SE Florida pro team ???

[leca]

Surely with all the "expansion" talk, seFlorida shoud be back on the candidate list.
seFlorida proved, even under mismanagement and
great blunders that 11,000 fans will come out.
Considering the present markets, and SSS, also
the gimmicks to get fans at games, and the
"markets" on Garbers wish list...seFlorida would
be easily in the middle of the pack.
16-17,000 butts in the seats is easily attainable,
under good management.

22,000 SSS .... in place

MLS envisioned demographics...in place

Rich soccer heritage... in place

One of the largest, all year playng youth leagues...in place

VISION & KNOWLEDGE of the market by MLS execs
.......NOT in PLACE

SMART OWNER... WANTED

WP Beach to Miami Beach, 65 miles with
4,500.000 of the richest soccer heritage
population in the nation.

[JacksonJazz#9]

Like when miami/dade county freezes over.

no way will MLS go in there for quite a while. they cant risk it. unless there is someone that is going to pony up some big bucks and deep pockets to run that team.

i wish u luck, but nat gadda dew it

[fusionmansteve]

this league will go to homer, alaska if someone shows them the money...hit the lotto and you too can have MLS in your own backyard

[leca]

100% correct, they got 20 mil from Horrorwitz, and they let us out to dry..

They got the $$$$$ (mls) and forgot to work.

FUSION 2001, The best team for the $$$$ EVER
in mls. CONTRACTED but not duplicated.

[CoachRiver]

Originally posted by JacksonJazz#9
Like when miami/dade county freezes over.

no way will MLS go in there for quite a while. they cant risk it. unless there is someone that is going to pony up some big bucks and deep pockets to run that team.

i wish u luck, but nat gadda dew it

risk what? Their money??? You mean all those millions they stole from South Florida when they raped the Horrobitch and then detroyed the best soccer ever played in the US to date.

FUSION style soccer was to have been what this countries soccer is all about ; instead MLS put us back into the stone age. MLS in Miami, Nebraska, Omaha, Detroit, Kalamazoo, Singapore, whatever. When you morons wise up and see what MLS is really all about is when they will demise and then we can get a real league going. Actualy, a real league already exists, we as fans need to start supporting it and getting away from the Monkey League Soccer.

[eric d]

Forget about pro soccer. Just about every pro sports team should get out of Florida.

[Arisrules]

Seriously.


There is no other state in the commonwealth were there is such general apathy for organizations in general.

For godsakes, Cathlene Harris, or whatever her name was, was elected representative of a county down there. Just for that, all of Florida should be disbanded form the republic

[BrianJames]

Originally posted by leca
100% correct, they got 20 mil from Horrorwitz, and they let us out to dry..


Uh, didn't Horowitz also let you out to dry? Not sure how this is MLS fault, I doubt the told him and his money to F off, it was the other way around.

What work was MLS supposed to do for Miami? Other than provide a good coach and some good players near the end, I'm what else MLS could have done, other than starting to build up the Fusion prior to 2001.

Isn't it Horowitz and the Fusion's responsiblity to promote the games and build up season ticket base?

Tampa and Miami were both crap organiziations. One with no owner, one with a non-committed owner. Tampa had a crap stadium situation in a big NFL stadium, Miami had a good stadium in a bad location (too far from Miami and all the soccer fans).

I'd like to see MLS return to one or both of these places, but not until they meet requirements of having a good committed owner, right sized stadium in the right location at the right price. Both cities have the fans, they just need to be tapped into properly.

[leca]

Horrorwitz...was raped, Se Florida was raped.
Fusion doomed from the
start...One big problem with Horrorwitz, he was
sick of supporting losses AWAY from Lockhart,
San Jose, Dalas, Tampa...etc

3 things WRONG with your arguement BrianJames,
otherwise I agree with he rest ;-)

1) Lockhart was the right Location in the middle
of the SE Florida soccer demographics. MIAMI
is NOT the center of the soccer market is part of it.
(the Strikers mooved out the OB to Lockhart, just
for that reason)


2) YES it is Garbers, and MLS execs jobs to help
this market, just as much as they helped the
other sorry mls markets, w/US Nats double headers
and other gimmicks..

3) the coach was a local, that came in by the will of
his fans, not by choice of mls, and he build the team in his own vision, with no help from Garber.

Bottom line is, Horrorowitz was not a good owner,
but had no experience, he forked out 20 mil for a 5
mil, franchise, he put more 15 mil more into Lockhart, and with MLS loosing money all over the place
he was not going to put more money into this market.. so!, Garber, MLS execs, and Horrorwitz
lied to each other, to you, to us..and now we have
no team, only debates..maybe it will help, for the
future.....building a more solid league...

Most of you cretins that bash s. Florida show much
ignorane to soccer passion and heritage, something that we have plenty here in S. Florida
if you where like us, MLS would be much stronger league.

[BrianJames]

Originally posted by leca


1) Lockhart was the right Location in the middle
of the SE Florida soccer demographics. MIAMI
is NOT the center of the soccer market is part of it.
(the Strikers mooved out the OB to Lockhart, just
for that reason)

I don't know the market very well other than what I've read, never actually been there. How is public transportation to Lockhart?


2) YES it is Garbers, and MLS execs jobs to help
this market, just as much as they helped the
other sorry mls markets, w/US Nats double headers
and other gimmicks..

IIRC, there were a couple Fusion matches played at the Orange Bowl that were doubleheaders in 2001. How many more doubleheaders were necessary?


3) the coach was a local, that came in by the will of
his fans, not by choice of mls, and he build the team in his own vision, with no help from Garber.


League controls all player contracts, what about coaches? Hudson was the fans choice, great, but how does this relate to Garber, he is supposed to scout coaches in 10 different cities and sign them?

[JJ Mindset]

Originally posted by leca


1) Lockhart was the right Location in the middle
of the SE Florida soccer demographics. MIAMI
is NOT the center of the soccer market is part of it.
(the Strikers mooved out the OB to Lockhart, just
for that reason)





Of course, that is your opinion, but I've also read that the market down there is pretty much divided. Dade county residents don't pretty much like Broward county residents and vice versa. That's part of what's dooming the Florida Marlins, for example. When they were formed, the owner thought he found the right location for the stadium, right near the border of the two counties. What followed was wave after wave of disappointments. From selling off the players from the 1997 World Series, to poor leadership in the front office, to the bad lease. Adding to all that, the location is proving to be radioactive. Nobody wants to drive all the way out there, pay high prices for parking and then endure what they think is an insult of the previous owner of the Marlins still running PPS. The Marlins finished 29th in attendence, just ahead of the Expos, who have no future. So that's saying a lot.


Now to Lockhart, it's a stadium owned by the community and leased to Horowitz, as I understood. So the community has a lot of say as to how it is used. I remember reading an article where the Fusion has to change some home dates because it was interfering with the Baltimore Orioles spring training schedule and the Orioles had priority. That says a lot about how they viewed MLS and it also tells me that Horowitz may have not made a good deal with the community as he originally thought. Why spend all that $$$ for refurbish the place if the tenant does not have the primary right to schedule events on the dates they want? He pretty much did them a big favor: turning your run-of-the-mill high school sports facility into a decent footy ground with his own money and then gets to be second to the Baltimore Orioles, of all teams, in the level of importance from the community's standpoint.


This is a big reason why wealthy people are reluctant to spend their own money for facilities. They want to make sure that they can utilize it however they want, whenever they want and not have some entity like the government tell them when and when not to schedule events. That's also why teams negotiating for leases to play at stadia owned by communities demand that they get all the revenues from club seats, parking, signage, concessions, ticket sales. Many times in the last decades, communities have bent over backwards to accomodate them, many times to the chagrin of the public. That's been changing recently.


So you have a divided and generally apathetic market, lease problems, overspending and leadership problems in general. These killed the Miami Fusion.

[leca]

BrianJames...the market is only partially divided,
and the job of the good management is to UNITE
the fans...Also, OB will realy divide the fans, because...if let appart the Broward fans, there is
a third county, PB, which was a major player in
fans on the seats...specially season ticket holders.

Playng at the OB has the problem of having walk
up ticket buyers, vs Season ticket holders..

the 2 Fusion matches at the OB got 15K and 25K
not to bad, but it would of been the same at
Lockhart ( and it could of been better at the OB)
The idea was great, and 2-3 games should be played there... but, you can pack Lockhart with
22-23K fans also.
How many more double headers ? 1 or 2 more that
is the answear...bring the US team once, as part of the
OB doublle headers vs a quality team and you will
get a great turn out...
BUT, is not only the double headers, is the long term PLAN for success, and the
MARKETING, which was none existent..

JJ....Youre last fraise...states your expertise on why
we dont have a team, YET at the top you state, that
you READ about this market...

All I can tell you 80% of what you read, is what Garber and his garbadge execs, want
you to know...all excuses for their blunders.

Public transportation ??????? are you nuts..what
public transportation??? unfortunately in S Florida
that is NOT the way to get anywhere..
the area is very spread out...
But, if you mean access... Lockhart is much more
accessible from anywhere..and with in 45 minutes
drive you can DRAW 90% of the fans MLS is looking for....OB is not as accessible, and is more expensive, lot more expensive...from parking to the lease...and is NOT the center of this market.

Last but not least The Orioles have a different facility next to Lockhart, and has NOTHYNG TO DO
or interfere with MLS... it is totally separate..

MLS lied to HORRORWITZ, garber LIED to all,
Horrorwirz lied to MLS...
and now we have no team
in one of the best markets, with the richest soccer
heritage in the USA.

[fusionmansteve]

Give 'em hell, leca....

...but you're wasting your time...these fans have an inherant need to blame our market (Logic aside) for the Fusion's contraction. As long as they can convince themselves of that, they don't have to accept the fact that their team could be next--hell, their league....

If you truly support this league, you should have been just as outraged as we were down here...but many of you just chalked it up to 'yeah, they had it coming'...you know I'm right.

If it was some other team contracted instead of us, I would be crapping my pants for the state of the league.

The spinning and manipulation from HQ is so intense, it would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic. Have a nice day.

[BrianJames]

Originally posted by fusionmansteve
Give 'em hell, leca....

...but you're wasting your time...these fans have an inherant need to blame our market (Logic aside) for the Fusion's contraction. As long as they can convince themselves of that, they don't have to accept the fact that their team could be next--hell, their league....

Christ, I all I said was it a was a bunch of issues that killed the Fusion and a POTENTIALLY good market. Ieca is blindly blaming MLS headquarters. Horowitz was one that backed out, since MLS is dying for investors I'd be insane for them to get rid of one.

Considering the insight JJ threw in, I'd put even more blame on Horowitz for backing out just when things seemed to be turning around, and then for being an idiot with the stadium situation.

[soccer4sFlorida]

what stadium situation ??

MLS is to blame for sure... the problem started
by overcharging for the franchise, why was
this market worth 20 mil to get in it ??? when
most others where 5 ???

and, second... Horrorwitz sticky point was also,
the money he was loosing away from Lockhart..

MLS mismanaged the whole deal from the start
to finish..

Horrorwitz... is to blame, but MLS and Garber,
had a huge amount of blame to share..

at 5 million cost and no away loses He will still be
in business...a new market staring up, and having
to share losses in other places?.. I hope, that there
is something to learn here...because most new
start ups.. specially some of the places mentioned
by Garber/NFL... will by Contracted in 2 years instead of 4.

so learn something...even if some of you have to
bash s. Florida, and believe the Garbers spin & BS
....just learn, take the MLS blinders off..

[art]

Originally posted by leca
long term PLAN for success, and the
MARKETING, which was none existent..

..which is down to Horowitz, NOT Garber. How is the fact that the Fusion did no marketing in their area (which I can personally attest to, having lived in SoFL for several years during the days of the Fusion) MLS' fault? The Fusion had an owner/operator, who was supposed to do these things. He did not, and eventually decided to bail out on MLS and the Fusion, leaving MLS no choice but to contract Miami. Ultimately, Horowitz was a poor owner, who didn't have the staying power to make it through the bad times. Bad choice of MLS to go there with that owner in the first place, perhaps, but my god the rest of your bitter paranoid rambling is nonsense.

if you like, argue that MLS should have given the Fusion a break, taken over the team short-term, and pushed hard to try to get a new owner for the side...though the fact that no one has ever come forward as a possible new owner in that area (whereas potential I/O's are popping up in other places like Seattle and Minnesota and Oklahoma) is pretty solid evidence that MLS was right not to take that chance. Also, had MLS given the Fusion a stay of execution and take over operations, how many sponsors would have bailed on MLS? Contraction occurred because MLS had to do something in the immediate to make their backers believe they were moving in the right direction. it was drastic, it was horrble, it was unfair, but it was also business, and it has ultimately made the league healthier...and frankly, it has staved off extinction for the time being, so that maybe someday MLS can go back to South Florida, if an I/O who's prepared to do what's neccesary to help the squad succeed is identified.

It sucks, it sucks, it sucks...but please, just for a moment, try to think rationally. The Fusion being contracted was a neccesary evil.

[BrianJames]

Originally posted by soccer4sFlorida

MLS is to blame for sure... the problem started
by overcharging for the franchise, why was
this market worth 20 mil to get in it ??? when
most others where 5 ???

Yeah, MLSHQ car jacked Horowitz and forced him to overpay for the franchise! :rolleyes:


so learn something...even if some of you have to
bash s. Florida, and believe the Garbers spin & BS
....just learn, take the MLS blinders off..

Reading comprehension, not you're best attribute is it. I'm bashing Whorowitz for not sticking with his orginal investment, investing into a high school field that was argubly in a bad location (along with the possibility the Fusion didn't even have total control of their dates), and then bailing at the first chance at contraction. MLSHQ really tried in 2001 to get some good players in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale (where ever the hell it was located) and the Fusion seemed to have pulled a 180 and were headed in the right direction. Blame you're owner for pulling the plug, or at least don't throw it all at MLS unless you have some inside info you're holding back.

[TitoDrago]

OK, so the complexities of the Florida markets alienates a sector of fans in adjacent counties… yada yada yada.

Look. Florida already had a team. No strike that, it had TWO teams. Neither team could break the 12,000 mark in average attendance even when they had their most exciting teams. Tampa Bay in its Valderrama-Lassiter glory days only drew 11,333(1997) and 11,679 (1996). That’s being generous as well because that factors in 4th of July and special event crowds. Meanwhile Miami, arguably 2001’s most exciting team still only managed a paltry 11,177. Whether you play in a stadium that has a capacity of 20,000 or 80,000, those numbers are dreadful.

So before you so casually go blaming Don Garber, ask Florida residents why they never showed up to the matches.

[Stuart]

Meanwhile Miami, arguably 2001’s most exciting team still only managed a paltry 11,177. Whether you play in a stadium that has a capacity of 20,000 or 80,000, those numbers are dreadful.Get real! Over 11,000 spectators a week, a 50 percent increase is dreadful? Tell me, which MLS team do you support that pulls numbers that makes 11,000 "dreadful"? Surely, nothing short of 30-40,000 could justify calling 11,000 dreadful? Oh, let me guess, your team pulled a "massive" 18-19,000. Wow! And that was probably with a few big double-headers and with another 2 or 3 years to build a fan base. I am getting sick of holier-than-thou MLS fans who seem to reckon we deserved contraction, but their team didn't despite pitifully better figures.

[leca]

Originally posted by BrianJames


Yeah, MLSHQ car jacked Horowitz and forced him to overpay for the franchise! :rolleyes:



Reading comprehension, not you're best attribute is it. I'm bashing Whorowitz for not sticking with his orginal investment, investing into a high school field that was argubly in a bad location (along with the possibility the Fusion didn't even have total control of their dates), and then bailing at the first chance at contraction. MLSHQ really tried in 2001 to get some good players in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale (where ever the hell it was located) and the Fusion seemed to have pulled a 180 and were headed in the right direction. Blame you're owner for pulling the plug, or at least don't throw it all at MLS unless you have some inside info you're holding back.

you been presented with facts, and you are still
ignorant...or you cant READ

PS in your last sentence after "best attribute isit"
you may insert a question mark,,,as such,,,?