Solving the RM problem creatively

[JuLiuSAeNeaS]

Seeing how with the straight up box, we have massive RM problems with the box 4 midfielder formation...

Exhibit A

Some combo of Beasley, EJ, and McBride

--------------Donovan------------

-----Lewis-----------------Ralston

---------------Pablo--------------

-----------Back 3 or 4-------------

----------------Keller--------------

Don't you think it's a time we try a slightly different type of box? I bring to you, the "askew diamond" formation, which can get Dempsey out on the field. It's difficult to describe this but it would be as if you connected the dots around the normal diamond box formation and rotated it 45 degrees...so it's like Lando playing slightly up right a little more, the LM moves up and more towards the center a little, the RM moves back and to the left a little, and the DM plays back and to the left a little. Notice Exhibit B's askew diamond.

Exhibit B

Some combo of Beasley, EJ, and McBride

---------------------Donovan----
------Lewis-----------------------
---------------------Dempsey-----
-----------Pablo----------------

-----------Back 3 or 4-------------

----------------Keller--------------


Wouldn't this be the best way to utilize Dempsey's defensive prowress (his Rm position is drawn back and more central a little more than normal), while still keeping the general jist of the box formation in tact. Also, I can definately see how JOB and Beasley could easily interchange here and would give us the best combo of what each brings to the table. I think the issue should be let's fit the formation to our players, not try to fit the players to our formation...that's why we squeeze Ralston's into our starting 11.

I hope my drawings make some sense...I don't know how else to describe the difference here. Let it rip.

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P.S. Soccer business world...hire me...pretty please? Your job market sucks!

[Daniel le Rouge]

You're confusing terms a bit.

The "diamond" four looks like this for example, though I wouldn't actually play that way:

...........Donovan

O'Brien................Reyna

...........Mastroeni

Width is provided by the outside backs in a flat-four backline.

The "box" four looks more like this:

Beasley............Donovan

O'Brien............Reyna

With width again being provided by the backs.

What you're calling for is actually very close to what we saw today, ala:


................................Ralston

O'Brien...........Olsen

..........Armas

You can play it high, with Donovan for Olsen and Mastroeni for Armas, but you're essentially calling for the same thing. Frankly, we look poor in an offset formation. I'd suggest going to a 3-5-2 before going to an offset diamond (which is what Argentina has been playing for years) or an offset box (which is what Brasil would look like if they had a wing).

The trick to going with an offset formation is to counter-balance it with a high or low player on the opposite side. Cherundolo could provide balance, but he's on the same side as Ralston. Beasley could balance Cherundolo, but that pushes Ralston off the pitch--or gives you two high wings, which makes you top-heavy unless McBride is playing lone striker in a 4-5-1.

The short answer is, we tried it, with results that were indifferent at best, because we simply don't have a left back of MLS, let alone international, caliber in the player pool. Nor have Lewis or Beasley either one distinguished themselves as a high left wing--they're both better deeper or further inside. We need more out of our left side before unbalancing the midfield to the right.

[The Big Ticket]

Am I the only one who finds these kinds of threads nauseating? I swear, every time I see a line-up and a giant paragraph explaining it afterwards, I want to throw up. Who would waste their time and read through all of that? Your opinion doesn't matter, and chances are that you don't have anything profound to say.

[Baysider]

Am I the only one who finds these kinds of threads nauseating? I swear, every time I see a line-up and a giant paragraph explaining it afterwards, I want to throw up. Who would waste their time and read through all of that?

Actually, I find them kind of fun. But to each their own.


Your opinion doesn't matter, and chances are that you don't have anything profound to say.

There's a certain irony to this.

[J_Ibarra]

I love the 4-4-2(box) It will suit our team. solid and also flexible.

BOX 4-4-2

-------MCB-----EJ--------

---Beasley--------Donovan---
-----O'Brien-----Mastroeni----

Boca--------------------Dolo
------Onyewu---Gibbs------

to 3-5-2 Beasley or JOB at LWM. Dolo moves up

-------MCB-----EJ--------

---Beasley--------Donovan---
O'Brien-------------------Dolo
----------Mastroeni--------

--Boca----Onyewu---Gibbs---


to 3-5-3 Beasley moves up and wide as WF


----------MCB-----EJ--------
Beasley---

------------Donovan---
---O'Brien----------------Dolo
---------Mastroeni--------

--Boca----Onyewu---Gibbs---

[5t3v3]

keller
bocanegre ---- pope

dolo -------mastroeni ----------JOB

donovan ---- dempsey --- beasley

johnson ----mcbride

[NBlue]

It seems many of you have decided that Clint Dempsey is (all other things being equal) more important to get onto the pitch than Eddie Lewis. I'm not sure BA agrees with you -- and I don't either -- at least not at this point.

I think a "first choice" US line-up against a team of equal caliber at home is probably something like this:

-----------------KK-----------------
Dolo-----Gooch------Gibbs-----Boca
---------------Pablo----------------
DFB------------Donovan------Lewis
--------BMB--------------EJ--------

The two player who could possibly be included instead would be Reyna and Pope. Dempsey would be the third most likely at this juncture, in my view of BA's thoughts. Of course, BA tailors his line-up to suit the opposition so this type of exercise is somewhat silly. But if we were player a team with essentially the same talent as ourselves -- say Sweden -- on a neutral field -- I think this is the line-up that goes out there assuming all are fit.

[Nutmeg]

I tell you what - Justin Mapp plays an entire season at the same level he's been playing lately, and we may not have to get all that "creative." Put Mapp out there, and he can do the creating for us.

[DutchFootballRulez]

In light of our left-back conundrum. I'd like to see the US over-compensate for it and play Donovan as an advanced LW-AM. with JOB-Pablo-Dempsey central midfield

[swedust]

Posting line-ups and tactical directions is fun. Beats arguing about whether or not Convey/Armas/Sanneh/Twellman/Casey sucks.

However, in any WC06 game we're not packed in (IE: v. Brasil or something), the only way I see us w/a 4-man midfield is if there's 3 forwards in front, or two forwards and one player given complete free rein. In either case, you can do OK with a utility guy at RM (Noonan, Q maybe even, Reyna at this point of his career, etc.).

Now, RM in a 5-man midfield is not quite so difficult because they have more cover: Dolo or Ralston or even possible Beas can do OK here.

[FirstStar]

to 3-5-3 Beasley moves up and wide as WF



I think the 3-5-3 offers exciting potential, but I bet Kasey Keller will be bummed to be left off the pitch.

[J_Ibarra]

I think the 3-5-3 offers exciting potential, but I bet Kasey Keller will be bummed to be left off the pitch.



Ooopps! thats 3-4-3. LOL

[Nutmeg]

This formation stuff is fan-effin-tastic, but you can put 11 mediocre soccer players in whatever tweaked formation you'd like, and you still have 11 mediocre soccer players.

Want to solve the RM problem?

Put a better player there.

Want to solve the LB problem?

Put a better player there.

Want to solve the "What happens if McBride is gone?" forward problem?

Put a better player there.

[MLSNHTOWN]

This formation stuff is fan-effin-tastic, but you can put 11 mediocre soccer players in whatever tweaked formation you'd like, and you still have 11 mediocre soccer players.

Want to solve the RM problem?

Put a better player there.

Want to solve the LB problem?

Put a better player there.

Want to solve the "What happens if McBride is gone?" forward problem?

Put a better player there.

Gosh...why didn't I think of that.....cap Henry.....cap Ronadlinho..... :)

[Scottt1115]

keller
bocanegre ---- pope

dolo -------mastroeni ----------JOB

donovan ---- dempsey --- beasley

johnson ----mcbride

I haven't seen the two man defensive line since....my foosball table.

[todd_knode]

you must have your head in the sand scott, 2-6-2 is all the rage now.

just kidding of course...

Does it really matter what the formation is on paper? This is soccer, not baseball or football where you have a static formation. Once you have the opening kickoff the players respond accordingly to the play on the field. I've never really noticed a difference between having a box and a diamond midfield. It is the skills of the players that dictate how the game will play, not what formation they might be in.
When you have both Beasley and Donovan on the field they have the skill and speed to roam all over the field. Putting them in a static position would hurt their play.
just my opinion.

[Asprilla9]

I love the 4-4-2(box) It will suit our team. solid and also flexible.

BOX 4-4-2

-------MCB-----EJ--------

---Beasley--------Donovan---
-----O'Brien-----Mastroeni----

Boca--------------------Dolo
------Onyewu---Gibbs------

to 3-5-2 Beasley or JOB at LWM. Dolo moves up

-------MCB-----EJ--------

---Beasley--------Donovan---
O'Brien-------------------Dolo
----------Mastroeni--------

--Boca----Onyewu---Gibbs---


to 3-5-3 Beasley moves up and wide as WF


----------MCB-----EJ--------
Beasley---

------------Donovan---
---O'Brien----------------Dolo
---------Mastroeni--------

--Boca----Onyewu---Gibbs---the best thing about this is: three potential formations, NONE of them featured steve ralston. good job. we will need to utilize fast counter attacks in germany 06 ... ralston is too damn slow.

[Adam Zebrowski]

I think you need to evaluate the skill rather than the speed...

I do know this is usa and the nfl 40 speed, vertical leap and strength are ingrained into out consciousness...

but it's the skill level and effectiveness of play which really counts...

I don't expect ralston to be a starter, but if usa is down a goal and a team is bunkering and playing the counter game having lewis on the left and a ralston on the right whipping in crosses is an attacking option...you sit a defender and put in a guy who can cross the ball....

finall, maradona wasn't the speediest of guys, although the 1986 version might have beaten ralston in the 40....but the 1990 wouldn't

[Cou5]

I think the 3-5-3 offers exciting potential, but I bet Kasey Keller will be bummed to be left off the pitch.

or as FIFA looks to yet again raise levels of interest in this country, we are given an advantage by being allowed to field an extra player thus keeping KK happy...

[Deuteriumoxide]

keller
bocanegre ---- pope

dolo -------mastroeni ----------JOB

donovan ---- dempsey --- beasley

johnson ----mcbride

2-6-2???