Unified Support?

[kaiser kraut]

As much as we hate DCU and the F*re, I think we could learn from them, so if you hate my idea just because it relates to either of these teams, then fine, but just give it a think and see if you conclude that a different approach might be better.

In DCU, you have several large groups, predominanly Screaming Eagles and Barra Brava (pardon any spelling errors in this post). My understanding is that SE are located along one of the touchlines and BB are located behind one of the goals, is this right? So even though they are two seperate groups, they have both found ways to be successful in supporting their club. They aren't competing for "turf" and they can have different approaches to support without really stepping on each others toes. So if we simply look at DCU, maybe it would be best if Legion and V-Army are in two completely seperate locations?

Now the folks in 107 are also some kind of group, but as far as I can tell, it seems a lot more informal. I've never really delved into finding out about that, so perhaps somebody else can explain that dynamic.

Anyway, so look at the F*re, they have Section 8, which is like a big umbrella company. Within the great Section 8 "group" are all of the seperate supporters clubs/groups. You have things like The Barn Burners, Fire Ultras, the Mike Ditka Street Crew, Whiskey Bros 05, and Ultras-Redside, amongst others. Yeah they're all little fragment groups but together they combine into the large Section 8. Then they have Section 8 that represents their interests to the FO, acts as their liason to the FO, organizes bus trips, etc etc.

I guess I'm just wondering if one of these two approaches could help unify support by either a) unifying us in our support by finding seperate turf for different groups, or b) starting an umbrella group and then just having different smaller groups that can be concerned with their own things.

Just an idea, as our current approach (whatever that is) just doesn't seem to be working. I know we can point fingers at the field and say that this is why numbers are low and voices quiet, but let's try and do better then that. If the North End was a fun place to be, no matter the scoreline, then I don't think we would have to places so much emphasis on excusing ourselves with the poor team play.

So, anyway, vote and discuss.

[Kryptonite]

In DCU, you have several large groups, predominanly Screaming Eagles and Barra Brava (pardon any spelling errors in this post). My understanding is that SE are located along one of the touchlines and BB are located behind one of the goals, is this right? So even though they are two seperate groups, they have both found ways to be successful in supporting their club.


Not quite. SE and BB sit in neighboring sections. On TV, SE is on the left and BB is just to the right. La Norte sits behind the north (left) goal.




Now the folks in 107 are also some kind of group, but as far as I can tell, it seems a lot more informal. I've never really delved into finding out about that, so perhaps somebody else can explain that dynamic.


Here's my thoughts on 107. A few years ago, yes they were formal. They even had a banner, formal tailgates, the works. Now they seem to be a lot more informal. For the most part, section 107 seems to be where people go when they "retire" from 137.




Here's how I see 137. Nick does have good ideas, however I see him rising to the top too fast. In any sports leagues, rookies have to carry the equipment, run extra laps, do the hard work. Players put in the hard time and work their way to the top.

And yes, Zak and others are right. Generally, people from all sections, not just 137, look at the product on the field and think "why should we have to support this product?" If we were challenging for the #1 position in the league, i'm sure we'd be a lot more excited for Crew games, we'd be louder, in larger number, etc.


I think the first point of business should be to set up a meeting with Crew Groove and the FO and try to sort out our differences.

If the Legion wants to stay in 137, that's fine. If they want to move, that's fine too. But, the #1 "rule" always has been.. if you don't like a chant, that's fine. Don't start one over it though, wait until it's finished.

[Placid Casual]

I think the first point of business should be to set up a meeting with Crew Groove and the FO and try to sort out our differences.
.

That should be one of the shortest meetings ever:

Front Office So whats the problem

137 Tell Crew Groove to buck off back to where they came from.

Front Office Ok as long as you dont drop any more pink slips. More cake?

137 Yeah we rule.
[B]

[kaiser kraut]

I know everybody loves to bang on drums, but I wonder if there would be some way to modify Crew Groove so that they were a benefit and not a detriment? It looks like they're a pretty large group of drummers, especially for having such an empty stadium (more bouncing of sound). I wonder if they could cut it down to maybe a dude with a quad, one with a snare, and one with a bass?

As much as people are currently pissed at them, it just seems to me that there would be potential there to turn it around and get some good out of them.

[Chelsey]

The only way I see Crew Groove as being beneficial to the Northend atmosphere, without pissing everyone off; is if they stood with the supporter groups, not behind, and banged along with the supporter chants.


Trying to get them to bang along with the chants, where they are currently located won't work, either, as they are behind us, and they wouldn't be insync with the rhythm.

[Kryptonite]

I know everybody loves to bang on drums, but I wonder if there would be some way to modify Crew Groove so that they were a benefit and not a detriment? It looks like they're a pretty large group of drummers, especially for having such an empty stadium (more bouncing of sound). I wonder if they could cut it down to maybe a dude with a quad, one with a snare, and one with a bass?

As much as people are currently pissed at them, it just seems to me that there would be potential there to turn it around and get some good out of them.


There's definetely potential to turn it into something good.

As for what assortment of drums to use, I think the sound of snares in a supporter's section doesn't sound right. I'd say maybe 2 bass drums and a quad. And they need to be in 137, not at the top of 138 if this is going to work.

Speaking of bass drums, any chance of getting that Crew logo drum back??

[kaiser kraut]

Then bring that up with McCullers or Ryan Smith or whoever. I would ask him/them to scale back CG so that the group isn't overpowering and have them work along with the supporters, not in competition with them. Hell, get them to set up in the first couple rows of 137 or behind the goal or something.

And if they scale it back to only a couple of drummers, then you can even have them interspersed with the rest of the group.

[kaiser kraut]

You're probably right about the snare sounding funny with the group. What about some of those awesome African or Japanese drums? Or we could get some Rastas to bang on the steel drums (Just kidding folks).

[THOMA GOL]

Or we could get some Rastas to bang on the steel drums (Just kidding folks).

LOL warning from the ref!! Others would have shown yellow.

[NutHouse4life01]

Speaking of bass drums, any chance of getting that Crew logo drum back??

Getting it back is probably out of the question. Let's just say that it belonged to a friend of a friend who is no longer dating said friend.

That being said, I am friends with this friend of a friend, so I will see what I can do... ;)

[BBBulldog]

My understanding is that SE are located along one of the touchlines and BB are located behind one of the goals, is this right?

Barra controls ticket sales for 135-137, Eagles control 132-134, La Norte are on other side, 118 I think?

[gocaps]

Not quite. SE and BB sit in neighboring sections. On TV, SE is on the left and BB is just to the right. La Norte sits behind the north (left) goal.
Correct. The core SE section is 134, and the core BB section is 135 - right next to each other. That's by design. By "core" I mean the sections where the standing nuts are. SE sells 133 and 132 as "Nest Lite", an opportunity for families, short people, people uninterested in 90-min. chanting, etc., to soak up the atmosphere and join in, but not have to stand the entire time. A lot of people sit in those sections. But 134 is the one most in demand, and a good chunk of it is sold in season tickets.

[Legion04]

I want there to be unified support. Right now, we're just frustrated with the conduct of V-Army, plain and simple. I'm not trying to diss anyone in particular. There is alot of enthusiasm in V-Army, but we just don't identify with V-Army at this particular time.

In fact, we had no problems whatsoever during the first few home games of the season standing with V-Army. Numbers weren't at there highest, we were standing behind V-Army in upper 137, until, just before kick-off opening day, Mike said, "come on down." We did, that night was amazing. The enthusiasm was at its highest in 137 since maybe the Dallas game in the rain last year. We worked together, leaders from both groups started chants. We meshed, plain and simple. We had met a few weeks earlier at the Rose and Thistle pub and discussed all this. People joined us because there was something special. We had a wide array of chants, it was clean, and focused.

That's what we have to go on. We're not budging from the northend. If we did, it would symbolize several things. First that we're too weak to stay in 137 and that we're getting pushed out. We won't do that. It would also mean that we've given up on a coordinated effort. Again, we won't have any of that.

Kaiser Kraut's posts were intriguing, because they do raise key questions and points. We can look around MLS to get ideas, as well as overseas. The last thing we want is to have a huge falling out between us, where talks break down and s**** like that. I honestly feel we're nowhere near that.

Your thoughts....

[kaiser kraut]

Um, I would say you're dangerously near that point, hence why all of these discussions keep popping up. Both sides have to be willing to compromise, and frankly, I don't see Legion (or you since I don't see any other Legion folks posting here) as taking anything close to a "give & take" position on virtually anything.

Oh, and you say "I'm not trying to diss anyone in particular" so instead you just go ahead and diss the whole group? Man, come on, you're not playing this very well, as you're probably pissing off a lot of people. You could simply say "There are some things that happen in V-Army that I'm not particularly supportive of, but I hope we can overcome these differences to improve our support of the club." It's just a better approach. Just my advice, so take it if you want, or not, whatever.

[Flyer Fan]

I generally stay out of these discussions - unless I'm taking full advantage of the endless opportunities to crack on people - because I don't really care one way or the other. In the past, I considered myself V-Army National Guard - I'm more than happy to join with my fellow Crew fans, normally V-Army, making the road trips but I'd much rather watch the home games from section 107. I don't really care to be a cheerleader all game, I have disposable income, and the view is better from 107. Plus, through five years of sitting in that section, I've developed a number of friendships.

So, here's a view from an outsider: From reading all these threads, I honestly can't envision a full section 137 as everyone involved desires. Things are too splintered, there seems to be little to no cooperation amongst the various groups, and as Zak has recently written far too many people are concerned with having a named group and getting pats on the back for organizing their circle of supporters. And, honestly, if I stood in section 137 there is no way I could take my lead from a bunch of high school kids.

I wish everyone involved with this windmill tilting the best of luck, but I honestly think we're doomed to see a 90% empty North End for a while.

[kaiser kraut]

Windmill tilting? What's that? Does that involve copious amounts of Dutch reefer and shrooms? Man, 137 is gonna rock with this stuff!

[Superdrew69]

I want there to be unified support. Right now, we're just frustrated with the conduct of V-Army, plain and simple. I'm not trying to diss anyone in particular. There is alot of enthusiasm in V-Army, but we just don't identify with V-Army at this particular time.


I have a brilliant idea. If you don't want to be identified with us then why don't you change sections? Maybe you should move back to 138 if you don't wanna be associated with a bunch of drunken idiots :rolleyes:
I asked you to not bad mouth V-Army once already, but I guess I didn't get my point across clearly enough. I take everything you said personally because I know that I have started a fair share of "inappropriate" chants. If you have a problem with any of my chants, talk to me instead of bashing the whole group some more on a public forum.

[THOMA GOL]

And, honestly, if I stood in section 137 there is no way I could take my lead from a bunch of high school kids.


HMMMMM, so could age difference play a part in this?? Adult supporters (yes one should be a LEGIT adult once past the age of 25) generally have a certain maturity level when it comes to being a supporter. But then again when some adults are more drunk and unaware of their self-discipline, that makes for even more dilemmas in the supporter section.

[Legion04]

I have a brilliant idea. If you don't want to be identified with us then why don't you change sections? Maybe you should move back to 138 if you don't wanna be associated with a bunch of drunken idiots :rolleyes:
I asked you to not bad mouth V-Army once already, but I guess I didn't get my point across clearly enough. I take everything you said personally because I know that I have started a fair share of "inappropriate" chants. If you have a problem with any of my chants, talk to me instead of bashing the whole group some more on a public forum.

We're not moving, as I said earlier. If we move it means that...1 We're too weak to stand up for ourselves and our beliefs and 2 It would symbolize that we've given up on the idea of unified support. I'll let you know when we're heading in that direction....we're not even close to even considering that as a possibility yet.

I'm not "bad mouthing V-Army" only to the extent that I don't agree with the way things are going right now. I have every right to say what I feel and what I'm thinking. I see that you're offended by my statements. Don't be, Legion 04 has been bashed by fans all over the league, including V-Army people and fellow Crew fans. Just read any thread, you'll see that it turns from possible ideas to creating a louder...more effective northend to a bashing on how Legion is a bunch of worthless kids, we don't need them, etc. I don't get riled up by bashing any more, I've basically learned that some people will post s*** like that, and I just ignore it, if it has no point.

My post was not meant to get you pissed, it was to get you thinking about how part of the "North End Umbrella Group" if you will, is frustrated with the other club. I hope it does have you thinking.

Our main frustration, like I said is that certain people in V-Army constantly start up derrogitory chants and anti-Andrulis chants. Now I want Andrulis out as well, believe me, I want him gone, but starting up "Sack Andrulis" chants every 5 minutes doesn't appeal to me. Along with this, from our perspective, there is no vision for V-Army or the northend in general. All of us want numbers to improve, etc. Yet we're lacking a focus, that's my main frustration.

I sent you a PM, saying that if you want to hold a joint meeting, we'd be happy to do so. Give us the time, location, etc. and we'll be there. We are ALWAYS willing to talk.

[Kryptonite]

Our main frustration, like I said is that certain people in V-Army constantly start up derrogitory chants and anti-Andrulis chants. Now I want Andrulis out as well, believe me, I want him gone, but starting up "Sack Andrulis" chants every 5 minutes doesn't appeal to me. Along with this, from our perspective, there is no vision for V-Army or the northend in general. All of us want numbers to improve, etc. Yet we're lacking a focus, that's my main frustration.

The #1 rule in 137 always has been "If you don't agree with a chant, shut your mouth." If you have two or three chants going, people don't know what to participate in, so they won't. It also seems more like general "white noise" and is entirely unorganized.

I hear chants every game that I don't like. So what do I do? Shut my mouth. Do I attempt to start something over that? No.



With that said, I think maybe it's time to sack the "Sack Andrulis" chat. McCullers gets the message, but since he alone can't sack Greg, I think we're wasting our breath by telling him to do something that wants to do, but he alone can't do.