2-3-2-3 or 2-3-3-2 as a starter formation

[thomsj]

After 6 years of coaching girls rec U6 though U12 (same team), I have been asked to help coach a U13 girls select (try-out) team. The head coach was the Assistant last year with the U12 team. Of the 12 players from last year 3 moved up, so 10 of our 18 are new. Two of those 10 have played at this level or higher, so 8 are new to this level of play. None of us has experience at full feild 11 v 11 play. Team has good skills, better than average speed, not much size (we must not feed our girls right), and just fair fitness (working on that but will take time). I am thinking on using either a 2-3-2-3 or a 2-3-3-2 formation (sweepers-backs-mids-forwards). I like the built in support angles and the openings for the backs to overlap (something that a couple of my speedy wingback already do). I also like that either can be easily tweaked as the see what the girls can do in a game situation, as they get used to playing together and as the season goes on. Any thoughts on which to use?

[Ray Luca]

After 6 years of coaching girls rec U6 though U12 (same team), I have been asked to help coach a U13 girls select (try-out) team. The head coach was the Assistant last year with the U12 team. Of the 12 players from last year 3 moved up, so 10 of our 18 are new. Two of those 10 have played at this level or higher, so 8 are new to this level of play. None of us has experience at full feild 11 v 11 play. Team has good skills, better than average speed, not much size (we must not feed our girls right), and just fair fitness (working on that but will take time). I am thinking on using either a 2-3-2-3 or a 2-3-3-2 formation (sweepers-backs-mids-forwards). I like the built in support angles and the openings for the backs to overlap (something that a couple of my speedy wingback already do). I also like that either can be easily tweaked as the see what the girls can do in a game situation, as they get used to playing together and as the season goes on. Any thoughts on which to use?

I have no idea on how your players play. If I had to choise I would say 2-3-3-2 more peiple in the mid field and more space up top for your 2 strikers and to add someone other then them into the attack.

Fitness is very important and these being kids would be boared running with out the ball. So make your practices a challenge physically, and end dividing your team in half and playing on a full field.

Play with this rule when we lose the ball last three highest up field pressure the ball. Player closest to the ball pressure that dribbler. The player behind that player plays as a second defender behind. The third player he could be the furthest up field take away the dribblers closest back pass option.

Now good part if any one of these three players manage to win the ball you immediate attack their goal. So if they work hard they may get a goal out of that work. If not they retreat back until they get behind the ball in your defensive half with the rest of the team.

Everyone else retreat into your defensive half of the field.

You can also play without keepers in this. The keepers still train as keeper in practices and in other team drills except this one. Why, because even though they are keepers they must practice their foot skills as well this is a good way to get them to do this. When you break the team up in other practices if you want let them be keeprs mix it up..

The goals when no keepers use big cones you hit it you score. No player can defender the cone only another player. Player defendes the cone to protect it and they are hit with a ball shot from an opponent that opponent scores a goal.
--------------
When you play your formation the three defender in front of the sweeper can not let an aired ball get past them. If they do it is goibng to be all over. So when the opponent wins the ball drop back deep enough so the ball stays in front of them and not behind them.

---------------

Also coach in stations different skill work in each station so newer players can stay longer in the station they need more work in. You have to push them to work hard in each station. So also put one player good at this work in each particular station. He should push the weaker players in each station besides you. So there will be no relaxing in any station when your not there over seeing them.

[spartanpele]

Neither. I'd use either a 4-4-2, or 4-3-3 for the girls teams.

Having 5 defenders seems a bit on the defensive side and only 2 mids means a big gap between your defense and forwards. It could just be the way you're describing it, but it sounds like something the girls wouldn't pick up or understand right away.

If these girls are used to a higher level of play, they probably already used to the typical 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 styles. Thats probably easiest to start with, and then you can gradually switch over and teach new styles as the season progresses after you see where the players drift for positions.

Usually you fit your system to fit the players, not the other way around.

Best of luck...!

[mzbrand]

I have a similar situation. For some reason my league has decided to go to 11 on the field with my u-9's this year. As a result I don't think fitness will be what you'd want for this size field and my players are relatively inexperienced.

I've decided on a 2-3-3-2 formation as well. The only difference is that I will train them to play as defender/defensive mid/attacking mid/forward. This gives me the option to instruct the def mids to play conservatively and effectively have 5 defenders, or if we're doing better let them push up and help on the attack. I also plan to have the defenders play like sweepers.

This is not the voice of experience, but just the results of wrestling with a similar problem. I hope it helps!

[Mr Martin]

My suggestion for both the original poster with an 18-player U13 girls team and the later poster with a U9 team (that is for some strange reason playing 11v11): Play SIMPLY and use a 4-3-3.

And this advice comes from a coach who is really a big 4-4-2 fan.

For the U13 team with the big roster: You'll find it much easier to substitute players in a 4-3-3. The 2-3-3-2 formation will be a bit harder to sub players because the roles will likely be more specialized. For example, the dual backs and dual strikers require certain kinds of players and don't allow for as much flexibility. You'll have more trouble getting those 7 subs into the games with the more complex/unusual formations, especially whenever the games are close.

For the U9 team: Simplicity is crucial at this age. Give the kids simple roles to play, so that both you and the players can focus on their individual skills as the overriding priority. 4-3-3 is a nice, simple, easy to understand setup. Also, since U9's should be playing multiple positions over the course of a season, the simpler formation will make shifting kids to new roles every few games much easier. Again, the more complex the formation and the specific roles, the more specialized you'll tend to make your players. But U9's shouldn't be specialized.

Good luck.

[mzbrand]

My suggestion for both the original poster with an 18-player U13 girls team and the later poster with a U9 team (that is for some strange reason playing 11v11): Play SIMPLY and use a 4-3-3.



Would you use a diamond of a flat 4 for the defense?

[cdpconrad2119]

He should use a diamond if he has one player that he can trust to hold up the d and be the last line of defense. If he has no standout defender than a flat 4 would be better. I prefer the flatback in this situation because girls of that age dont usually have the ability to place a nice chip over the defense which is what you need to beat a flat 4.

[Mr Martin]

Would you use a diamond of a flat 4 for the defense?

I grew up playing for teams that always use the sweeper/stopper diamond setup for the back-4. It is probably the most common format in US youth soccer, and relatively easy to start using, especially if you have a classic speedy/smart sweeper type of player who cleans up the errors of the other backs.

As a coach, however, I've switched to teaching a zonal back-4, which some might call a flat back-4. Of course, it is rarely ever really flat, since the players are supposed to play 1st/2nd/3d defender roles and adjust to the ball and the opponent. So, I prefer to call it a zonal back-4 to avoid confusion.

Choosing one or the other really depends on what you are trying to teach, what level of talent you have on the squad, and what you are comfortable teaching.

[mzbrand]

The problems I've had are: (1) We get killed on crosses playing a diamond, and (2) I tried a "zonal" back 3 (with 9 on the field) but found it very difficult to teach. 1st def/2nd def they get, but in both cases they were too easily pulled out into the wings to prevent a crossing attack.

I was going to play 4-4-2 but after trying to teach a zonal 3 I became very pessimistic about a zonal 4. My solution is to have two defenders play as sweepers (zonal in front of the goal), and then convert the wing backs into defensive midfielders. The zones won't shift much, but it's a "poor man's zonal 4" and we'll have protection against crosses.

Compared with teaching the zonal 4 I find teaching 4 deep much simpler. I can use the lines on the field to identify the basic zone for each position (extending them once they get the idea down). I've been doing this for a couple of seasons and have had little trouble getting the kids to understand. And this keeps the team spread out on a long field.

[Jeff L]

You are going waaaaaaaaaaaay too deep in your preparation of systems for kids of this age, particularly girls. I agree with "SpartanPele". You shouldn't have to vary much from either 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 at this age, and probably at this ability. WIthout knowing your coaching skills or levels, and without wishing to sound too detirmental, possibly too far beyond your own capability.
Keep it simple at this stage, and with this age group.

[Katowice]

Keep it simple, 4-4-2 or 4-3-3. 4-4-2 is probably the most flexible and adaptable system (diamond shapes or four across in a line).

[Val1]

My U12s that have just started playing full field 11v11, I have playing a 3 - 4 - 3.

Typically, my best players are my defenders, and at that age, most attacks are really one or two players coming up. I try, like everyone, to teach that everyone defends, but in reality my midfielders just don't seem to run back with as much urgency when there are four defenders back there than when there are just three. I'm also good at developing target centre forwards, so I like to have three players up front. I typically just let the midfielders sort themselves out and the team I had last year, the kids naturally fit into a diamond: one wanted to be forward, really, and two just naturally gravitated back to helping with the defense. The fun got started when I had my left footed player play on the right and my two righties play on the left...

[usscouse]

The problems I've had are: (1) We get killed on crosses playing a diamond, and (2) I tried a "zonal" back 3 (with 9 on the field) but found it very difficult to teach. 1st def/2nd def they get, but in both cases they were too easily pulled out into the wings to prevent a crossing attack.

I was going to play 4-4-2 but after trying to teach a zonal 3 I became very pessimistic about a zonal 4. My solution is to have two defenders play as sweepers (zonal in front of the goal), and then convert the wing backs into defensive midfielders. The zones won't shift much, but it's a "poor man's zonal 4" and we'll have protection against crosses.

Compared with teaching the zonal 4 I find teaching 4 deep much simpler. I can use the lines on the field to identify the basic zone for each position (extending them once they get the idea down). I've been doing this for a couple of seasons and have had little trouble getting the kids to understand. And this keeps the team spread out on a long field.Like the man said a lot of US teams still play the diamond back because the coaches grew up with it. We had a really outstanding season and against better teams because we went flat 4 at the back with a diamond mid 4. The defensive mid (or stopper) breaks up or slows the attack so the the 4 can deal with it. The attacking mid and wing mids support the attack or help defend.

----------Keep
RB-----RCB-----LCB-----LB
--------DM
RM---------------------LM
-------------AM
-------RS--------LS

[keem-o-sabi]

Awww the MW formation...so much attacking in this one :)

I'd use a 4.3.3. There are players in all area's of the field and negates the 442 long ball hopeful approach. If your team is a possession team 433 is a way to go, becuase the 3 up top spread wide and the 3 in the middle play around the center circle, leaving nice passing lanes to go from the fullbacks to the wingers. I personally like the 433 over the 442, sometimes I use a 352 though as well as you have a lot of support from you cm's. It really depends on your players though.

[mzbrand]

We had our first game last Saturday. 2-3-3-2 worked great for my U-9 team, especially for a hot day. I noticed that several other teams in our age group were also playing two defenders and it looked like at least one of them had three defensive mids as well.

I don't know if I'd play this formation with an older team, but at this age on a full field it helps a lot that every player is assigned only part of the field.

[keem-o-sabi]

it's a u9 league??? and you're playing 11 a side? Damn. We play 8v8 at u9/10 in wny and then 9v9 at u11 and maybe u12 next year. That's a lot of space for the little guys? You play a full field with small goals?

[mzbrand]

it's a u9 league??? and you're playing 11 a side? Damn. We play 8v8 at u9/10 in wny and then 9v9 at u11 and maybe u12 next year. That's a lot of space for the little guys? You play a full field with small goals?

It's killing us. This league is insane but I haven't yet found a way to get out of it and keep my team in tact.

We play a full sized field and with a full sized goal. My goalies are pretty much useless unless there are defenders helping to cover the goal. The field is so big that I can't do any coaching because they can't hear me.

The good news (for me) is that we've played 2 out of 3 of our game so far mostly on the attacking side of the field. The bad news is that 2 of the games have been 90+ degrees and it's really hard to teach players of this age to correctly play positions so that they're not running the full length of the field.

But this brings me back to my motivation for playing 4 deep. I'm creating 4 "zones" which cover only part of the field so that each player has a zone and a place to rest.

For anyone interested in this challenge, I've made a minor change up. I've been using my center defensive midfielder as a stopper (waits at the half during attacks). I'm still doing this, but playing the stopper as a defender instead of defensive midfielder. The effect is to create a triangular defense where each of the three play a rotating 1st defender/2nd defender/3rd defender as they're falling back on this huge field. This gives time for the defensive midfielders to get back and seems to work pretty well. So the main change is to play 3-2-3-2 and train the stoppers to work tightly with the defenders instead of loosely like the defensive midfielders.

[Bob Christensen]

I have drafted a short article to describe how I use the 2-3-2-3 to introduce young playes to full-sided play on a full-sized pitch. It is designed to prepare them to play a flat back four as quickly and efficiently as possible. Please note that I do not advocate this system of play for many teams, but for those that are really struggling with the space and roles on a full-sized pitch and 11-a-side play, this has proven to be really useful:

http://eteamz.active.com/mandansoccer/files/running_the_2323.pdf