Guatemalans Playing Abroad

[anthony85]

Yes Ruiz is living in L.A. right now. I agree with you completely that the MLS fans are naive. Ruiz does not like playing in Dallas, or in MLS for that matter. He knows he deserves to play in a more competitive league. It's funny because if you go to the FC Dallas threads all they do is try to rationalize how Ruiz is gonna stay.

[General Manager]

Never paint MLS fans with a wide brush. Yes there are some that are naive but most are very knowledgeable of the Soccer/Football world. Its a shame about Ruiz but some of the problems he has had in MLS are his own doing. The incessant diving hurt his rep and his back talking to refs that eventually just wouldn't call a legit foul on him because of his rep as a diver. His habit of not showing up for training and not telling the team where he was was one of the reasons the Galaxy got rid of him. That being said he is a good player that must mature some cause if he pulled some that stuff in Caliguri or any other top level club he wont last long.

[Guatefc]

Never paint MLS fans with a wide brush. Yes there are some that are naive but most are very knowledgeable of the Soccer/Football world. Its a shame about Ruiz but some of the problems he has had in MLS are his own doing. The incessant diving hurt his rep and his back talking to refs that eventually just wouldn't call a legit foul on him because of his rep as a diver. His habit of not showing up for training and not telling the team where he was was one of the reasons the Galaxy got rid of him. That being said he is a good player that must mature some cause if he pulled some that stuff in Caliguri or any other top level club he wont last long.

i thought galaxy traded him because of landon donavon??? and ruiz wouldn't sign a long term deal so the
preferably FC dallas fans are the naive ones who think ruiz would stay and he "loves dallas", he's not jamie moreno he wants get the f out of there espciallt that away from Fc dallas and there ugly @ss jerseys, that diving was over exaggerated it was that often

[anthony85]

Never paint MLS fans with a wide brush. Yes there are some that are naive but most are very knowledgeable of the Soccer/Football world. Its a shame about Ruiz but some of the problems he has had in MLS are his own doing. The incessant diving hurt his rep and his back talking to refs that eventually just wouldn't call a legit foul on him because of his rep as a diver. His habit of not showing up for training and not telling the team where he was was one of the reasons the Galaxy got rid of him. That being said he is a good player that must mature some cause if he pulled some that stuff in Caliguri or any other top level club he wont last long.

I would act up too if I averaged a goal a game in my first year and still got paid less than a plumber.

[General Manager]

I would act up too if I averaged a goal a game in my first year and still got paid less than a plumber.


Well it's paid off hasn't it. Do you think he would have receive the offers from caliguri ,rangers or san luis if he didn't play in MLS. Sure he was under paid but the gave him a new contract and the contract their currently offering is real high. Many players go through the same process in MLS you simply dont get paid much money. What MLS does for the player is give them a chance to shine on a stage that many in Europe see. Just look at the players that in the last two years have moved from MLS and compare that with any league in Concacaf and you'll see that MLS has more players going on to Euro sides than any other league. Thats why you play in MLS if your a young player, its a chance at bigger things.

[USAfutbol]

What MLS does for the player is give them a chance to shine on a stage that many in Europe see. Just look at the players that in the last two years have moved from MLS and compare that with any league in Concacaf and you'll see that MLS has more players going on to Euro sides than any other league. Thats why you play in MLS if your a young player, its a chance at bigger things.

Except for the fact that:
1) MLS ties players up into non-guaranteed contracts with options for three years following the player's first season
2) Most MLS players have no EU passport so it is difficult to move abroad and get a work permit in most leagues
3) Most Euro leagues are unfamiliar with the true quality of MLS because they don't compete against it.

It's not that easy for the most talented younger players in MLS to leave. Not only do they need the ability to get a work permit, but they also need to be free of contract frequently (unless they're super kid-wonder and can demand a transfer fee - Beasley, Convey, etc.)

[Guatefc]

Except for the fact that:
1) MLS ties players up into non-guaranteed contracts with options for three years following the player's first season
2) Most MLS players have no EU passport so it is difficult to move abroad and get a work permit in most leagues
3) Most Euro leagues are unfamiliar with the true quality of MLS because they don't compete against it.

It's not that easy for the most talented younger players in MLS to leave. Not only do they need the ability to get a work permit, but they also need to be free of contract frequently (unless they're super kid-wonder and can demand a transfer fee - Beasley, Convey, etc.)


this is very tru but ruiz international experience tells his whole story,

he had 10 goals in WCQ

and i belive he eligible to play in europe

since two no-eu player from guatemala are playing in europe
Pezzarossi 26 and swisher 27

i think swisher is the only one who had it tough permit wise, because pezza has an italian passport

[General Manager]

[QUOTE=USAfutbol]Except for the fact that:

2) Most MLS players have no EU passport so it is difficult to move abroad and get a work permit in most leagues


This is wrong you only need an eu passport to get into the English league. The German, Italian, French and pretty much every where else there is no serious work permit issues. So a player that is Ruiz's quality can find a home very easily in europe. and the third claim about euro teams not realizing the quality of MLS is also bogus. Just look and the offers/trials Ruiz had, Portsmouth, had an offer from rangers and now Caliguri. Jeff Parke of the Metrostars had a trial with Heereven of the ere divisie, Michal Bradley who trialled with Parke was almost offered a contract until Hereeven realized he was under contract with the Metrostars. I could go on and on about players moving from MLS to Euro teams. ALOT of teams in Europe are aware that there is good quality in this league so that is simply bull. And I also realize that players do not get great contracts but hey Im sure If you wanted to go to an Ivy league school it would be expensive but if you excelled there you are pretty much assured a nice living for the rest of your life. while excelling at a local community college wont.

[USAfutbol]

[QUOTE=USAfutbol]Except for the fact that:
This is wrong you only need an eu passport to get into the English league. The German, Italian, French and pretty much every where else there is no serious work permit issues. So a player that is Ruiz's quality can find a home very easily in europe.

Allow me to begin by stating that I'm a big fan of Ruiz and MLS. Now, to offer a counter argument: Germany (up till last week), Italy, Spain,
France, Holland - all these leagues have VERY strict foreign player allowances
and impose certain rules that render procurement of a contract
extremely difficult for non-EU players.

Here's an example for you:

Your boy Michael Bradley would need to demonstrate footballing
proficiency at an extremely high level to receive a contract from a Dutch club
should he not have an EU passport. Why? Because the FA in Holland has
mandatory minimum salary requirements for non-EU players at the tune of
around 400,000 Euro. That type of money is typically allocated to
immediate impact players, hence the reason Beasley, Gibbs and O'Brien (all
US National Team starting quality) are there, but few other Americans
are if they have no EU passport. Do you think Jeff Parke or Michael
Bradley are good? Sounds like you may. Do you think they're good enough to
play over there? Sounds like you do (and this isn't even the debate at
hand). Do you think they'll command a contract of 400,000 Euro or higher
if he has no EU passport? Leave it up to the coach to decide, but I
think you would even admit that those are tall requirements.

Oh, and as you identified, each of these guys are under contract with
MLS, for a number of years at that due to options on the player
agreement, so they'd have to sell these guys in order for a move anytime soon.
And being under contract with MLS is likely not something a player or
their representative just "realize" while they're overseas on trial,
especially when their father is a senior member of the league's
establishment.

Here's another example. Carlos Ruiz wants to go to Italy and play but he has to compete for one of three spots on a team in a top league in Europe which are already filled with contracted players. This means that the club literally has to sell one of three non-EU players to make space for Ruiz IF they think he's an upgrade that is necessity at that point. This introduces a whole host of variables that are far more complicated than simply: is the kid good enough?

So you see, non-EU's getting contracts in major Euro leagues is clearly
not as easy as you have stated. In fact, you have been quite flip about how easy it is outside of England. Oddly enough, Italy has, perhaps, the second most stringent foreign restrictions to the UK. And they're a close second.

Again, check your facts before you make such assertions. We all want Ruiz to make it (I think we do). And we all want MLS to get the respect that it deserves. However, you've really jumped the gun here with such spurious statements that are not grounded in fact. Not trying to be combative at all, but I think we need to be fair to the players that we support and what type of uphill battle they have to fight to make it in Europe.

E.g. Pezza is there right now and Ruiz is not largely because of his passport! It's not simply because Ruiz isn't good enough or because his agent (the biggest in the US) doesn't have enough contacts.

[USAfutbol]

this is very tru but ruiz international experience tells his whole story,

he had 10 goals in WCQ

and i belive he eligible to play in europe



Agreed entirely. I was just trying to shed some light on why it's more difficult for Ruiz to find a new gig. He's got the game to make it there, it's just that the supply of jobs for non-EU players is limited by a whole host of restrictions in various of the top leagues. That was all I was trying to point out. Should Ruiz have had access to an EU passport, I truely believe that there would be more clubs in the hunt for his services right now.

[General Manager]

USA FOOTBALL I am well aware of those rules but you stated that its not easy to get a WP but it is easy. except in england yes there are limits on Non-EU players but if Caliguri needs the fire power there is nothing to stop them from signing Ruiz. They simply sign him then release the other player not uncommon in euro soccer. You make it seem that NO team would try and put Ruiz on there squad cause of those rules. but the fact remains that if the player is good the clubs WILL find a way to put that player on the squad. The only place that this cant happen is in England cause of there strict WP rules. England is harder to get a WP than Italy simply because You must play in 75% of your nations matches plus that nation must be ranked no less than 75th by FIFA. While in italy if the club has the open slot they simply sign the player and that's that. I am also aware of the Dutch WP rules and no I don't think Parke would cut there maybe Bradley in a few years but surely not Parke. I was using that to show that playing in MLS is a good springboard for young players. But that being said Bradley was going to be offered a 400,000
a year deal until Heerenveen balk at the possible transfer fee.

[USAfutbol]

In order to get a work permit you need an employer sponsoring you for residency, so you need a contract offer. Contract offers are extremely difficult for non-EU players to procure based on the previous statements, which you seemingly agree with. You're mincing words here.

Bottom line is simple: no EU passport and the player is at a huge disadvantage garnering a contract in the big Euro leagues. Clubs can't do what MLS does and just simply cut a player to make space. Euro contracts are guaranteed and therefore must be mutually terminated or sold to make space. This is not an easy or quick process given the fact that it all has to be done within a 5 week window twice a year. Finding a guy a technical director likes may not be hard. Finding a willing taker at the right place for the player that said club needs to move is often much harder. Further, what happens in the common event that the weaker links on the pitch are not the foreign players but the domestic ones? In that situation, by moving one foreign player to sign another because that's the only way to bring in reinforcements, the club is net-net not where they want to be.

How does this relate back to Ruiz? Well, it just means that there's more to this than simply whether he's good enough to contribute at a high level. It's just not that simple!

[anthony85]

No news on Ruiz yet? :confused: What's the latest on his situation?

[slideslide]

We all want to know what happens but anthony you got to relax

[anthony85]

We all want to know what happens but anthony you got to relax

Yeah I guess I gotta relax, it's just that I dont have a tv in my dorm and my only mode of getting any news is the internet.

I see that you have Italy as your team. So im assuming that you're familiar with the Italian league. Do you want to see Ruiz in serie A? How do you think he wouldl fare? Do you think he would be well received?

[Guatefc]

Yeah I guess I gotta relax, it's just that I dont have a tv in my dorm and my only mode of getting any news is the internet.

I see that you have Italy as your team. So im assuming that you're familiar with the Italian league. Do you want to see Ruiz in serie A? How do you think he wouldl fare? Do you think he would be well received?
if you want to look at tv for info your better off waitin on the internet there not saying much on tv either, except on centroamericatv on sundays at 11:00pm east coast time when deportivo guatevision comes on they'll have some updates on ruiz

[lilchapin]

i think ruiz should play in europe and whatever happens
not to play in mexico!!!!!!
i mean pezzarosi's already in spain
http://www.prensalibre.com/pl/2006/enero/13/depor.html[/URL]
so pesca should do better or i think so,
el pando suks and thats sad
Hope he does better on Febuary 19 vs USA (friendly)
anyone got news on the fish?:confused:

[Toronto Papi]

I don't...
but i wanted to ask you if there are a lot of chapines in Montreal??? I was there not too long ago. Just wondering, hit me back.
i think ruiz should play in europe and whatever happens
not to play in mexico!!!!!!
i mean pezzarosi's already in spain
http://www.prensalibre.com/pl/2006/enero/13/depor.html[/URL]
so pesca should do better or i think so,
el pando suks and thats sad
Hope he does better on Febuary 19 vs USA (friendly)
anyone got news on the fish?:confused:

[slideslide]

Anthony I would be excited if Ruiz went to Italy i think that not only will he get better it will also make him realize that he has a long way he can improve.

It will teach him not to get pissed off as much as he is used to getting. I love Ruiz but I think that a move to Italy will be good for his personality and he will get less carded

[Guatefc]

Anthony I would be excited if Ruiz went to Italy i think that not only will he get better it will also make him realize that he has a long way he can improve.

It will teach him not to get pissed off as much as he is used to getting. I love Ruiz but I think that a move to Italy will be good for his personality and he will get less carded


they way it looks right now is that MLS Has a the best offer, and Municipal is still shopping around for a buyer on ruiz full rights. A WC appearance would of helped him around august of this year

FC dallas GM supposedly said they have the best offer but who knows if thats true since they have a "Cap" and they are paying Eddie johnson a 800k a year and 2 other players around 200k so i find it hard to believe they are offering ruiz a 700k plus a year contract unless they trade a few players