Teaching a flat back 3

[mzbrand]

My u-8's are starting to see some pretty effective crossing attacks and I think it's time to teach them to play better defense in front of the goal. We play 9 on the field and I'm thinking of a flat back 3 formation. But I'm not sure how to properly teach this.

At this age I have the best luck teaching zones using lines on the field. For instance, the penalty box lines, the posts, and the center line. My original thought was to tell the wing backs to never cross the center line. But recently several teams have had two shooters in the box, one on the far post and one on the center line. So I'm wondering if one of the defenders needs to stay in front of the far post.

Of course the catch is that this is a rec team and so I only have one practice a week to teach everything about the game. What ever I teach them has to be simple enough for an 8 year hold to pick up quickly.

Does anyone have experience with this? What's worked for evolving a defense as the attacking teams learn to cross and place a forward on the far post?

[spartanpele]

Forget the zonal play for now and concentrate on (1) development of individual and team skills (2) teaching the ins and outs of the basic game, and most importantly, (3) having fun. Remember these are 7 years olds!

Don't worry about the score or even winning at the U8 age level. Start with working on basic 1v1 defending and attacking. Work on basic passing, trapping, dribbling/footskills, shooting. Teach the kids to pass and move on offense, to pressure the ball on defense, and support the defender too.

Teach the kids to play both offense and defense and don't get locked into saying things like, "never cross the midfield line if you're a defender", "always clear the ball long on defense", etc. Let the kids make mistakes and use it as an opportunity to teach them the game. Don't create robots who only stand in one spot. Promote creativity...let them experiment and learn what to do and not to do.

The whole idea of playing flat is to work the offside trap, etc, and at the U8 age level that shouldn't be a priority.

Instead, concentrate on solid man to man marking, but, also teach your kids that its ok to switch players vs following a player all over the field...which down the road will become...tada...zonal play. ok?

Best of luck...!

[Mr Martin]

I agree with the prior reply about focussing on individual skills at this age, especially 1v1 attacking and 1v1 defending techniques. These are the building blocks for future development.

HOWEVER, be careful about assuming that a flat-back or zonal defensive setup means teaching an offside trap. The two DO NOT have to be connected at all. I agree that teaching a trap to kids this young would be a waste of time.

BUT, you can still teach zonal defensive concepts by simply teaching the kids proper 1st/2nd defender techniques (or "pressure/cover" in some terminology). If you teach the 1st defender to apply pressure on the ball while the 2nd defender learns to provide cover, you are already teaching the foundations of zonal defense. You can and should work on this stuff with kids this age.

Good luck!

[schmuckatelli]

I've seen this taught a couple ways. First, walk your team through the concept of pressure/cover/support in defense: The first defender is the one closest to the ball. Everybody knows he's the first defender because he yells "Pressure!" when he engages the attacking player. The second defender is the next player, who generally is on a diagonal to the first defender, covering him/her if the attacker shakes loose. It's important to teach the team that the second defender should not be square to the first, nor directly behind. When he/she is in position, he should yell, "Cover!" which lets the first defender know he can start to move in to kill the attack. So now you have defensive pressure and defense in depth. The third defender provides defense at width, so the attacking team cannot easily beat the defense by switching fields. When he moves into position, he calls, "Support!" When the ball moves in the attack, your defense moves with it, regroups, and calls its new assignments. If you enforce the communication, your defenders get used to talking and listening to each other.
I have heard of coaches actually tethering the three/four defenders together so they have only 10 yards of line from one to the next. That's pretty literal (and worse, they could accidentally clothes-line attackers running through), but your defenders should be given to understand that they should move and play with that sense of organization: when one moves, all move as a unit.
You can structure exercises to test your unit's organization. Have a small attacking team (2 strikers and a midfielder) attack a goal defended by a GK and three defenders. Encourage your attackers to move the ball up and back and side to side to make the defensive unit shift around and re-organize. Watch and correct if they lose their shape or lose their compact organization. They'll screw it up a few times, but pretty soon they'll defend more like a unit.
Make sure you interchange the parts, so all your defenders have a chance to work together. Remember that your "ace" center back may have a cold or turn an ankle, so give everybody a shot at it. Even attacking players can learn.
Good luck!

[spartanpele]

Yep...both responses are what I'm talking about.

Skip working on the trap, focus on first person pressure, 2nd cover, etc. If nothing else, with kids that age, teach that if the person with the ball goes by the 1st defender, then the next closest player has to move over to cover the player with the ball. Something very simple with 7 yr olds.

Within the defensive part its ok to link the lines of defense vertically (def-mid-striker), and horizontally (LD-CD-RD), (Ex: double teaming), but, be sure your players know that they can't be stuck in lanes on attack as thats very predictable and removes the creativity from the attack.

The only fear about zonal at that young an age is that sometimes the kids will automatically sprint back to a specific spot on the field vs recognizing the play and whats happening. They can become robotic about "guarding their area on the field", vs recognizing who to guard.

If nothing else...start with the basics of proper 1v1 defending, work up to 2v2 defending, 3v3, 4v4. If the players can understand their roles, it becomes interchangeable (defs, mids). But the first priority is simply 1v1s.

[Ray Luca]

"Skip working on the trap,"

Could not help but wonder who is working on the trap? Who said anything about the trap?

[mzbrand]

In fact there is no off-sides rule in our current (indoor) league, and in our fall outdoor I wouldn't trust the refs to call offsides. The trap would probably cost us more than it would gain.

I have taught 1st defender/2nd defender and it's worked well for several seasons. But now we're facing teams posting two forwards in the penalty box, one in the center and one near the far post. This means we need a 3rd defender to deny the cross, and our 2nd defender needs to both "cover" and mark. This is what I'm looking for in a flat three -- to train the far/3rd defender to mark any players on the far post.

In general I agree with spartanpele's coaching philosophy. My team is very enthusiastic (still happily practicing in 95 degree weather!), despite loosing nearly every game. My goal here is not to win at all costs, but to teach them the next level. They're not ready for a full zone defense, and certainly not an offsides trap, but I think they are ready to start learning to deny space on the far side of the field.

Also, I'm not sure how much this matters, but most of my girls are 8 now and we'll be U-9 in a month. I know there's a world of difference in their play over the last year, but then most of them are finishing up their first year.

Also we go 11 on the field in the fall, so we really need to start playing wide and deep or they'll be worn out by half-time.

[spartanpele]

Ray..typically when teams play a flat back it implies an offside trap setup.

The whole purpose of running a flat system is to create the offsides line. Theres no benefit to having 3 or 4 defenders lined up straight in a line horizontally if you're not running a trap.

So I'll throw out this question... Why play flat?

You can run 3 defenders, or 4 defenders without being flat. As a matter of fact, I would think you would want to keep your shape and depth with your defenders to prevent the easy thru ball and their attackers getting behind the defense easily.

btw: When running the 4 back italian style zone, the half moon shape is the starting point, with the first person pressing, the other players dropping. If its the center back stepping in a 4 back setup, this creates the 3 flat triangle scenario. If is a wing defender stepping, the other defenders are dropping to create the "chain".

As for the original problem... I would simply use 3 or 4 defenders marking those players on the posts and centerline. If the other teams are having their defenders brought up on the attack, you have to match the number with your mids and strikers defending as well.

[mzbrand]

So I'll throw out this question... Why play flat?



I had three things in mind: (1) "flat" start instead of the diamond that we're currently using, (2) teaching a simple zone so that one of the defenders covers the far post, and (3) introducing the concept of the flat back so that we can eventually progress to the more advanced tactics.

My understanding of the flat back 4 is that it's only flat when lining up or executing an offsides trap. During normal play I am looking for a curved shape. I didn't play in this formation, so there's a good chance that I need some help rounding out my understanding.



As for the original problem... I would simply use 3 or 4 defenders marking those players on the posts and centerline.



This is what I'm looking for, but how best to teach it? The first instinct of my players is to cover the ball. They've learned that the second defender should cover the first defender instead of bunching on the ball. I've been talking about 3rd defenders for a couple of seasons, but I still get either two first defenders or two second defenders while the far post is wide open.

[spartanpele]

Ah...now I understand.

The simplest solution to your problem, play 4v4 in the final 3rd of the field (offense vs defense).

Use the a full sized fields PK area (44x18), and two small goals created with cones.

Teach the kids that the closest player goes to the ball, the other players drop and support, while watching their player. If the ball pops out onto the wing, one player pressures the ball, the other players mark a player in the penalty area.

If the 1st person gets beat (dribbled by), the next closest defender pressures the ball, and the other players likewise shift over closer, leaving the furthest offensive player free.

When you first start practicing it, have the offense simply stand in the spread out positions and teach your defenders to shift accordingly. Make sure to move around your players to offense and defense, and from inside to outside to learn the idea.

It may take you a while...but it is the building blocks to zonal....

[Ray Luca]

"Ray..typically when teams play a flat back it implies an offside trap setup."

Does it? Sorry a flat back defense is not an offside trap.

It does help compress the field defensively but that is not an offisde trap.

[spartanpele]

Ray, compression of the field can be done without being flat. You can press up to compress the field, and still have shape in the back defense.

Theres no benefit to being flat beyond creating the offside line.

If you think there are benefits to being flat beyond creating the offsides line horizontally across the field... then list them.

(...sound of crickets...)

[Ray Luca]

Ray, compression of the field can be done without being flat. You can press up to compress the field, and still have shape in the back defense.

Theres no benefit to being flat beyond creating the offside line.

If you think there are benefits to being flat beyond creating the offsides line horizontally across the field... then list them.

(...sound of crickets...)

The benefits of a zone which are you don't have to chase players all over the field. Just to the next player in the zone.

Then after you win the ball you don't have to move 40 yards to get back to your position like you might have to in man.

So you can start your possession right away.

Now a question for you. How do you go about trapping a player offside. Exactly? Since you think it is all about playing a flat back how do you get that person offside just using a flat back.

[spartanpele]

I didn't ask what the benefits were of a zone. I asked what the benefits were of playing flat if you weren't going to trap. We already established that compression can be done without being flat.

But to answer your question: The way to trap a player offside is to establish the offside line by playing flat in the back, and moving up as a unit before the time the ball is played. The attacking player is then behind the last player (which happens to be all the back defenders because they are lined up flat horizontally), at the time the ball is played, and voila...they're offsides.

The whole idea of running flat back-3, flat back-4, running flat while defending set pieces is to establish the offsides line for offsides. The compression element is a part of the scheme when pushing up, which creates smaller spaces for the attacking team to work with, and in the case of defending set pieces it allows the GK more space while also trapping their attackers. But the main focal point of running flat s/b to create the offsides.

Thus ends my discussion on the flat back system... If anyone else wants to continue the discussion...by all means...please feel free. : - )