What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer?

[vistamn]

As I watch the San Pablo play River Plate, I am finding that I am almost expecting rough and questionable play from River... I know thats not fair but after watching the replays of the Boca-Chivas game with the behavior of some of the Boca players, the Boca coach and the Boca fans, I find myself wondering if Argentina soccer has turned down a path similar to the one they took in their political history, one of corruption and failure. In any event, I am hoping that River will show the world that Argentina has some class soccer programs remaining. No offense meant towards anyone, unless you are one of those who try to say that Boca did nothing wrong that fateful day...

[vipnerd]

As I watch the San Pablo play River Plate, I am finding that I am almost expecting rough and questionable play from River... I know thats not fair but after watching the replays of the Boca-Chivas game with the behavior of some of the Boca players, the Boca coach and the Boca fans, I find myself wondering if Argentina soccer has turned down a path similar to the one they took in their political history, one of corruption and failure. In any event, I am hoping that River will show the world that Argentina has some class soccer programs remaining. No offense meant towards anyone, unless you are one of those who try to say that Boca did nothing wrong that fateful day...


The effect has been that you will see Boca playing the next two CONMEBOL tournies ... the Recopa ,in mid-August, and the Sudamericana in the second semester.


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[Solid444]

The effect of seeing the pride of all Argentinian teams being shutout and beaten by better Mexican and Brazilian teams. Apart from the horrible behavior that these animals shown, the score is what stands out the most. 4-0 and shutout in the Bombonera. Argentinian teams are not the best in the Americas anymore

[vipnerd]

The effect of seeing the pride of all Argentinian teams being shutout and beaten by better Mexican and Brazilian teams. ... the score is what stands out the most. 4-0 and shutout in the Bombonera. Argentinian teams are not the best in the Americas anymore

Also true ... good there is always time for revenge in football. Enjoy it with a smile ... :cool:





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[efernandez9]

nada


Nothing!

[Wile Coyote]

You make it seem like argentina is the most violent you see one game see one crazyness and you say every one is like that.. you see river fans run wild you say all of conmebol sout america argentina are wild...

yet while all the attention is on Boca for what happened you forget about inter fans and juve fans that made liverpool fans run in the champions league this season.... I wont even mention what happens every week in Eastern Europe at the stadiums.... currupt CONMEBOL is far from currupt in the last 15 years CONMEBOL has become first class it has the same problems UEFA has as far as fan violence.. come on man give it a rest.....

[efernandez9]

well, you may have seen that next weekend's games are postponed for security reasons, by AFA! Local liga will not have futbol next saturday/sunday...


question: where will Boca plays copa suramericana if CONmebol sanctions la ombonera for 6 months?

(6 months is my opinion, more than that will be appealed........el chino should get the same punishment chilavert got for spitting on roberto carlos face coule of yrs ago!) IMHO

[chaski]

question: where will Boca plays copa suramericana if CONmebol sanctions la ombonera for 6 months? Not in the Monumental. :p

[vipnerd]

well, you may have seen that next weekend's games are postponed for security reasons, by AFA! Local liga will not have futbol next saturday/sunday...





2 games Saturday ... all the rest on Sunday ... Velez and Racing games are at the same time, 5:10 BS As.

And La Bombonera has been suspended for two games in Argentina for the local tourny. The game against Quilmes will be played at San Lorenzo's, Sunday at 3 pm Bs As.

[vistamn]

You make it seem like argentina is the most violent you see one game see one crazyness and you say every one is like that.. you see river fans run wild you say all of conmebol sout america argentina are wild...

yet while all the attention is on Boca for what happened you forget about inter fans and juve fans that made liverpool fans run in the champions league this season.... I wont even mention what happens every week in Eastern Europe at the stadiums.... currupt CONMEBOL is far from currupt in the last 15 years CONMEBOL has become first class it has the same problems UEFA has as far as fan violence.. come on man give it a rest.....

I haven't forgotten about inter or juve or UEFA violence and I haven't mentioned CONMEBOL or the word corrupt anywhere. As far as I can tell, this particular board is about Copa Libertadores & Copa Sudamericana so I am quite on topic. Perhaps you mean to direct this statement at someone else. Give it a rest? Why, it was a problem and a current one. I was merely trying to start a discussion to see if anyone might see any connections between Argentinas problems with Government, Politics and Monetary issues and the state of Argentine football. Whether you like it or not, Argentina has some BIG problems in the former areas. I am actually hopeful that the football programs can stay above or rise above the national problems and that is a valid discussion arena in my opinion. It sounds like you may have a chip on your shoulder about this to me.

[G D L]

currupt CONMEBOL is far from currupt in the last 15 years CONMEBOL has become first class it has the same problems UEFA has as far as fan violence.. come on man give it a rest..... i thought they were corrupt pigs for letting us "mejicanos" play with you:rolleyes:

[vipnerd]

I haven't forgotten about inter or juve or UEFA violence and I haven't mentioned CONMEBOL or the word corrupt anywhere. As far as I can tell, this particular board is about Copa Libertadores & Copa Sudamericana so I am quite on topic. Perhaps you mean to direct this statement at someone else. Give it a rest? Why, it was a problem and a current one. I was merely trying to start a discussion to see if anyone might see any connections between Argentinas problems with Government, Politics and Monetary issues and the state of Argentine football. Whether you like it or not, Argentina has some BIG problems in the former areas. I am actually hopeful that the football programs can stay above or rise above the national problems and that is a valid discussion arena in my opinion. It sounds like you may have a chip on your shoulder about this to me.

This might answer a couple of your thoughts ...

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5323614&postcount=45

Forget about the last sentence. :cool:


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[Hartfield]

As I watch the San Pablo play River Plate, I am finding that I am almost expecting rough and questionable play from River... I know thats not fair but after watching the replays of the Boca-Chivas game with the behavior of some of the Boca players, the Boca coach and the Boca fans, I find myself wondering if Argentina soccer has turned down a path similar to the one they took in their political history, one of corruption and failure. In any event, I am hoping that River will show the world that Argentina has some class soccer programs remaining. No offense meant towards anyone, unless you are one of those who try to say that Boca did nothing wrong that fateful day...


Since I remember Argentinian futbol has always been like that. Their fans travel everywhere thanks to the clubs top people. In a game against Colo Colo in Chile there was brwls between fans, also when people from U de chile went to Argentina same thing...Corinthians against Rosario Centra;, Santos vs. boca, America de MExico vs. Boca, America de Cali vs. Racing, boca vs Once Caldas, San Lorenzo vs. Once Caldas Cerro Portenio vs. boca. el nacional vs. Independiente...The thing is Conmebol favors the top confederations specially Argentina when it comes to punishments.

[vistamn]

This might answer a couple of your thoughts ...

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5323614&postcount=45

Forget about the last sentence. :cool:


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I don't exactly understand the governments thinking on this strategy. If I understand correctly, the protest is regarding the anniversary of the assasinations of two well known militants? Is the current government an adversary of these murdered militants?
I would think that a game of this size would do quite well to "minimize" the poignancy of such a protest and therefore, allowing the game to occur simultaneously with the protest would be a preferable situation. I do understand that there has been much corruption amongst the Police forces as they have been known to be the perpetrators of kidnappings that they then investigate, all motivated by ransom profiteering... I may be wrong, but it almost looked as if the police officer who "chased" the fan in the yellow shirt who had assualted Chivas's Bautista appeared to almost help push the fan back over the security fence rather than to haul him down and arrest him. Perhaps the military should guard the protest and the police the football game, or vice versa... Or is the military and the government at odds?
I promise to do more investigation into the current social issues so I can have fewer questions on the state of Argentinas social unrest.

[vipnerd]

I don't exactly understand the governments thinking on this strategy. If I understand correctly, the protest is regarding the anniversary of the assasinations of two well known militants? Is the current government an adversary of these murdered militants?
I would think that a game of this size would do quite well to "minimize" the poignancy of such a protest and therefore, allowing the game to occur simultaneously with the protest would be a preferable situation. I do understand that there has been much corruption amongst the Police forces as they have been known to be the perpetrators of kidnappings that they then investigate, all motivated by ransom profiteering... I may be wrong, but it almost looked as if the police officer who "chased" the fan in the yellow shirt who had assualted Chivas's Bautista appeared to almost help push the fan back over the security fence rather than to haul him down and arrest him. Perhaps the military should guard the protest and the police the football game, or vice versa... Or is the military and the government at odds?
I promise to do more investigation into the current social issues so I can have fewer questions on the state of Argentinas social unrest.

Protests are against the government. It would be in the best interest of the government that bigger organized groups:
a) Don't join at a point
b) Don't confront.

The government has been, on the most part, pasive with this demonstrations ... it is the position of the City of Buenos Aires. But in any protest, specially in one that involves the remembering of two "victims", violence could end up unfolding.

In any event ... I think this is as much info on the sociological and political status of Argentina as this thread really needs.

Vip


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[fandechivas]

i know this game was a long time ago ( or so it seems) but i pity the Argentinans (?) They lost because of their bad sportsmanship and because of thir fans. Also what kind of coach spits in a rivals face? It's rude and gives his team, country, and mainly himself a bad rap. However, i can't say i feel sorry for Boca considering i'm a Chivas fan. To me they got a slap on the wrist. I would have liked to see further punishment but again that's just me being vengeful. I hope one day both teams can put this behind them and play an awesome match. Talk about wishful thinking huh?

[Hartfield]

i know this game was a long time ago ( or so it seems) but i pity the Argentinans (?) They lost because of their bad sportsmanship and because of thir fans. Also what kind of coach spits in a rivals face? It's rude and gives his team, country, and mainly himself a bad rap. However, i can't say i feel sorry for Boca considering i'm a Chivas fan. To me they got a slap on the wrist. I would have liked to see further punishment but again that's just me being vengeful. I hope one day both teams can put this behind them and play an awesome match. Talk about wishful thinking huh?

The game has been over for a couple of weeks..let it go...

[Delta Blues]

The game has been over for a couple of weeks..let it go...

Well, now the fans at River decide to join in. What a dispicable display against Sao Paulo. Why is it that such normally civilized people in a great country as Argentina become sub-human refuse at futbol matches? FIFA needs to not just address this crap, but crush it out of existence! Total season bans for entities such as the Boca and River organizations. These teams front offices know, and condone this crap by not completely disowning and banning all these psycho supporters groups from ever attending a match again. An entire season ban in all competitions for these organizations would take care of the problem in short order. I would apply the same in Italy, Spain, Costa Rica and anywhere else this complete **************** is simply ignored by clubs and their officials.

[Hartfield]

Well, now the animals at River decide to join in. What a dispicable display by the Argentinian cretins against Sao Paulo. Why is it that such normally civilized people in a great country as Argentina become sub-human refuse at futbol matches? FIFA needs to not just address this crap, but crush it out of existence! Total season bans for entities such as the Boca and River organizations. These teams front offices know, and condone this crap by not completely disowning and banning all these psycho supporters groups from ever attending a match again. An entire season ban in all competitions for these organizations would take care of the problem in short order. I would apply the same in Italy, Spain, Costa Rica and anywhere else this complete **************** is simply ignored by clubs and their officials.

It was retaliation for what happended in San Pablo.

[Delta Blues]

It was retaliation for what happended in San Pablo.

Boy, that sure justifies it. :rolleyes: Maybe someday the likes of these *fans* will join the human race?