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subbuteo

11 Jul 2005, 01:51 PM

This guy says Pele is not even in the top three.
Agree or disagree?

The Resident Paisan: Best Ever? (http://www.goal.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=72880&progr=2)

writered21

11 Jul 2005, 01:52 PM

Mike.
Slivinski.

lanman

11 Jul 2005, 01:53 PM

Just wait until tpmazembe sees this (although I'm sure he can just cut and paste from previous similar threads).

DanRod78

11 Jul 2005, 02:00 PM

The guy says that Pele is not the best because he didn't play in Italy.
That shows how much that guy knows about soccer.

The leagues change, good examples of that are: Japan, Mexico, Qatar, among others.

COMPLETELY STUPID ARTICLE, IMO.

tpmazembe

11 Jul 2005, 02:01 PM

Just wait until tpmazembe sees this (although I'm sure he can just cut and paste from previous similar threads).I've retired from that vocation :)

The beauty of the internet is that anyone can proclaim to be an expert. Goal.com is very Serie A biased - his assertion that he never played in Serie A should tell you something right there - and its contributions come from average joe's with little recognized footballing credentials.

Guarantee you that that writer couldn't even recognize the Serie A sides that were on Eterno, or has an idea of Pele's win-loss or scoring records against them. He's too lazy to look it up, or provide such stats to us as a benchmark. Can he give you a judgement of the Brasilian leagues in the '60s compared to the Italian?

Limited playing time in 1958? I've heard that repeated as well. Any pundit worth his salt knows that Pele came in injured to the tournament and missed the firt two group games. He played the last group game, and EVERY knock-out game, including scoring the qualifier against Wales and ending up team top scorer. Every minute of four out of six games, including the last four critical encounters hardly qualifies as "limited" playing time. Absurd.

Suffice to say, with his dismissal of the Brasilian league of the time, he effectively dismissed every great Brasilian up to that era - Zizinho, Garrincha, Fredenreich (sp), Ademir, Didi, Leonidas, Gerson, Rivelino, Tostao, Djalma Santos, Nilton Santos - EVERYONE.

Amazing they ever won a WC.

PS - I'll gladly debate this freelance writer on Goal.com and crush him :D

Ombak

11 Jul 2005, 02:06 PM

Just wait until tpmazembe sees this (although I'm sure he can just cut and paste from previous similar threads).Or me, or any intelligent soccer fan, such as yourself. I mean really, Altafini number 3? Can't be the best if you didn't play in Italy?

I realize "free-lance writer living in NY" basically puts him on the same level as me but boy was that ever a poor opinion piece.

I especially laughed at the suggestion that Pele's ball-handling skills weren't so good.

nicephoras

11 Jul 2005, 02:07 PM

I am also declaring myself to be a freelance football writer. Hey, why not? BigSoccer publishes my stuff all the time for all the internet to see.

lanman

11 Jul 2005, 02:10 PM

In response to the guys obviously Italian biased article.

To say that a player cannot be classed as one of the best as he did not play in Italy is simply ludicrous and also disrespectful to some of the greatest ever (Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Puskas, Di Stefano etc etc).

Anyone who claims Sivori and Altafini are two of the three best players ever should really get out and watch some football from outside his own league. Both were great players but Juventus relied just as much (if not more) on John Charles and while Altafini's 14 goals in 63 is impressive it came in 9 games - three years previously Puskas scored 12 in 7 (1.71/game compared to 1.55) and topped it off with 4 in the final (he also bagged three in the 62 final just for good measure).

For decades, the Italian League has been the most competitive, with rich teams attracting the best players from around the planet.

I take it he forgot that from 1966 Italian clubs could not sign any foreign players for a number of years.

tpmazembe

11 Jul 2005, 02:12 PM

I take it he forgot that from 1966 Italian clubs could not sign any foreign players for a number of years.He's not equipped to know these things.

Ombak

11 Jul 2005, 02:13 PM

I am also declaring myself to be a freelance football writer. Hey, why not? BigSoccer publishes my stuff all the time for all the internet to see.Pffft, I already have.

I even have my own business card already.

"International Football Expert"

Seriously.

No, really, that wasn't a joke... I did make these business cards and....

Forget it.

writered21

11 Jul 2005, 02:14 PM

This guy says Pele is not even in the top three.
Agree or disagree?

The Resident Paisan: Best Ever? (http://www.goal.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=72880&progr=2)

I just read that ... yikes ... sparks a debate, who has the better of it ... Mark Lisi or Clemente Lisi.

I wonder if either are related to Christine Lisi from ESPN radio. Nevermind, they hate soccer. ;)

Ombak

11 Jul 2005, 02:17 PM

BTW, this automatically puts Lalas ahead of hundreds, nay thousands of central defenders... doesn't it.

Hell, worse, it puts Materazzi ahead of the same thousands!

unclesox

11 Jul 2005, 02:19 PM

This guy says Pele is not even in the top three.
Agree or disagree?

I disagree. Pele's in the top two, not top three.

The author of that piece is obviously a fan of Serie A. (ugh)

Pele was denied the opportunity to play outside Brazil by the country's government, who declared Pele a national treasure.

Pele may have had "limited playing time" in 1958, but when he did play, oh did he ever!
He may have missed much of the '62 World Cup, but Hungary and Portugal obviously viewed him as a serious threat in 1966 as they went out of their way to make sure he played as little as possible.

In talking about Altafini, the author only talks about his outstanding 1963 European Cup campaign. "A truly astonishing feat"? Absolutely. But one season in one competition isn't enough to place him in the all-time top fifty, let alone top three.
Besides, Pele's Santos defeated Altafini's Milan in the '63 World Clubs Cup. Pele scored four goals over the two legs to Altafini's one to give Santos their second consecutive Intercontinental trophy.

Oh, and Pele's Brazil thrashed Serie A's best in the '70 World Cup final.

Pele and Maradona are top two.
Who's number one? Let me flip a coin. ;)

subbuteo

11 Jul 2005, 02:20 PM

I just read that ... yikes ... sparks a debate, who has the better of it ... Mark Lisi or Clemente Lisi.

I wonder if either are related to Christine Lisi from ESPN radio. Nevermind, they hate soccer. ;)
Well said and I agree.

van Basten, Zidane...couldn't they be on that list if Serie A is a pre-requisite?

I do agree with this part:
Fans will never agree on who is the greatest ever.

very poignant :D

DanRod78

11 Jul 2005, 02:35 PM

DanRod78

11 Jul 2005, 02:37 PM

I've always heard that Brazil 1970 is the best national team there has ever been.
We should name all the great players that have never played in Serie A to clearly show how wrong this guy is:
- Ronaldinho
- Roberto Carlos
- Cubillas (Peru)
- Di Stefano
- Hugo Sanches(Mex)
- Aimar
- Riquelme

Well said and I agree.
van Basten, Zidane...couldn't they be on that list if Serie A is a pre-requisite?

Zidane played in Juventus

Bertje

11 Jul 2005, 02:37 PM

I've always heard that Brazil 1970 is the best national team there has ever been.
We should name all the great players that have never played in Serie A to clearly show how wrong this guy is:
- Ronaldinho
- Roberto Carlos
- Cubillas (Peru)
- Di Stefano
- Hugo Sanches(Mex)

Yes, I'm sure those those are all the great players who never played in the Serie A. :rolleyes:

Zidane played in Juventus

I'm sure Turin isn't in Italy. You, my friend, must be GOD! :rolleyes:

Ombak

11 Jul 2005, 02:39 PM

Yes, I'm sure those those are all the great players who never played in the Serie A. :rolleyes:You don't really think he meant that list as "all" the players he was thinking of do you?

subbuteo

11 Jul 2005, 02:40 PM

funny stuff danno :p

unclesox

11 Jul 2005, 02:40 PM