The Gladbach Thread 2005-06 [R]

[wolfsburgh]

Let this be the thread to discuss all things Borussia Moenchengladbach for the upcoming season. Die Fohlen open up with an easy one this season: Bayern in Munich. The starting line-up for Friday's game is likely to the be following (4-4-2 with two defensive MFs and two wide offensive MFs): Keller; Bogelund - Helveg - Strasser - Jansen; Kluge - Kamphuis - Heinz - Broich; Sverkos - Neuville. You might see Fukal for Bogelund or El-Fakiri or Ulich for Heinz. Gladbach is short on strikers right now, with Elber not fully fit and Sonck out for six weeks with a rib injury. While there are two new starting defenders, I'm not sure Bogelund and Helveg are an improvement on van Kerckhoven/Moore and Fukal/Korzynietz. Plus, Strasser is still starting, so that can't be good.

I'm afraid this is going to be another long season, with relegation avoided only at the end. The over/under on new Coach Horst Koeppel getting fired? Las Vegas has it at 14 games. Personally, I think Koeppel was a crappy hire, so I'm not entirely sure a quick hook would be a bad thing.

If you're interested, Gladbach's two highest profile friendlies this preseason were at Celtic and home to PSV, with neither game yielding a goal.

My prediction for Friday: Bad Guys 2:0 Good Guys.

[wolfsburgh]

Not that it matters much, but the preseason friendly in Glasgow was against Rangers, not Celtic (Celtic, Rangers, what's the difference :) ).

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Horst Koeppel saved Gladbach from relegation and beat Bayern 2 - 0 in his first game in charge(even though he wasn't fully hired then) so i don't understand why you are negative about him.

[wolfsburgh]

Horst Koeppel saved Gladbach from relegation and beat Bayern 2 - 0 in his first game in charge(even though he wasn't fully hired then) so i don't understand why you are negative about him.

When Koeppel had his first go-around as caretaker manager in Fall 2004, he stated that he did not want the job as full-time manager. When he was named caretaker manager again in Spring 2005, he again seemed reluctant to be a full-time manager. So I question his commitment to the job, and I question his ability to command respect from his players over the long haul.

Moreover, his "success" (a bunch of horrid, albeit important, 0-0 draws) at the end of last season seemed, at least to me, almost entirely the product of the players' distaste of Advocaat. Let me explain. Many of the players hated Advocaat, and wanted to show that he was the problem, not them. They were exceptionally motivated to play for Koeppel not because they wanted to play for Koeppel, but because they wanted to thumb their noses at Advocaat. Without Advocaat and the immediate threat of relegation to motivate the players, I'm not sure Koeppel can do the job. Look at what happened in the last game, after Koeppel was named full-time manager, and after Gladbach staved off relegation: they were utterly embarrased by Leverkusen, 5-1 (I think). I'm afraid more of that is in store.

Finally, Gladbach played mind-numbing, defensive soccer down the stretch last season under Koeppel. Perhaps that is what Koeppel needed to do, but it certainly doesn't create much optimism for the future.

Bottom line is that Koeppel is an ill-fitted short-term solution to a longer-term need. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect we will be talking in November about his replacement.

[cdpconrad2119]

Will sonck be playing much this season?

[wolfsburgh]

Will sonck be playing much this season?

Bottom line is that I think he will play a lot this season, once he recovers from his injury, but may not be a regular starter. Gladbach have four strikers: Sonck, Elber, Neuville and Sverkos. Neuville and Sverkos will start the season in the first 11, as Sonck is hurt and Elber is not yet fit. I have my doubts as to whether Elber will ever get fit, which means Sonck will probably be the third choice for two forward spots. With injuries, suspensions, and given Sverkos' inconsistent play, I would fully expect Sonck to play in most games and start maybe 2/3 of them upon his return from injury.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Of all of Gladbach's strikers, Sonck is most talented and maybe most exciting...once he's fit I think he should be Neuville's partner.

[wolfsburgh]

Of all of Gladbach's strikers, Sonck is most talented and maybe most exciting...once he's fit I think he should be Neuville's partner.

I think Sverkos is more talented and perhaps the most exciting. I don't think his game is as "polished" as Sonck yet.

[wolfsburgh]

I did not see the Bayern game, but did watch the highlights last night. While Bayern posters seemed to dismissed Gladbach's efforts, the highlights I saw suggested that Gladbach had some opportunities and did not look thoroughly outmatched. A couple shots that bounced off posts, for example. And Jansen looked to have earned a penalty against Karimi. I'm still concerned as to where the goals are going to come from. Sverkos isn't consistent, Neuville isn't the kind of player that going to score 15 goals for you, Elber follows in the Ziege/Boehme tradition (washed up star just collecting a paycheck), and of course Sonck gets a pass for now because he's hurt, but I didn't see anything last year which suggested he's going to light up the scoreboards. But the thing that struck me the most was that the defense continues to look disorganized and inept, particularly centrally. I was skeptical of the off-season moves, and now I am even more distressed. Reports were that Bogelund played OK, but Helveg was horrible (and I read somewhere on these boards that he was terrible for Norwich last season as well), his Portuguese replacement wasn't deemed good enough by the coaching staff to start over Helveg, and Strasser is woefully miscast as an everyday central defender. I certainly don't know the complete story behind his departure, but I can safely say that "Borussia's" best defender is playing in Kaiserslautern. And if anyone's counting, I believe Koeppel's record in 1.BL games since being named head coach on a full-time basis is 0-2 with 8 goals against and only one scored. That inspires confidence.

All of this being said, I certainly never thought Borussia was going to beat Bayern in Allianz, and probably would have predicted a 2-0 score (although to play a man up for a half and still lose 3-0 is embarassing). But the Wolfsburg game this weekend is a big one. Gladbach is at home, against a team that is weaker than they were last year on the field (no Petrov, no depth), weaker than they were on the coach's bench (Gerets versus Fach is a total mismatch), and weaker than they were last year in the front office (Pander is so much better than Strunz, who is a total idiot). If Gladbach aspires to mid-table safety this season, this is the kind of game they need to win. I was hoping this would be the Fox Soccer Channel's game of the week, but they stuck us with the fairly wretched Lautern/Duisburg game, so I will have to wait untl next week for a report on the game.

[footyfan1]

Arsenal Targets Gladbach's Jansen (http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=299242&cpid=22&CLID=&lid=2&title=Gunners+target+Jansen&channel=football_home)

[wolfsburgh]

The Jansen story is a new development. Folks in Gladbach love the guy and want to hold onto him . . . but are pessimistic about their abilities to do so, especially if the interest in him is from Arsenal (it has also been speculated that other clubs are or will shortly be interested in him now that Arsenal has been "out-ed," so to speak). Arsenal purportedly offered 5 million euros for him. The 15 million euro pricetag set forth in the article is, near as I can tell, a fiction. Also, Jansen is signed through 2008, not 2007 as the linked article states. So there is no immediate pressure to sell him. My gut is that he'll stay with Gladbach this season (he's playing everyday, which will increase his chances of making Germany 2006 and aid in his development; if he goes to Arsenal this year, he'll play a handful of games at best and his progress will be stunted), and the club will sell him next year for, assuming he continues to develop, a price slightly south of 10 million euros. Don't know whether it will be to Arsenal though. Doesn't Bayern need a left back? Gladbach does have a suitable replacement for him, Filip Daems, whom Advocaat bought last winter (plus there's Ziege, too, but that would be fairly disastrous). Daems is competent.

[keller]

Its news to us here in blighty that the gooners are interested in Jansen. I must have been in hibernation too long.

[footyfan1]

The Jansen story is a new development. Folks in Gladbach love the guy and want to hold onto him . . . but are pessimistic about their abilities to do so, especially if the interest in him is from Arsenal (it has also been speculated that other clubs are or will shortly be interested in him now that Arsenal has been "out-ed," so to speak). Arsenal purportedly offered 5 million euros for him. The 15 million euro pricetag set forth in the article is, near as I can tell, a fiction.


The 15 million price tag is a "hands off" figure. However, I'm sure they'll wind up selling the player for between 6-10 million.


Also, Jansen is signed through 2008, not 2007 as the linked article states. So there is no immediate pressure to sell him. My gut is that he'll stay with Gladbach this season (he's playing everyday, which will increase his chances of making Germany 2006 and aid in his development; if he goes to Arsenal this year, he'll play a handful of games at best and his progress will be stunted), and the club will sell him next year for, assuming he continues to develop, a price slightly south of 10 million euros.

Great minds think alike! :)


Don't know whether it will be to Arsenal though. Doesn't Bayern need a left back? Gladbach does have a suitable replacement for him, Filip Daems, whom Advocaat bought last winter (plus there's Ziege, too, but that would be fairly disastrous). Daems is competent.

Would you sell a young, up and coming star to the top team in your own league unless he forces you to sell him there???

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Gladbach look to replace Heinz with Lisztes:

http://www.kicker.de/content/news/artikel.asp?folder=3100&object=319981&liga=1&saison=2005%2F06&spieltag=3&gruppe=18150

Ok, i may be Hungarian and therefore biased, but i still think this would be a wise signing by Gladbach as Lisztes is definetely a very good player and is likely to improve once he's back in shape.

[wolfsburgh]

Gladbach look to replace Heinz with Lisztes:

http://www.kicker.de/content/news/artikel.asp?folder=3100&object=319981&liga=1&saison=2005%2F06&spieltag=3&gruppe=18150

Ok, i may be Hungarian and therefore biased, but i still think this would be a wise signing by Gladbach as Lisztes is definetely a very good player and is likely to improve once he's back in shape.

I like Lisztes. Personally, I think he was one of the unsung heroes of Bremen's championship two season seasons ago. Fortunately for Bremen (if there was any fortune at all in this incident), Listzes's knee injury came late in the season, at a point in the season where Bremen had put enough distance between themselves and Bayern to not be seriously challenged for the title. If Lisztes's knee injury had occurred earlier, Bremen might have been in a bit of trouble. I don't think it's a coincidence that Micoud wasn't effective last season as he was the season before without Listzes doing the dirty work for him.

That being said, Lisztes is not what Gladbach needs. Lisztes is a good, solid, fundamental midfielder, with a high workrate and more defensive-oriented than offensive-oriented. The problem is that Gladbach already has a bunch of those: Oude Kamphuis, El-Fakiri, Kluge, Thijs, and to a lesser extent Strasser and Daems (both primarily defenders but have been used in MF). I'm not suggesting that they are better than a healthy Lisztes, but they have the primary virtue of already being wth the club. What Gladbach needs is a offensive-minded MF who can score goals and create scoring opportunities. While I have a tremendous amount of respect for Lisztes, I don't view him as that kind of player. If Gladbach does sign him, I certainly don't view that as a bad development for the club (although I'm not sure that it's the best situation for Lisztes, since I think his way to playing time will be blocked some), but I question whether it is a wise allocation of what presumably are limited resources.

In other Gladbach news, they've signed Kahe, a Brazilian striker. Never heard of the guy (which doesn't mean anything), but the fact that other clubs weren't particularly interested in the guy does not fill me with optimism regarding his future contributions to the club. But Gladbach did need a striker, as I think Neuville is starting to wear down, Sverkos has disappointed, Elber is useless, and Sonck is still recovering from his rib injury, so I'm willing to keep an open mind. Also, Heinz is gone. I'm disappointed the club never found a way to maximize this guy's talent. For a club devoid of creativity and offensive spark, I can't believe someone like Heinz can't be utilized effectively.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Well, i have to say Lisztes did play as a creator for the Hungarian NT up until he got injured (he has since not played for 'em), and in my opinion he performed better in that position in the NT than he did in his position in Bremen.

I agree with you on Heinz, Gladbach really shoulda done a better job with him. And isn't it a little harsh to call Elber useless? :(

I would have him back in Stuttgart anyday :) (well, besides now, we really don't need more strikers now i think).

[wolfsburgh]

Well, i have to say Lisztes did play as a creator for the Hungarian NT up until he got injured (he has since not played for 'em), and in my opinion he performed better in that position in the NT than he did in his position in Bremen.

I agree with you on Heinz, Gladbach really shoulda done a better job with him. And isn't it a little harsh to call Elber useless? :(

I would have him back in Stuttgart anyday :) (well, besides now, we really don't need more strikers now i think).

My exposure to Lisztes has been limited to the BL; he did play a more attacking role for the club pre-Micoud, IIRC, but I still view him more as a "traditional" MF, and not the playmaker/creator type.

Gladbach signed Elber last January, I believe. Since then, he has played in two games for a total of 29 minutes. And then he got hurt again for the Schalke game. If you can't play, in my book, you're useless (except in the NBA, of course, where your cap value about to come off the books may be far more valuable to the the team than your actual contributions on the court).

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Knowing Elber, he probably has a bigggg contract (for BMG anyways)...how's Sonck btw?

[wolfsburgh]

Knowing Elber, he probably has a bigggg contract (for BMG anyways)...how's Sonck btw?

Don't know exact numbers, but he didn't come cheap. Sonck's getting better. They're still shooting for his return mid-September. Maybe September 17?

[wolfsburgh]

Borussia did sign Lisztes. One year deal, sounds like the club has an option on a second year.