St. Louis Expansion Talks!

[Sachsen]

I hope St Louis gets a MLS team. Seems there is no where for them to play but where the Rams play, but thats a debate best held by those that know more about the situation on the ground.

I'll just add that if Rob Stoner is your source, take it for what its worth. In Salt Lake, fans were very excited when Stoner said that Kasey Keller was coming to RSL during a WCQ last fall. :(

...and according to Keller's recent interview with Grant Wahl, he was EXTREMELY close to coming to RSL - wife was practically on the plane to start looking for a place to live in Utah.

So just because it gets mentioned on the air, does that mean it's going to happen? No. Does that mean there might be something more going on behind-the-scenes than we know about? Yes.

No news is good news.

[Sachsen]

Old Busch is being razed to make room for New Busch/parking lot. And there is no way in hell the Cardinals are going to allow their new stadium to be defiled by having soccer played there all summer. IIRC, the team paid for the stadium, so the gov't can't make them let MLS use it, either.

As both a soccer fan and a Cardinals fan, I would NOT want to see MLS in Busch stadium. When I go to a soccer game, I want to see soccer stuff around me and feel like I'm in a soccer stadium, not as a not-necessarily-welcome guest in someone else's place. We get that at Arrowhead with the Wizards already, what with all the Chiefs stuff everywhere. :(

No, I really don't know where an MLS team in St. Louis would play. Currently, I don't think any of the options are good ones.

[soccertom]

What about Jonathan Spector? Spector is arguably the second best American prospect after Freddie Adu, and he's from St. Louis.

Jonathan Spector? Great player but not a St. Louisian. I repeat he is NOT a St. Louisian. Perhaps you are confusing Spector with Frankie Simek the former Arsenal youth player who played High School soccer @ St. Louis University High in St. Louis and lived across the Mississippi River in an east St. Louis area suburb.

[stjarboe]

I hope St Louis gets a MLS team. Seems there is no where for them to play but where the Rams play, but thats a debate best held by those that know more about the situation on the ground.

How many fans must a stadium hold to be a reasonable venue for MLS? Crew Stadium holds 22,500. HDC holds 27,000. Frisco will hold around 22,000.

Fulham's Craven Cottage holds around 22,500. Portsmouth's stadium holds less than 20,000.

So it seems that somewhere between 20K and 30K is the going capacity for serviceable stadia. (Please don't make the mistake of suggesting that I am comparing MLS to Premiership minnows. They just seemed like good comparables for size purposes only.)

Where in the Lou could we do 25,000 spectators on a decent field? Not Soccer Park. Not Hermann Stadium at SLU. Not the Ed Jones Dome, and not new or old Busch.

I think that's what keeps the Lou out of the running, unless and until someone with deep pockets and serious local political connections steps forward with a plan whereby St. Louis County foots much of the bill to build a SSS that seats 25K. And unfortunately, I don't see that happening, either.

[SoccerPrime]

Why couldn't the potential St Louis MLS team play in the Rams' stadium for a few years. Seems to be working in Salt Lake.
The potential owner/investor can just say something to Garber like "We will work towards a SSS". That should make MLS happy (at least in the beginning).

Who owns the NFL St Louis Rams and their stadium?

[Sachsen]

Why couldn't the potential St Louis MLS team play in the Rams' stadium for a few years. Seems to be working in Salt Lake.
The potential owner/investor can just say something to Garber like "We will work towards a SSS". That should make MLS happy (at least in the beginning).

Who owns the NFL St Louis Rams and their stadium?

I don't know the details of RSL's deal, but I have to imagine that the cost of paying rent to play in the Edward Jones Dome would far outstrip whatever they're paying to play in Rice-Eccles. Not to mention it would mean another MLS team playing on turf (yuck) at least temporarily.

I don't think "we will work towards a SSS" is going to cut it. Doesn't sound definitive enough. It needs to be more of an iron-clad guarantee (however you would word that) that there will be a SSS in place in 2-3 years. Otherwise, when you run into the inevitable backlash/struggle from the community over funding a stadium (which, by the way, St. Louis just went through over the new Busch stadium, and that was for the Cardinals) it would be way too easy for the dome to become another Giants Stadium-type albatross around the neck. Not good.

[SoccerPrime]

Oh I agree, a MLS team anywhere needs a SSS, not a NFL style stadium that play "second fiddle" on.
My point was that a potential St Louis MLS investor could tell MLS "I'll work on it ASAP" and then sign a 2-3 year deal with the Edward Jones Dome.
My point in bringing RSL into this is that they essentially did that. I think they told MLS they would have something in stone by Feb 2005...but then got an extension til...end of summer 2005? But in the meantime they have a 2 year lease with Rice Eccles Stadium until the end of 2006 with at least one more year if they want it.
Someone in Missouri could do that too.

[swedcrip34]

the Rams stadium is just now getting FieldTurf IIRC, that might be part of why St Louis is now on the radar. There still may be concerns that it's a dome and it's too narrow? Anyways the Rams might not want to share anyways - soccer lines over their field, etc. I think we need to hear from a Rams fan on this.

[SoccerPrime]

Just fo kicks, info on the Edward Jones Dome.

http://www.edwardjonesdome.org
http://www.fieldturf.com/index.cfm?pageView=readSpecialFeature&featureID=128

[denver_mugwamp]

the Rams stadium is just now getting FieldTurf IIRC, that might be part of why St Louis is now on the radar. There still may be concerns that it's a dome and it's too narrow? Anyways the Rams might not want to share anyways - soccer lines over their field, etc. I think we need to hear from a Rams fan on this.

I seriously doubt if the league would be wasting its time if there wasn't somebody with money in St Louis acting interested. We don't know if they're just kicking the tires and taking a test drive or if they're ready to make a deal but I guarantee you that there's someone on the other end of Garber's telephone line.

And as for talking about stadiums, Salt Lake City proves that there's only one big factor in running a successful MLS team--having a good local owner-operator who knows his local fanbase and how to approach it. Hopefully St Louis has such a person.

[Mack_Dundee]

Jonathan Spector? Great player but not a St. Louisian. I repeat he is NOT a St. Louisian. Perhaps you are confusing Spector with Frankie Simek the former Arsenal youth player who played High School soccer @ St. Louis University High in St. Louis and lived across the Mississippi River in an east St. Louis area suburb.

Well, I guess that is why Spector never gets mentioned as a St. Louisian. :D Thanks for repeating that Spector is "NOT" a St. Louisian, by the way, because one mention was not enough. I repeat that one mention was NOT enough.

Anywho, yes it's got to be Frankie Simek to whom I was thinking. There was a Fox Sports World special about a year ago where Nick Webster spoke to American players playing in England and their was a young defender from St. Louis that was interviewed. It had to be Simek, but I had thought it was Spector.

Soccertom, you say that Simek is no longer with Arsenal's youth program, what every happened to him? I repeat...

[Mack_Dundee]

I think a stadium similar to the ones being built in Dallas and Chicago would be the best sell in St. Louis. By that I mean SSS that can be configured to host outdoor concerts, etc. A stadium would be much more attractive if MLS were not the sole tennant, which should give a greater return on the investment. Particularly when you look at all of the empty seats and fledgling clubs around the league, the threat of building a stadium for a league that could potentially fold will be a tough sell to any investors.

As for a taxpayer paid stadium, I can't imagine that happening. A vote would be very tough to pass, considering that Cardinals were even rebuffed by most of the public in their stadium request deal. But if the league and SSS could prove to be viable, thus the need for multiple uses, civic-minded businesses might be willing to bite, as they did when the Blues needed a new arena or the Cardinals with their new Busch stadium.

I wonder if a team would be of interest to one of the larger suburbs, such as St. Charles. Personally, I'd love to see it in the city around Mid Town, Soulard or the West End, some of the trendier spots. It would create an excellent before and after the game experience, which would only make people more inclined to attend. Particularly with all of the big money condos and luxury homes that are going up in those areas, the money is their for more growth and a SSS could be the centerpiece.

A SSS could host outdoor concerts and plays, if it's in Mid Town it could be used by Saint Louis University for various functions, and after the MLS season perhaps some of the higher-profile high school football teams could play there on occassion. If built for around $25-30 million, and with big tax breaks, it could potentially work.

[stjarboe]

I wonder if a team would be of interest to one of the larger suburbs, such as St. Charles. Personally, I'd love to see it in the city around Mid Town, Soulard or the West End, some of the trendier spots. It would create an excellent before and after the game experience, which would only make people more inclined to attend. Particularly with all of the big money condos and luxury homes that are going up in those areas, the money is their for more growth and a SSS could be the centerpiece.

It's interesting, though, that the suburbs appear to be the best best for SSS (Frisco, the Fire's potential stadium, the Metrostars' potential stadium). I know that there's talk of a SSS in Olathe or Lenexa, Kansas, for the Wizards if they stay in KC.

I think the big suburbs are a good bet because (1) soccer would be the only game IN town (as opposed to the Cards/Rams/Blues (maybe) in the city); (2) there is a dearth of multi-use venues in such places (except in St. Charles, where the Family Arena is located); and (3) whether we like it or not, a large portion of the fan base is in the 'burbs, and families are more likely to see an evening game nearer to home than they are if they have to make a 2 hour roundtrip drive.

*Edited to make one of my sentences read as if I speak English.

[McGinty]

Most SSS come down to a city willing to put up some cash for the club so who knows how that would work. It depends if the city of St. Louis would be willing to pony up some cash. If there is significant interest in the suburbs, it could prod the city into ponying up. Were the project to include youth fields, the prospects of a good financial deal would increase.

I agree that Mid Town or Forest Park would be nice and possibly feasible. They are central locations for everyone in the area, and you wouldn't totally be competing with the big 3 teams as they are all downtown. Of course, the Hill would be the ultimate fantasy location with the tradition and the food.

St. Louisans have always been big on tradition. If MLS can tap into that, I'd imagine their being mostly success in St. Louis.

[doolittledog2]

It has been a long long time since I have lived in the St. Louis area. Would a location on the south side near the brewery be able to work? I remember that as a somewhat run down area. I know the Busch family doesn't seem to want to own a team but what if they put a nice little stadium with a brick facade right by the brewery? They could house the team there, plus hold Busch sponsored concerts there and add to the traffic into the brewery. And isn't that an area where a lot of the recent Bosnian population has moved to? It seems that could be a possibility of being able to work out there. Of course with out the right people involved forget about it.

[nobody]

I'd love to see something in Midtown. There's lots of development going on, but still plenty of land that needs to be put to better use with old delapidated housing coming down. There's still plenty of room left there if SLU doesn't just swallow it all up. Who's controlling that land is the bigger question.

And, I think the emerging fan base that is closer to the city should not be underestimated. There is a large Bosnian community and a rapidly growing Mexican community living in the city both of whom would be good target markets. Besides, the suburban folks need to go to the city and get out of the strip malls every once in a while. What's the point in living on the edge of a city if you have no desire to ever go there? May as well move to the countryside.

Hell, really, I'd be happy to see a team anywher in the area. And, to be honest, I'm not the most optomistc because of the lack of a good stadium and the difficulty of getting any public money for the project so soon after the new baseball stadium, and I've still not heard a thing about a private owner in town.

[TetsuoShima]

The one fact is true, if there wasn't someone the other end of the phone calls or meetings St. Louis would not even be mentioned. I see people asking where the big money investor is. Just because in other cities the potential investors don't mind everyone knowing who they are. Their are still a lot of businessmen who like their privacy. Not everyone wants to make a big festival out of it like the Chivas USA owners did. (Though I know MLS was partly behind that too, capitalizing on it.)

As to where they could play? I still think the Soccer Park could be upgraded for now for a temporary use or even the new Busch Stadium (AS a temporary use till a new SSS is built.) I see some of you mentioned soulard and around there and I was thinking the other night of that. Either right down by the Brewery area or do you remember that area just south of I64/40 across from the baseball stadium area. Where that one big building was.. umm Powell Square is or was can't remember if it was demolished yet or not or if it's being renovated for anything else. If it's demolished what about a SSS right in that area? You'd have the use of the Cardinals parking garages in the area plus have room to put in some new ones or some surface lots too. And I know the city would love to get that side of I64/40 fixed up.

Just a thought...

[Len]

...even the new Busch Stadium (AS a temporary use till a new SSS is built.)

Yesterday I was in a position where I had to listen to a few minutes of a Cardinals game. And during this 5 minutes (funny thing, timing) the announcers made the comment about how Toronto had to lay grass on the infield recently for some "English soccer teams" and they had to go to all that trouble for "only 23,000 people". But it was the disdain in his voice that got my attention.

Anyway, I'm thinking converting Busch Stadium for soccer, even temporarily, isn't going to go over well.

[TetsuoShima]

Len, no probably not, but I am just throwing out options. And believe me if the Cardinals owners were given a viable proposal that benefited them, they would do it. And for all we know the owners of the Cardinals could very well be the guys behind the St. louis MLS talks. NO NO I'm not saying I know anything i'm just speculating and pulling it out my behind. hehehe The main part of my post though was a possible location for a SSS in St. Louis that is near to downtown and would have plenty of parking with the Stadiums and surface lots already abundant downtown for the Cardinals/Rams/Blues and other events.

I still want to drive home the point just because no potential invenstors have been named in St. Louis doesn't mean their aren't any. Most businessmen like to keep their business private and only deal in the public realm when they have to. And right now in all the potential MLS expansion cities none are to a point that they have to deal with the public. I'm not saying St. louis will get a team, though I do hope so. But I am saying their is more to it than just hopefull dreams by fans. It would not of made it onto the half time show of the MLS game the other day if there wasn't more substantial developements.

[soccertom]

Soccertom, you say that Simek is no longer with Arsenal's youth program, what every happened to him? I repeat...

I only know that he was released by Arsenal @ the end of last season's Premiership campaign. Simek is expected to be signed by another English side soon.