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View Full Version : Statistical chances of qualifying with a round 5 win


HCDefence13
05 Jun 2005, 06:59 PM
This approach is different than was presented in another (similar) thread, so I thought I'd post the results. As opposed to simulating matches based on a rankings system, the idea of this method is to actually generate every possible outcome (win, loss, or tie) in every single game of each round. You then inspect all the permutations of possible tables and see what proportion have team 'X' in a certain place (1st, 2nd, etc.). In this way there is no bias based on subjective rankings...it's just all about counting the possibilities. Unfortunately, some drawbacks exist, but I'll first give the results.

RESULTS:

Assuming the U.S. defeats Panama in round 5, here are probabilities of where we would stand in the final table (after round 10)**

1st - 46.72%
Tied for 1st - 9.58%
2nd - 27.26%
Tied for 2nd - 5.42%
3rd - 6.81%
lower than 3rd - 4.21%

CONCLUSION:

Although the U.S. cannot mathematically clinch a spot with a win in the next round (i.e., it is possible to end up tied for 3rd place or lower), the chances of not advancing to WC '06 are miniscule. I haven't thoroughly inspected the actual tables where the U.S. doesn't advance with a win in round 5, but my guess is that the vast majority (maybe even all???) would require losses in each of the last 5 rounds of qualifying - and on top of that, probably even a specific series of outcomes occuring in matches we don't play in. Obviously, the likelihood of that happening is remote.

METHODOLOGY (for those interested):

The major drawback at this point in time is that the number of possible tables that still exist is ridiculously large. Consider that there are 3 possible outcomes for each game played: Home team wins, away team loses; teams tie; home team loses, away team wins. Therefore, in each round there are 3*3*3=27 possible tables that can occur. In turn, this means that the number of outcomes (tables) possible grows exponentially with each round you look to generate. To generate 2 rounds worth, there are 27^2 possible tables; 3 rounds have 27^3, etc. Assuming the U.S. wins in round 5 (leaving 9 possible tables for round 5, based on the results of the other two games), I would have to generate 9*(27^5)=129,140,163 tables!

(**)Unfortunately, my computer/software/program won't handle that much information, so the results above are not the EXACT probabilities. As we progress into later rounds, the number of tables will decrease and I can update my program and hopefully look at the exact probabilities. But for now, I am forced to sample from the possible tables and look at the outcomes. For those of you that know what I'm talking about, this would imply that there is an associated variability for the percentages given in the results sections. I have not gotten far enough to calculate those yet, but based on a number of simulations I've run, all look to have that last category being at less than 5%. The other 5 categories vary a bit more, but since it doesn't really matter if we end up 1st, 2nd, or 3rd that is of less importance to me.

One other thing to note - The "tied for X place" categories above might include situations where >2 teams are even on points. For instance, in the "Tied for 2nd" category, a table(s) might exist where the U.S. is even in the standings with Costa Rica AND Guatemala. Obviously, the tiebreakers would be applied at this point to determine who gets automatic bids and who is sent to the playoff. Other such similar situations are mathematically possible, too. So, although the "tied for X place" categories will include only 2 teams tied on points the majority of the time, you have to look at those categories with a bit of caution.

WRAP-UP:

I plan to keep running simulations to verify the results I posted above. I also update my program based on the actual outcomes after each qualifying round and re-run it. If there is any interest here, I can give updated percentages after each round is played. As I said above, at some point in the (near) future, I should be able to generate the exact percentages.

EvanJ
06 Jun 2005, 12:13 PM
I'm interested. After Matchday 5 there will be 14,348,907 possibilities. After Matchday 6 there will be 531,441 possibilities. After Matchday 7 there will be 19,683 possiblities. After Matchday 8 there will be 729 possibilities. After Matchday 9 there will be 27 possibilities. How many possibilities can your computer handle?

McKinney_Burn
06 Jun 2005, 01:08 PM
How many possibilities can your computer handle?

I have a less scientific method. I figure I need 17 chickens to secure our spot in Germany. I currently only have 9 eggs, which will turn into 9 chickens come October 12th. A win in Panama will get me up to 12 eggs (12 chickens on October 12th), a good start to getting me to my desired 17 eggs.

I figure as long as we don't have a 3 game meltdown (ie. qualifying in 2001) on matchdays 6, 7 and 8...... odds are good that we can have a chicken BBQ at my place on matchday 10.

Keep your computers...... I count chickens.

:)

DrBobC
06 Jun 2005, 01:15 PM
Hopefully someone reads my post, the last few almost scared me away. If we win the next 2 games we will be at 15 pts. Our sept. 3rd game could pretty much lock up a qualification spot. It also would be pretty sweet to pass up mexico in the standings if we win.

sidefootsitter
06 Jun 2005, 01:24 PM
Actually, to make this all academic, I don't think Guatemala will even get 12 points if it loses at Ticos on Wednesday. And Panama and T&T - the latter arguably in much better shape after hiring Leo Beenhakker - won't even make it that far.

SamsArmySam
06 Jun 2005, 02:02 PM
If we win in Panama, we will pretty much be into the World Cup. It may not be statistically blessed, but I think it will be a virtual guarantee.

Noah had a good post in the other thread explaining all the possible combinations from here on in. We qualify in in 85% of those combinations. With a win in Panama, I have to think that number goes up to 95%.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205291

It will be very interesting to see when during the Hex Bruce moves from a qualifying objective to a World Cup roster prep objective. I don't think he'll necessarily wait until mathematical certainty. Bruce is a lot more pragmatic than he gets credit for on BigSoccer. And if we pull off a win down in Panama this Wednesday, we could very well begin the World Cup roster prep cycle immediately after.

HCDefence13
06 Jun 2005, 02:59 PM
I just saw the post in the thread referred to above...it appears that the poster has a program that works identically to mine, but has a) more computing power, b) is more efficient, or c) both. In any case, it looks like our results are matching up. As the poster above said, a win in Panama looks to push our current chance of 85% up to 95%.

I'm hopeful that after Wednesday's games, I'll be able to run ALL the remaining combinations with my program as well.