Jens Lehmann at BVB? How good was he? [Archive]

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Catfish

12 Jul 2005, 12:28 PM

jonam

12 Jul 2005, 02:38 PM

I have really grown to love Mad Jens at Arsenal and was really curious about his past performances at his former clubs.

I'm curious as to:

how many starts did he have at BVB?

How many goals were scored against him when was in goal? Whether it was his fault or not.

Was he a popular player?

Finally, how would you rate his time at BVB?

Thanks.

Imho he was the best goalie we had in the time I follow BVB closely (though we only had four starters: de Beer, Klose, Lehmann, Weidenfeller). He joined us in early 1999 IIRC. His start was ok, in 1999/2000 he had a horrible season like the whole team. Made many blunders and we nearly relegated. But from that season on he really improved and was imho Germany's best goalie from 2002-2004. His reflexes were awesome and especially his air-control was superior. I don't know many goalies that are that good in the air. One of his few weaknesses were his shooting skills and his mind. He really sometimes is a complete idiot. Ah...and some fans really hated him as he is a Schlacke-homegrown player that won the UEFA Cup with them in 1997.

Catfish

12 Jul 2005, 03:52 PM

Imho he was the best goalie we had in the time I follow BVB closely (though we only had four starters: de Beer, Klose, Lehmann, Weidenfeller). He joined us in early 1999 IIRC. His start was ok, in 1999/2000 he had a horrible season like the whole team. Made many blunders and we nearly relegated. But from that season on he really improved and was imho Germany's best goalie from 2002-2004. His reflexes were awesome and especially his air-control was superior. I don't know many goalies that are that good in the air. One of his few weaknesses were his shooting skills and his mind. He really sometimes is a complete idiot. Ah...and some fans really hated him as he is a Schlacke-homegrown player that won the UEFA Cup with them in 1997.
WOW! Very interesting, thanks for responding. I wonder if he is big Schalke 04 supporter or BVB or neither? Mad Jens does have a temper, but I really do love the guy. I'm big on teammates standing up for each other, that is what makes a side great, they become a family. Him getting benched this past season, was great for his career at Arsenal. He came up with a HUGE save in the FA Cup final vs. MUFC.

footyfan1

12 Jul 2005, 04:15 PM

I have really grown to love Mad Jens at Arsenal and was really curious about his past performances at his former clubs.

I'm curious as to:

how many starts did he have at BVB?

128

How many goals were scored against him when was in goal? Whether it was his fault or not.

Don't know that. And it would be hard to remember what goals were his fault and which ones were not. That's subjective and they don't keep stats for that. I will say that most goals I saw him give up at BVB were not his fault.

Was he a popular player?

At the beginning, hell no. BVB fans still hated him for his time at Schalke and his even being credited with a goal in 97/98 to steal a victory away from us in the dying seconds of a match.

However, I believe in his third season, there was an incident where a fan hit him and many more fans became more sympathetic as the club pointed out what he'd done for BVB after he joined us.

I think he'd won over most BVB fans before he departed. I think the only ones who still hated him were the ones who just have no f#ckin' lives of their own.

Finally, how would you rate his time at BVB?

Thanks.

Very successful. At least in my opinion. I think if that BVB team had a better trainer, we would have won at least one more Bundesliga title and possibly another CL title.

Were it not for Sammer's boneheaded last minute decision in the 2002-2003 CL quarter-final to substitute Dede for Amoroso when all we had to do was kill two minutes, I think that BVB team had a SUPERB chance at winning that CL trophy.

That match was the beginning of the end of that potentially great BVB team.

I really believe that BVB team was better than Real, better than Juve and better than AC Milan.

But thanks to Sammer's f#cking stupidity, we'll never know :mad:........

Catfish

12 Jul 2005, 07:00 PM

Very successful. At least in my opinion. I think if that BVB team had a better trainer, we would have won at least one more Bundesliga title and possibly another CL title.
Were it not for Sammer's boneheaded last minute decision in the 2002-2003 CL quarter-final to substitute Dede for Amoroso when all we had to do was kill two minutes, I think that BVB team had a SUPERB chance at winning that CL trophy.
That match was the beginning of the end of that potentially great BVB team.
I really believe that BVB team was better than Real, better than Juve and better than AC Milan.

Sounds like BVB was an unbelievable side that year, incidently that was the 1st year I began following football. I saw the Milan vs. Juve CL final.

footyfan1

12 Jul 2005, 10:52 PM

Sounds like BVB was an unbelievable side that year, incidently that was the 1st year I began following football. I saw the Milan vs. Juve CL final.

We did have a killer starting 11 that season. It was right after we won the title.

I believe this was our lineup.

GK: Lehmann

RWB: Evanilson

CB: C. Metzelder

CB: Woerns

LWB: Dede

DMID: Kehl (In front of defense)

DMID: Reuter

OMID: Rosicky (Playmaker)

OMID: Frings (Attack)

STRIKER: Ewerthon/Amoroso (They split time due to Amoroso's injuries)

STRIKER: Koller

We could have beaten anyone in Europe and would have beaten Real were it not for Sammer being a f#cking idiot!! :mad:

Catfish

12 Jul 2005, 11:23 PM

We did have a killer starting 11 that season. It was right after we won the title.

I believe this was our lineup.

GK: Lehmann

RWB: Evanilson

CB: C. Metzelder

CB: Woerns

LWB: Dede

DMID: Kehl (In front of defense)

DMID: Reuter

OMID: Rosicky (Playmaker)

OMID: Frings (Attack)

STRIKER: Ewerthon/Amoroso (They split time due to Amoroso's injuries)

STRIKER: Koller

How many are left from that team?

footyfan1

12 Jul 2005, 11:39 PM

How many are left from that team?

Six are left from the starting lineup:

1) Christian Woerns - Now older, slower, not as good as he was back then, but still pretty solid.

2) Christoph Metzelder - Still has never recovered 100% of his previous form after that bad achilles injury

3) Dede - His form has gone up and down with the fortunes of the club. However, Dede has made himself a "True Borusse". He's the true fan favorite still in the starting lineup.

4) Sebastian Kehl - Like Dede, his form has gone up and down with the fortunes of the club. I believe only Rosicky and Amoroso were more demoralized by Sammer than Kehl was.

5) Tomas Rosicky - Was fine in my opinion until Sammer brought in Torsten Frings and tried to move Frings into Rosicky's spot. I think we'll see a rejuvenated Rosicky this season. I think we'll finally see the Rosicky we see in the Czech shirt in the BVB shirt.

6) Jan Koller - What BVB has to hope for is that Koller finally gives BVB the Jan Koller who shows up for the Czech National Team.

Another important player from that team who's still with us is Lars Ricken.

"Eisenfuß" Eilts

13 Jul 2005, 07:33 AM

Imho he was the best goalie we had in the time I follow BVB closely (though we only had four starters: de Beer, Klose, Lehmann, Weidenfeller). ...

You mean Klos, Stefan Klos,
played from 1990 till 1998/99 for BVB and currently for Glasgow Rangers.
Imo all keepers mentioned there are quite good
and Weidenfeller is also a big talent, who will make his way.

footyfan1

13 Jul 2005, 10:05 AM

You mean Klos, Stefan Klos,
played from 1990 till 1998/99 for BVB and currently for Glasgow Rangers.
Imo all keepers mentioned there are quite good
and Weidenfeller is also a big talent, who will make his way.

Trust me, he knows. He just made a typing error.......

jonam

13 Jul 2005, 01:42 PM

XIIGermanIIX

17 Jul 2005, 01:16 AM

Klos was the best no doubt guys, Lehmann is not as good as Klos was, Weidenfeller has potential but dont think he'll reach Klos' skillevel

footyfan1

17 Jul 2005, 04:23 PM

Klos was the best no doubt guys, Lehmann is not as good as Klos was, Weidenfeller has potential but dont think he'll reach Klos' skillevel

I don't want to put into words how strongly I disagree with that.......

gunner_21

20 Jul 2005, 01:47 PM

I remember albeit vaguely when Lehmann was at Dortmund and I know I was pretty excited when he came to Arsenal.

footyfan1

20 Jul 2005, 02:00 PM

I remember albeit vaguely when Lehmann was at Dortmund and I know I was pretty excited when he came to Arsenal.

Lehmann can't win either way. You have Kahn fans who hate Lehmann for being better than their "God".

You have "hardcore BVB fans" who hate Lehmann because he was once a Schalke player who beat us with a goal back in 98 and they think Stefan Klos was some kind of "God" when he was never really as good as Lehmann and it's the reason Klos never got a sniff at Germany #1.

And these days you have the fans who just want to remember nothing but Lehmann's mistakes.

Sometimes Jens Lehmann isn't a very likeable guy. I'll admit that I think if I knew him, I don't think we'd be friends.

However, that doesn't take away from what the guy does on the pitch.

At least it shouldn't........

XIIGermanIIX

25 Jul 2005, 09:59 PM

I don't want to put into words how strongly I disagree with that.......

Not to be rude of course, because i've your posts and i respect them on this site, but how can you disagree with that? I mean Klos had tremendous skill and in my opinion should've been Germany's #2 behind Koepke at the time...

footyfan1

25 Jul 2005, 10:27 PM

Not to be rude of course, because i've your posts and i respect them on this site, but how can you disagree with that? I mean Klos had tremendous skill and in my opinion should've been Germany's #2 behind Koepke at the time...

Klos was very good at that time and I loved him then, but I know what he was too. He was Germany's #3. Number one in our hearts, but clearly #3 in Germany.

At that time, he was better than Lehmann was. But that was just that. At that time.

By the time Lehmann joined BVB, he'd caught up and IMHO, became better than Klos was for us. Lehmann should have been Germany #1 two years ago. Klos never deserved to be Germany #1. IMO, Klos never came close. No pun intended..... ;)

I'll admit that I don't like Klos anymore because of the way he left Dortmund.

But I never take credit from anyone because of how I feel about them personally.

I think except for 1999-2000, when the entire team sucked, Lehmann was better for us than Klos ever was. Especially in his last three seasons.

Lehmann also never had the defense in front of him that Klos had.

And if you are thinking about how Klos' teams won more, The difference Klos' teams and Lehmann's teams wasn't goalkeeping.

Klos' teams had a much better defense, much better attack and definitely a much, much, much, much better trainer. I think if you put Lehmann on those teams, they still win just as much.

Just my opinion. I don't mind agreeing to disagree, but I feel Jens Lehmann was the much better keeper for us.

XIIGermanIIX

26 Jul 2005, 02:29 AM

Klos was very good at that time and I loved him then, but I know what he was too. He was Germany's #3. Number one in our hearts, but clearly #3 in Germany.

At that time, he was better than Lehmann was. But that was just that. At that time.

By the time Lehmann joined BVB, he'd caught up and IMHO, became better than Klos was for us. Lehmann should have been Germany #1 two years ago. Klos never deserved to be Germany #1. IMO, Klos never came close. No pun intended..... ;)

I'll admit that I don't like Klos anymore because of the way he left Dortmund.

But I never take credit from anyone because of how I feel about them personally.

I think except for 1999-2000, when the entire team sucked, Lehmann was better for us than Klos ever was. Especially in his last three seasons.

Lehmann also never had the defense in front of him that Klos had.

And if you are thinking about how Klos' teams won more, The difference Klos' teams and Lehmann's teams wasn't goalkeeping.

Klos' teams had a much better defense, much better attack and definitely a much, much, much, much better trainer. I think if you put Lehmann on those teams, they still win just as much.

Just my opinion. I don't mind agreeing to disagree, but I feel Jens Lehmann was the much better keeper for us.

Thanks for the explanation, and just like you said Agree to Disagree.