know, wenger said he doesnt know of anyone worth spending the money on, no one here seems to know who we should be buying, so i guess we just have to try and do the best we can with what we have. Realistically that means 2nd in the league, which is not a disappointing position by any standards. Maybe we can focus more on the cl this year, that would be good too.

[Milkman]

I was just going to post that column Rewinder. Good one.

Obviously it's not pleasant reading but I think it's fairly on the mark.

I agree with what you said, except that just because we don't know, because we're not scouts, whom to buy doesn't mean Arsenal shouldn't acquire a senior level CM. I'll admit that some people on here watch other leagues and can rattle off names I've not heard of as possibilities and that's great but I just don't know them. But that's why the franchise has scouts and can point someone out. This is a pretty critical need for us right now.

[ports485]

"at the moment the Gunners don't have the physical presence to take that area by the scruff of the neck. With Newcastle's Jermaine Jenas supposedly available for fifteen million large ones though, that problem could be solved pronto."

Nick Webster IS joking.....right?

Since when does Jenas provide such great "physical presence"?

[Rewinder]

i always thought nick webster was a bit of a douche

[Cannon]

i always thought nick webster was a bit of a douche
Agreed.

That article made it sound like Cesc and Flamini were played off the pitch. Sorry but that simply isn't what happened. Other than a couple of odd runs, we actually held up fine in the center of midfield. This could be because Chelsea chose to simply bypass the midfield with their long ball tactics or because Cesc and Flamini took Lampard out of his game. I think it was a bit of both. Chelsea used their midfield to harass us while we had possession and played very defensivly especially after the early Drogba goal. There was little action to judge whether Cesc and Flamini could have stood up to a Chelsea midfield trying to chase the game. Webster must have watched a different game. He is too football analysis what Bretos is to calling games. :rolleyes:

I think Cesc and Flamini did ok with Flamini clearly the worse of the two and obviously should be replaced by Gilberto next week. However, I still think we need to bring in a quality dmid because Flamini is insufficient cover for Gilberto in terms of quanitity and quality. We're not talking about an "emergency buy" here but rather a smart reaction to the loss of two CM players since the season ended.

[michaec]

Fabregas and Flamini have played against Chelsea together twice now (last season at Highbury in the Premiership as well) and have done just fine against vastly more experienced players. I agree that Gilberto should start on Sunday and I'll be amazed if he doesn't. Jenas isn't even close to the quality needed to compete at the really top level, any money spent on him would be a waste.