Thoughts on our center halves

[billyho96]

I watched the Porto game (and the last several years) and came away thinking that our center backs are just not coached very well.

No manager can be everything to everyone. JM is a tremendous defensive coach but for all the talent they have Chelsea still seem to appear to have trouble scoring on built up possession. (the two against DC united came from a class strike from Duff that really came out of nothing and the other was a total defensive blunder)

Even on set pieces, our players seem so concerned about spacing and playing their lanes that they are vulnerable to players slipping between them. They are watching the ball and looking to play it not their marker, thus leaving them exposed on class crosses. Just prior to the Porto goal the line was in perfect formation and communicating, but they were watching the player on the ball and when he played it beyond their reach, Porto shot the gap and laid in an easy goal.

You watch Chelsea's back four and you'll see the strikers are allowed no room to work, the backs are glued to their man and less concerned with ball watching. They play the ball when it arrives but their priority is the man. Arsenal seem to playing more of a zone system, which they were criticized for last season on set pieces and it just is not working.

Thoughts?

[Rewinder]

I agree with you completely.

Chelsea won the season because of their excellent defense. Not so much that their players are better at defense, but have been coached into an incredible system. While watching their mathces, focus on their players when they dont have the ball - they leave their opponents no options and close down all possible runs they could be making.

We could use a an assistant to AW who can bring the teams defense up to scratch. The players seem to not really go in for the 50/50 challenges and give up the ball, then try to make the challenge once another player has already made a run into the gap they are going to open up. Crosses are another big problem. The entire defense seems to drift towards the player with the ball and leaves the men theyre supposed to be marking open. We saw it happen so many times last season where they would have to suddenly stop and try to make their way back to their player hoping to make it in time, and way too often they were off their player enough for them to take an attempt on goal.

[topcatcole]

Absolutely. All one has to do is look at our set piece play. Everyone runs around, but no one covers. Our defense has always looked disorganized and sloppy.

[ports485]

I don't really think this is an issue of coaching. More an issue of personnel. Chelsea have Terry, Carvalho, Gallas, Huth. Four European internationals. We have Campbell, Toure, a 20 year old and CYGAN. Slight difference, especially in depth.

Every team coached reasonably well has some sort of zone system. If you'd ever played the game at a high level you'd know that defending man to man is exhausting and usually unnecessary.

[topcatcole]

I don't really think this is an issue of coaching. More an issue of personnel. Chelsea have Terry, Carvalho, Gallas, Huth. Four European internationals. We have Campbell, Toure, a 20 year old and CYGAN. Slight difference, especially in depth.

Every team coached reasonably well has some sort of zone system. If you'd ever played the game at a high level you'd know that defending man to man is exhausting and usually unnecessary.Oh god, here we go with the "if you'd ever played at a high level" irrelevancy again. OK, Mr World Cup winner, we all wait with bated breath for your next jewel of wisdom. :rolleyes:

[Midorit]

Oh god, here we go with the "if you'd ever played at a high level" irrelevancy again. OK, Mr World Cup winner, we all wait with bated breath for your next jewel of wisdom. :rolleyes:

If you'd ever played soccer at a high level,you wouldn't be so annoyed by this type of comment...and so on.

[Midorit]

Oh god, here we go with the "if you'd ever played at a high level" irrelevancy again. OK, Mr World Cup winner, we all wait with bated breath for your next jewel of wisdom. :rolleyes:

If you'd ever played soccer at a high level,you would know for sure that a World Cup winner wouldn't be expressing himself on a website like this...and so on.

[ports485]

All I was saying is that y'all are too quick to judge and claim that the likes of Campbell, Toure and even Cygan are "unorganized" and not coached well. That's simply wrong. We let in fewer goals than what, 90% of the Premiership? And that's taking into account Campbell's struggle for fitness, Toure's still adjusting to the position, Senderos' youth and Cygan's general lack of athletic ability. With all those factors you call for some sort of tactical overhaul.....and basically proved my point you don't know that much about the game.

[topcatcole]

All I was saying is that y'all are too quick to judge and claim that the likes of Campbell, Toure and even Cygan are "unorganized" and not coached well. That's simply wrong. We let in fewer goals than what, 90% of the Premiership? And that's taking into account Campbell's struggle for fitness, Toure's still adjusting to the position, Senderos' youth and Cygan's general lack of athletic ability. With all those factors you call for some sort of tactical overhaul.....and basically proved my point you don't know that much about the game.So... because we think it could be done better and because we think that there is more to be done by coaching than by just getting more players, we obviously don't know that much about the game. Were you born an arrogant prick or are you the result of poor parenting? Enlighten us, oh wise one. :rolleyes:

[Midorit]

With all those factors you call for some sort of tactical overhaul.....and basically proved my point you don't know that much about the game.

They are talking about the lack of tactics/discpline in defense,not "some sort of tactical overhaul".If you'd ever posted a reply at a high level,you would've got better idea of what the issue is here...(and you)basically proved my point that you don't know that much about the BBS.

[michaec]

Our centre halves have poor starting positions, both in defence and on attacking set-pieces. When they get to a ball they're generally jumping from a standing start, not coming onto it as they should be. It results in defensive headers not going very far away from our goal and not even getting near corners and free-kicks sent into the opposition box most of the time (and the quality of ball in is generally atrocious, someone needs to tell Henry to get away from corners and free-kicks where he's not shooting). The coaches must be able to see it and the point remains that they don't seem to be doing anything about it.

[Heff]

I watched the Porto game (and the last several years) and came away thinking that our center backs are just not coached very well.

No manager can be everything to everyone. JM is a tremendous defensive coach but for all the talent they have Chelsea still seem to appear to have trouble scoring on built up possession. (the two against DC united came from a class strike from Duff that really came out of nothing and the other was a total defensive blunder)

Even on set pieces, our players seem so concerned about spacing and playing their lanes that they are vulnerable to players slipping between them. They are watching the ball and looking to play it not their marker, thus leaving them exposed on class crosses. Just prior to the Porto goal the line was in perfect formation and communicating, but they were watching the player on the ball and when he played it beyond their reach, Porto shot the gap and laid in an easy goal.

You watch Chelsea's back four and you'll see the strikers are allowed no room to work, the backs are glued to their man and less concerned with ball watching. They play the ball when it arrives but their priority is the man. Arsenal seem to playing more of a zone system, which they were criticized for last season on set pieces and it just is not working.

Thoughts?

I agree, Chelsea won the premiership on their defensive record more then their goalscoring record. If you have a look at the transfers this season for the premiership sides, they are all buying defenders to "copy" chelseas method.

Our CB compared to theirs is no contest. They give the opposition no room to move an fly into players in 50ß50 challenges. Their defenders also score more then we do, for example Terry. This maybe due to their set-pieces being better or it may be due to the coaching methods. We were so use to Adams and kEOWN being 2 great CBs and now compared to Campbell and toure our game defensivly has changed.

[antifan]

I agree, Chelsea won the premiership on their defensive record more then their goalscoring record. If you have a look at the transfers this season for the premiership sides, they are all buying defenders to "copy" chelseas method.

Our CB compared to theirs is no contest. They give the opposition no room to move an fly into players in 50ß50 challenges. Their defenders also score more then we do, for example Terry. This maybe due to their set-pieces being better or it may be due to the coaching methods. We were so use to Adams and kEOWN being 2 great CBs and now compared to Campbell and toure our game defensivly has changed.
Chelsea has a commited DCM, Makelele, playing in front of the defence. It will be interesting to see how impressive they are without him. He's injured, right? I hope he doesn't recover too quickly.

[Heff]

Chelsea has a commited DCM, Makelele, playing in front of the defence. It will be interesting to see how impressive they are without him. He's injured, right? I hope he doesn't recover too quickly.


He is injured mate. Gilberto for us this season has to play the best season he has had at the club. He will have to play the role Vieira has left.

[antifan]

He is injured mate. Gilberto for us this season has to play the best season he has had at the club. He will have to play the role Vieira has left.
Thank you, and don't forget about Cesc either. The best is yet to come.

[Heff]

Thank you, and don't forget about Cesc either. The best is yet to come.


Lets hope Fabbie plays. AW has a selection headache. Pires Freddie Gilberto have to start really. But Hleb, reyes and Cesc have to feature. I didnt see anything from Hleb but obviously its to soon to say.

[antifan]

Lets hope Fabbie plays. AW has a selection headache. Pires Freddie Gilberto have to start really. But Hleb, reyes and Cesc have to feature. I didnt see anything from Hleb but obviously its to soon to say.
We'll be fine, Arsene knows. Plus the Chavs are going to be minus Makelele, Robben (as usual), and some other Chav, whatever. Fck them, i hate Chav$ki! :D

[yossarian]

Lets hope Fabbie plays. AW has a selection headache. Pires Freddie Gilberto have to start really. But Hleb, reyes and Cesc have to feature. I didnt see anything from Hleb but obviously its to soon to say.

Are you saying you haven't been impressed by Hleb thus far?

I realize it's only the pre-season, but I've been very impressed with him. His ability to take players on seems very good and his passing is incisive.

[Detlef]

Sol is going to miss the start of the season, correct?? :confused:

[yossarian]

Sol is going to miss the start of the season, correct?? :confused:

I'm not sure.

Arseblog today is reporting the rumor (that we've heard hinted) that Sol is not happy about the CB pecking order right now and wants out.

www.arseblog.com (http://www.arseblog.com)