Kicker Rankings: 2005/1

[extranjero]

Kicker has begun to publish their latest rankings of players in the Bundesliga. For those who don't know they only rank actual performances of the last half year.

Goalkeepers (http://kicker.de/content/news/artikel.asp?folder=3100&object=317280&liga=1&saison=2005/06&spieltag=1&gruppe=16986)

World Class

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International Class

1. Roman Weidenfeller (Borussia Dortmund) 24 (K-7.)
2. Oliver Kahn (Bayern München) 36 (B)
3. Frank Rost ( FC Schalke 04) 32 (IK-1.)
4. Robert Enke (Hannover 96) 27 (IK-2.)

Im weiteren Kreis

5. Andreas Reinke (Werder Bremen) 36 (IK-3.)
6. Timo Hildebrand (VfB Stuttgart) 26 (K-5.)
7. Christian Fiedler (Hertha BSC) 30 (K-12.)
8. Jörg Butt (Bayer Leverkusen) 31 (K-11.)
9. Simon Jentzsch (VfL Wolfsburg) 29 (K-4.)
10. Thomas Ernst (1. FC Kaiserslautern) 37 (-)

Blickfeld

Mathias Hain (Arminia Bielefeld) 32 (B)
Kasey Keller (Borussia Mönchengladbach) 35 (-)
Mathias Schober (Hansa Rostock) 29 (-)
Dimo Wache (FSV Mainz 05) 31 (K-8.)

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Centre Backs (http://kicker.de/content/news/artikel.asp?folder=3100&object=317288&liga=1&saison=2005/06&spieltag=1&gruppe=16986)

World Class

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International Class

1. Lucio (Bayern München) 27 (K-6.)
2. Marcelo Bordon (FC Schalke 04) 29 (IK-1.)
3. Valérien Ismael (Werder Bremen) 29 (K-3.)

Im weiteren Kreis

4. Per Mertesacker (Hannover 96) 20 (B)
5. Robert Kovac (Bayern München) 31 (-)
6. Josip Simunic (Hertha BSC) 27 (K-5.)
7. Daniel van Buyten (Hamburger SV) 27 (K-10.)
8. Christian Wörns (Borussia Dortmund) 33 (B)

Blickfeld

Petr Gabriel (Arminia Bielefeld) 32 (K-12.)
Kevin Hofland (VfL Wolfsburg) 26 (K-15.)
Petri Pasanen (Werder Bremen) 24 (-)
Dick van Burik (Hertha BSC) 31 (-)

[LordR]

Kicker uses to underrate players, Lucio is CLEARLY world-class.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Yea, Lucio is WC and Simunic is definitely international class, I don't know why he isn't

[96Squig]

2 Hanoverians up there, way to go I guess.

[Germanshepherd]

And I think Kasey Keller at Gladbach did very well. He wasnt worse than Reinke, Butt etc.

[extranjero]

Kicker argues that Lucio would be World Class if he would lose the ball less often going forwards. They criticize that he is sometimes too reckless which is a fair point IMO. He is supposed to be a _defender_ foremost, after all. Though there is no question that his potential is that of a World Class player. They also say that he showed his class at the Confed Cup -- being rated as the best CB there -- where he could concentrate on his defense.

Simunic should perhaps have been rated higher, I agree. He was the main reason why Hertha had the best defensive record in the league.

As for Keller, well, he had many good games but -- according to the matchday grades of Kicker -- he had perhaps too many weak games to be rated higher. Reinke and Butt hardly had any weak games.

[footyfan1]

Kicker argues that Lucio would be World Class if he would lose the ball less often going forwards. They criticize that he is sometimes too reckless which is a fair point IMO. He is supposed to be a _defender_ foremost, after all. Though there is no question that his potential is that of a World Class player. They also say that he showed his class at the Confed Cup -- being rated as the best CB there -- where he could concentrate on his defense.

Simunic should perhaps have been rated higher, I agree. He was the main reason why Hertha had the best defensive record in the league.

As for Keller, well, he had many good games but -- according to the matchday grades of Kicker -- he had perhaps too many weak games to be rated higher. Reinke and Butt hardly had any weak games.


Agree with all you said. Especially on Keller. I'm a huge Keller fan, but not only did he have a few weak matches (None near the end though), he also didn't play as many BL matches as the others.......

I think they got the #1 keeper right though! LOL!! :) (I AM biased!)

[SirManchester]

They sure have a strict definition of World Class, don't they....No one is WC according to those guidelines....

[footyfan1]

They sure have a strict definition of World Class, don't they....No one is WC according to those guidelines....


"World Class" should be a "protected" guideline. It's almost as "abused" as American sports fans abuse the word "Dynasty".

That being said, I do disagree with Kicker's assessment of Lucio. I think Lucio is "World Class" in any sense of the word. I can't think of another central defender I'd rather have.

[SirManchester]

"World Class" should be a "protected" guideline. It's almost as "abused" as American sports fans abuse the word "Dynasty".

That being said, I do disagree with Kicker's assessment of Lucio. I think Lucio is "World Class" in any sense of the word. I can't think of another central defender I'd rather have.

He is a great attacking center back, no doubt about it.

My ideal CB pairing would be something like a Hypia/Carragher and Lucio.

[scorpio81]

where are the midfield and forward rankings?

[DanielHSV]

where are the midfield and forward rankings?
It's a series published over a couple of weeks. Forwards and Germans playing abroad is the last part.

[Catfish]

Kicker uses to underrate players, Lucio is CLEARLY world-class.
YEAH! He was an absolute madman vs. Arg in the Conf. Cup Final....talk about everywhere. Impressive to say the least.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

"World Class" should be a "protected" guideline. It's almost as "abused" as American sports fans abuse the word "Dynasty".

That being said, I do disagree with Kicker's assessment of Lucio. I think Lucio is "World Class" in any sense of the word. I can't think of another central defender I'd rather have.

Iono if he is the best, but he is one of the best: here is my top 10 around the world (center backs only, or center backs/wing backs, since players like Maldini qualifies as such)

1. Nesta
2. Terry
3. Ivan Cordoba
4. Stam
5. Lucio
6. Campbell
7. Maldini
8. Roberto Ayala
9. Ricardo Carvalho
10. Rio Ferdinand

As for in die Bundesliga, I'd go (based on ability and performance)...

1. Lucio
2. Simunic
3. van Buyten
4. Ismael
5. Christoph Metzelder
6. Woerns
7. Mertesacker
8. Babbel
9. Juan
10. Bordon

[footyfan1]

Iono if he is the best, but he is one of the best: here is my top 10 around the world (center backs only, or center backs/wing backs, since players like Maldini qualifies as such)

1. Nesta
2. Terry
3. Ivan Cordoba
4. Stam
5. Lucio
6. Campbell
7. Maldini
8. Roberto Ayala
9. Ricardo Carvalho
10. Rio Ferdinand


I love Nesta and Stam, but I'd take Lucio ahead of all four guys you put ahead of him on this list.


As for in die Bundesliga, I'd go (based on ability and performance)...

1. Lucio
2. Simunic
3. van Buyten
4. Ismael
5. Christoph Metzelder
6. Woerns
7. Mertesacker
8. Babbel
9. Juan
10. Bordon


I can basically agree here except I'd have Simunic below van Buyten and Ismael. I'd also have Christoph Metzelder at #10 at best right now. Again, when it comes to CMetz, I think you guys are basically using memories instead of his performances for Dortmund since he's been back.

Give him some time this season to show he's truly back. He never did that by the end of last season.

At least not in the opinion of many Dortmund fans. I know you guys want him to "jump back to his best" for Germany's sake, but again, at the end of last season, he just wasn't there yet.

Having to play out on the right wing for a lot of that time last season didn't help CMetz either.

This season, unless Philipp Degen gets hurt, you should see CMetz in the middle full-time along with Christian Woerns for Dortmund.

And I think CMetz will make it all the way back. But he isn't yet. When he is, you'll truly see it.

If he were, you would have seen him at the Confederations Cup.......

[Germanshepherd]

I can basically agree here except I'd have Simunic below van Buyten and Ismael. I'd also have Christoph Metzelder at #10 at best right now. Again, when it comes to CMetz, I think you guys are basically using memories instead of his performances for Dortmund since he's been back.

Having to play out on the right wing for a lot of that time last season didn't help CMetz either.

This season, unless Philipp Degen gets hurt, you should see CMetz in the middle full-time along with Christian Woerns for Dortmund.


Ive read van Marvijk confirmed that Metzelder will play in the middle this season. Im really starting to like Bert.

[footyfan1]

Ive read van Marvijk confirmed that Metzelder will play in the middle this season. Im really starting to like Bert.


Me too!! :)

[The Old Lady Hertha]

I love Nesta and Stam, but I'd take Lucio ahead of all four guys you put ahead of him on this list.
I really like Lucio, but Nesta and Stam are the 2 most dominating backs in the world. The fact that they are in the same club team makes them even more dominating. Terry reads the game the best in the world, and I think thats the most important thing. Lucio is a good combination of power and reading the game well.





I can basically agree here except I'd have Simunic below van Buyten and Ismael. I'd also have Christoph Metzelder at #10 at best right now. Again, when it comes to CMetz, I think you guys are basically using memories instead of his performances for Dortmund since he's been back.





I know that I am biased here, but Simunic was the best defender on the best defensive team. van Buyten and Simunic are very similar in stature and build and they are very much the same in playing style as well. Ismael is different, he's not as physically intimidating as either, but he has more style and technique, something that you would rather have a wing back have. But he is effective I'll give you that. I think these 3 have a good case to be 2nd.

[footyfan1]

I really like Lucio, but Nesta and Stam are the 2 most dominating backs in the world. The fact that they are in the same club team makes them even more dominating. Terry reads the game the best in the world, and I think thats the most important thing. Lucio is a good combination of power and reading the game well.


I'd think Nesta and Stam being on the same team makes them even less dominating.

Because one has the other there to back him up when he makes a mistake. Not to mention Paolo Maldini.

They sure didn't stop Juve and Liverpool from smacking them.

I don't think Stam is the player now that he was with Manchester United.

Still very good, but I'd still take Lucio above him.

Nesta, I rate a bit higher than Stam, but still not above Lucio.

Guess we just have a difference of opinion. Imagine that! LOL!! :) :D




I know that I am biased here, but Simunic was the best defender on the best defensive team.

I don't see where that designation means Simunic is necessarily better than van Buyten or Ismael.

He might be, but I don't think being "the best defender on the best defensive team" necessarily means that.

Is Simunic truly "the key" or just a "piece of the puzzle"?

A couple of years ago, that was Dortmund, but I wasn't telling people Christoph Metzelder was the best defender in the league because he wasn't. Close, but he wasn't.

I don't think being important to Hertha necessarily makes Simunic "better" than van Buyten or Ismael.

I think you could put either of those two in Simunic's place and Hertha doesn't skip a beat.

They might just be improved with one of the other two.




van Buyten and Simunic are very similar in stature and build and they are very much the same in playing style as well. Ismael is different, he's not as physically intimidating as either, but he has more style and technique, something that you would rather have a wing back have. But he is effective I'll give you that. I think these 3 have a good case to be 2nd.


We agree there! :)

[SirManchester]

Carra/Hypia is the best CB pairing in the world at the moment. I think both are better defenders than Lucio.

Lucio is just better going up but if you want to talk about a solid CB defender that always gets the job done, look no further than the Liverpool pair.