GAM and everyone else: Scoring Rate per 90 minutes

[Sachsen]

I compiled the stats for everyone who could reasonably be considered an attacking player for the Nats for the past 2 1/2 years. The restrictions I set for myself were:

--Minimum of 180 minutes played
--Not retired (reason why Stewart is excluded)
--Primarily plays forward or midfielder for the Nats (reason why Convey and all the Ds were excluded)

Some of the results are a little surprising, but I'll leave it to y'all to draw your own conclusions.

-------Minutes------ -------Goals-------- Goals per
Player 2003 2004 2005 Total 2003 2004 2005 Total 90 Minutes

Johnson 0 133 426 559 0 5 3 8 1.29
Klein 360 102 0 462 3 0 0 3 0.58
Noonan 0 16 167 183 0 0 1 1 0.49
Ching 16 222 188 426 0 2 0 2 0.42
McBride 407 747 178 1332 3 3 0 6 0.41
Kirovski 364 86 0 450 2 0 0 2 0.40
Donovan 1224 1243 359 2826 7 5 0 12 0.38
Lewis 735 249 254 1238 2 1 2 5 0.36
Ralston 360 211 349 920 2 0 1 3 0.29
Dempsey 0 25 296 321 0 0 1 1 0.28
Beasley 810 1170 180 2160 1 4 0 5 0.21
Wolff 0 442 102 544 0 1 0 1 0.17
Mathis 742 251 129 1122 1 0 1 2 0.16
Twellman 174 28 9 211 0 0 0 0 0.00
Casey 0 391 9 400 0 0 0 0 0.00
Reyna 249 690 90 1029 0 0 0 0 0.00

I'll update after the next two qualifiers.

[dfb547490]

Didn't Twellman score in the friendly against Mexico in Dallas??

[Heathens '87]

Quite interesting, and thanks for posting. I think it speaks to why Ching is slowly moving ahead of McBride as the target forward, although BMB's EPL performance brought him back to life.

I think it's speaks volumes about Wolff and the issues we saw against England, but it also concerns me that Beasley is so far down. If we're to be successful, qualify and do well in the WC, his offensive abilities must come to the surface to add a much needed speed dimension to our attack.

[Sachsen]

Didn't Twellman score in the friendly against Mexico in Dallas??

Twellman had a very dangerous header that was blocked. Pope scored on the rebound.

[asdf2]

Interesting. But standard deviation is so high, that it's hard to judge soccer by statistics.

Another player ranking:

http://www.sams-army.com/index.php?Mlist=player_list

[passtheblizz]

Beasley has been scoring more for the USMNT lately... Pre-2002 he hardly ever really created any quality scoring chances for himself. His shot used to be really poor as well. The last few games he has played for the USMNT he has looked much more dangerous. Obviously he has been scoring for PSV too, some nice strikes included. Remember, playing LW for the Fire he never scored much. He has been playing inside more lately for the US and it has worked pretty well. I would LOVE to see Beas and EJ play up top together.

[XYZ1234]

Quite interesting, and thanks for posting. I think it speaks to why Ching is slowly moving ahead of McBride as the target forward, although BMB's EPL performance brought him back to life.

Ching's in the mix but his last game against Gautemala is a bit of a concern to me. He had so many good chances for a goal he should have finished at least one. It's only one game but I hope that wasn't a sign.

If he put one away there he would be 2nd on the list. He will get more chances when he's healthy.

[asdf2]

Interesting. But standard deviation is so high, that it's hard to judge soccer by statistics.

Another player ranking:

http://www.sams-army.com/index.php?Mlist=player_list

That link didn't work so good, but if you click around there you can rank players by their fan rankings for each game over the last few years or all time or whatever, by position, etc.

[voros]

Twellman had a very dangerous header that was blocked. Pope scored on the rebound.
He hit the post with a header earlier in the match as well. Those two and a fingertip save made by the New Zealand keeper are the closest he's come to scoring. As the above shows, he hasn't played nearly as much as people think he has.

One of Kirovski's goals was a clear own goal incorrectly credited to Kirovski (he hit a cross that deflected off the shoulder of the man marking him on the wing, and the ball looped over the stranded keeper on the deflection).

You should really add Bocanegra to the charts considering how many goals he's scored.

[XYZ1234]

Beasley has been scoring more for the USMNT lately...

I agree that Beasley has improved over the years but outside of Beasley's 3 goals in 2 games against Grenada he's never been a big goal scorer for the Nats. Don't know what it was about Grenada. Maybe he just had their number or he was hot that week. Those 2 games do inflate his numbers a bit.

[XYZ1234]

You should really add Bocanegra to the charts considering how many goals he's scored.

Bocanegra has 5 goals in 33 caps (from USsoccer)

That's a lot for a defender. Wonder what his goals per 90 would be.

He's scored a lot more goals than the other left backs Arena's used in the last couple years even if he isn't great going forward.

[elbita]

if you get ambitious, could you do assists too? or maybe points?
thanks for this one.

bocanegra's prowess on set pieces is almost reason enough for him to be out there. obviously he's solid at his primary role too. his hustle (and a nice serve and a nice follow-up) made the goal against england.

[Sachsen]

By popular demand:

-------Minutes------ -------Goals-------- Goals per
Player 2003 2004 2005 Total 2003 2004 2005 Total 90 Minutes
Bocanegra 1151 830 271 2252 4 1 0 5 0.20

Which places him just behind Beasley but ahead of Wolff, Mathis, Twellman, Casey, and Reyna. :eek:

[XYZ1234]

Thanks Sachsen

I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention Boca's goal scoring in any of the left back debates.

It's certainly worth mentioning. Instead of people getting caught up with ball skills maybe we should look at the goals and assists numbers and see who really does add more to the team offensively.

[voros]

Bocanegra has 5 goals in 33 caps (from USsoccer)

That's a lot for a defender. Wonder what his goals per 90 would be.

He's scored a lot more goals than the other left backs Arena's used in the last couple years even if he isn't great going forward.
He's pretty much scored them all on set pieces, meaning he's not contributing any more to the offense as a left back as he would as a center back.

[XYZ1234]

He's pretty much scored them all on set pieces, meaning he's not contributing any more to the offense as a left back as he would as a center back.I know his goals are from set pieces and I'm not comparing him at different positions. You misunderstood what I'm saying.

I'm saying Bocanegra is contributing more offensively as a left back than say Vanney or Convey.

The long standing argument for Bobby or Vanney at left back is that they add more to the offense than Bocanegra. I even went along with that. But do they really? The numbers don't say so.

Bobby has 1 goal and 3 assists in 1751 min since 1/1/2003.
Boca has 5 goals and 5 assists in 2252 min since 1/1/2003.
Vanney has 1 goal and 3 assists in 1133 min since 1/1/2003

Bobby --- Goals per 90 = .0514 --- Assists per 90 = .1542
Boca ---- Goals per 90 = .1998 --- Assists per 90 = .1998
Vanney -- Goals per 90 = .0794 --- Assists per 90 = .2383

Boca has by far the best goals per 90.
Vanney has the best assists per 90.

Convey is the worst of the 3 at both goals and assists per 90.

Boca is also the best of the 3 defensively.

[voros]

I know his goals are from set pieces and I'm not comparing him at different positions. You misunderstood what I'm saying.

I'm saying Bocanegra is contributing more offensively as a left back than say Vanney or Convey.
But you're making an either or argument when it could reasonably be a "both" argument. You'd get the same offense from Boca as a center back, plus the added offense of a real left back from the run of play (where Boca adds little to the attack from the position).

Hell, I'm guessing most of the goals from Bocanegra are as a center back.

As far as I'm concerned, Bocanegra is playing, period. It's just a matter of where.

[XYZ1234]

But you're making an either or argument when it could reasonably be a "both" argument. You'd get the same offense from Boca as a center back, plus the added offense of a real left back from the run of play (where Boca adds little to the attack from the position).

Hell, I'm guessing most of the goals from Bocanegra are as a center back.

As far as I'm concerned, Bocanegra is playing, period. It's just a matter of where.

Well you would be wrong to assume that. Bocanegra didn't play in 1/3rd of the qualifiers before moving to left back so I'm not assuming he is a lock at center back.

I understand that "Boca is a lock as a center back if he's not playing left back" has become your mantra of late, here and in the "penciled in" thread. But he isn't.

Why would anyone care that Boca's goals came when he was playing CB if they came off set pieces? It doesn't matter what position he was playing on those goals because on set pieces he wont be in his position, he will be infront of the goal.

I know at least 2 of his assists were from the left back position.

I don't see the point of ignoring usefull information just because it doesn't fit your agenda.

[elbita]

I don't see the point of ignoring usefull information just because it doesn't fit your agenda.

This is dangerously close to being a tautology...the fact that something doesn't fit one's agenda is one of the most common reasons for ignoring it. The facts don't fit your theory, get new facts. Just kidding.

If Boca gets more assists from left back than he does from center it would matter. If Boca + Convey/Vanney/Heydude results in more points AND gives up fewer goals, then that would be the way to go. Obviously that's a large IF but it's worth pondering.

I think Boca should play in the middle and we should try to get 12 guys on the field.

[XYZ1234]

This is dangerously close to being a tautology...the fact that something doesn't fit one's agenda is one of the most common reasons for ignoring it. The facts don't fit your theory, get new facts. Just kidding.

If Boca gets more assists from left back than he does from center it would matter. If Boca + Convey/Vanney/Heydude results in more points AND gives up fewer goals, then that would be the way to go. Obviously that's a large IF but it's worth pondering.

I think Boca should play in the middle and we should try to get 12 guys on the field.
Nice job of acting dumb just because I disagree with you in another thread. I pity you if you actually believe your own posts.