question about the gold cup

[ejo1956]

i was thinking what would happen if colombia won concacaf's domestic tournement. i thought that the winner from every domestic tourny gets a spot into the next confederations cup. so if colombia wins the gold cup, concacaf wouldnt have a representative?

[MasterShake29]

i was thinking what would happen if colombia won concacaf's domestic tournement. i thought that the winner from every domestic tourny gets a spot into the next confederations cup. so if colombia wins the gold cup, concacaf wouldnt have a representative?

2 scenarios (not sure which one applies):

1. Runner up goes
2. A playoff is held between runner up and the team that lost to Colombia in the semifinals.

I'm not sure there's a 2007 Confederations Cup so it may not matter.

[spanishfan1]

Thats an interesting question

[acolombi]

It would go to the higest finishing CONCACAF member as Columbia is a guest who won and therefor inelegable to accept that particular prize.

[MasterShake29]

Same would apply if Mexico won Copa America.

[ChcgoStingInMyBlood]

Firstly, of course, CONCACAF would look terribly bad. A C- team from CONMEBOL #4 or #5 wins our confederation tournament.

I think Jack and Chuck would just meet in a room somewhere and walk out declaring T&T the confederation champion...

[FIFARay007]

I still don't see why we need 2 "guest" teams when we have over 40 countries here in the CONCACAF.

[Pibe#10]

I still don't see why we need 2 "guest" teams when we have over 40 countries here in the CONCACAF.

exactly, same thing with México in Libertadores, they are a several clubs that get left out because they take their spots.

[Balam_Acab]

Firstly, of course, CONCACAF would look terribly bad. A C- team from CONMEBOL #4 or #5 wins our confederation tournament.

I think Jack and Chuck would just meet in a room somewhere and walk out declaring T&T the confederation champion...

I am sorry to differ with you, for me there's no such things as "B team, C team", there are 11 men on the field kicking the ball playing for their country.

As for the question, really really interesting.

[Atouk]

The Confederations Cup has gone to every four years, one year before the World Cup, in the WC host country (http://www.fifa.com/en/media/index/0,1369,104798,00.html?articleid=104798). So, the next will be in 2009, presumably with the 2007 Gold Cup winner. I'd guess that while a guest could be the Gold Cup winner, the highest-finishing CONCACAF team would be the confederation representative.

Quote from link above:
Furthermore, the Executive Committee upheld a decision reached at its meeting on 6 October 2004, stating that from 2005 onwards, the FIFA Confederations Cup will be staged in a four-year cycle, with the World Cup host nation organising it in the year before the FIFA World Cup™. However, the South American and European champions will no longer be obliged to take part.
Of course, if the European and South American champs don't choose to take part, there's a possibilty of bringing in some other teams, such as 2005 Gold Cup winner, etc. Turkey participated in the last Confederations Cup as an invited guest based on their World Cup 2002 finish. If a team or two bail, I'd guess there'd be an extra invite or two and the tournament would still be kept at 8 teams.

[ChcgoStingInMyBlood]

Originally posted by Balam Acab:
I am sorry to differ with you, for me there's no such things as "B team, C team", there are 11 men on the field kicking the ball playing for their country.

Obviously you've read the CONCACAF gold cup statutes. Is that you Leo Beenhaker?

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219159

[Balam_Acab]

Obviously you've read the CONCACAF gold cup statutes. Is that you Leo Beenhaker?

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219159

Never read that before but I have always thought about it that way. Of course that refers to my personal opinion.

[ChcgoStingInMyBlood]

I'm just having fun with ya, Balam_Acab, and in principle I agree with you. I don't watch Mexico and say to myself, "Damn, where's Blanco?" or, "Why does Columbia have to experiment like this?" or whatever.

I just think that the legitimacy of the competition can definitely be questioned. The top CONCACAF teams and the invitees never bring their full squads 'cause the Cup itself doesn't really mean much.

And it is not so much for me the fact that top players are missing but more about the fact that the teams that are there have a tendency to not have a lot of playing time together, and stupid things happen like the Mexican defensive screw up against Columbia and the ridiculous goals that Costa Rica allowed against Honduras. That kind of stuff borders on the amateurish and I don't think you would see that with the regular squads. Which maybe isn't such a bad thing.

The Columbian 11 have certainly come together and played with a lot of pride since dropping the first two games and it wouldn't surprise me if they end up winning this thing.

[SetPeace]

I still don't see why we need 2 "guest" teams when we have over 40 countries here in the CONCACAF.


On the surface, I agree with your post FIFARay. However, consider that Colombia is ranked 25th by FIFA and South Africa is 39th. The two highest CONCACAF teams that did not qualify for the Gold Cup are Haiti at the 88th spot and El Salvador who are 110th. I don't mind guest teams in the Gold Cup, but it would be embarassing if one of them ever did win it (which they have never done, so far). On the flip side of that, Panama had the lowest ranking of the 12 competing teams (98th), and look at the canaleros now--surprise semi-finalists! I would expect Panama's rating to improve vastly when the August rankings are released. Also, look for Cuba, Guatemala, and Canada to slip a bit.

[FIFARay007]

On the surface, I agree with your post FIFARay. However, consider that Colombia is ranked 25th by FIFA and South Africa is 39th. The two highest CONCACAF teams that did not qualify for the Gold Cup are Haiti at the 88th spot and El Salvador who are 110th. I don't mind guest teams in the Gold Cup, but it would be embarassing if one of them ever did win it (which they have never done, so far). On the flip side of that, Panama had the lowest ranking of the 12 competing teams (98th), and look at the canaleros now--surprise semi-finalists! I would expect Panama's rating to improve vastly when the August rankings are released. Also, look for Cuba, Guatemala, and Canada to slip a bit.

This is all true, but look at Greece at the last Euro. They must have been ranked very very low, but they still (obviously) had a chance. It brought them a lot of glory because it was a low ranked team, upsetting higher ranked teams. If we get rid of the 2 guest teams, we would give 2 more teams, in our confederation, the chance of a lifetime. Great moments are started like that.

Now if a guest team wins, it completely ruins what little image the Gold Cup already has.

[ejo1956]

This is all true, but look at Greece at the last Euro. They must have been ranked very very low, but they still (obviously) had a chance. It brought them a lot of glory because it was a low ranked team, upsetting higher ranked teams. If we get rid of the 2 guest teams, we would give 2 more teams, in our confederation, the chance of a lifetime. Great moments are started like that.

Now if a guest team wins, it completely ruins what little image the Gold Cup already has.

this is such a great point. Who would of thought that a weak country like Greece would win one of fifa's most prestigious titles. we should defintely get rid of having 2 guest teams because it fails to give two lower ranked concacaf teams the opportunity too show how good they are in tournements and it does nothing for this region's world credibility

[SJJ]

I still don't see why we need 2 "guest" teams when we have over 40 countries here in the CONCACAF.

I'm still torn on this. Without guest teams, the quality of competition for the top Concacaf teams would be lacking. (As for Mexico bowing out against Columbia; it matches the USA's ouster by Columbia in 2000. A good team will lose occasionally to another good team, as you know.) However, I also wouldn't want an invitee to win it.

So here's the compromise: have 12 Concacaf teams and four invited teams. Four gruoups, one invitee per group. They participate in group play (and the games count for points), but can't play in the knockout rounds. Only Concacaf teams advance to the knockouts.

[OscarU]

That will be stupid.. (sorry) but why you will come for????

[ZeekLTK]

I still don't see why we need 2 "guest" teams when we have over 40 countries here in the CONCACAF.

Actually there are only 35, but still, that is more than enough to fill a 12 team tournament.

I don't get why we don't run it like the Euro Cup, Asian Cup, or African Cup though... 16 teams: 4 groups of 4, top 2 from each advance to quarterfinals... no "guest" teams.

This year (using FIFA ranks to determine the top 16 and balance the groups), the groups could have been:

Group A:
Mexico
Cuba
Panama
St. Vincent/Grenadines

Group B:
United States
Guatemala
Canada
St. Kitts & Nevis

Group C:
Costa Rica
Trinidad & Tobago
Haiti
Barbados

Group D:
Honduras
Jamaica
El Salvador
St. Lucia

And then (again, going by ranks to determine winners) you have a quarterfinal field:

Mexico vs Trinidad & Tobago
USA vs Jamaica
Costa Rica vs Cuba
Honduras vs Guatemala

Sure the group stage is a little sub-par, but once you get to the later rounds, it will be an "alright" tournament.

[MasterShake29]

Actually there are only 35, but still, that is more than enough to fill a 12 team tournament.

Actually I believe CONCACAF has 40, but 5 are not members of FIFA (like Martinique, which has made the Gold Cup in the past).