Resolved: the Caribbean should field a single, strong side for CONCACAF and WCQ...

[BBC_]

mmmmmmmmmmmm. this was a interesting thread. i was thinking about this the other day. But this would be a disservice to TNT & JA

[midknight]

Except that Martinique and Guadeloupe have relatively-strong national sides (French Guiana are no pushovers either). Only Saint-Martin is weak at a Caribbean level. Hawaii and Alaska are at least NEAR to the States. I believe that the 4 French West Indies should break away from the French federation and join FIFA. New Caledonia & Tahiti have done it in Oceania (their political setup is slightly different). Réunion also has this problem in Africa. They are associate members of the CAF, but can't join FIFA.

As an english speaking caribbean football fan living in france, this topic is particularly close to home... :D

Reunion, French Guiana, Martinique and Guadeloupe are French DOMs (Overseas Departments) whereas New Caledonia, Tahiti and the others are simply TOMs (Overseas Territories). The difference can be likened to that between Hawaii and Puerto Rico in the example of the US.

The political relationship of the DOMs with France is a burning issue but objectively speaking, when it comes to sports, France needs its Caribbean departments as much as the Caribbean departments need France. The Martiniquans et al rely on the central government to furnish a lot of the finance for their infrastructure and rely on the french leagues and structures to hone their skills and the French need their Martiniquans if they wanted to keep competitive in international sports (a large number of their athletes, footballers, fencers, judokas, etc are either born in the DOMS or eligible to represent them in a theoretical independent setting by parentage).

Any move to distance themselves from the Franch Football Federation would spark off a political effect too heavy to ignore. Unfortunately for these departments, political independence is not an option; they are way too economically and psychologically dependent on the metropole.

One other point...a unified french west indies might be even harder to put into place than a unified british west indies...the insularity separating these territories is equal if not worse to that which the british west indies face

[Jagermeister]

Everyone has neglected to state the main reason this will not happen.

Combine a region into one team and their voting power also should revert to one.

This would mean that Jack Warnar's reign would end, and the Capone-like system he set up (one island = one vote) would guarantee his ouster.
Warnar cares about money, T&T, the other islands, and no one else.

It would also lesson CONCACAF's voting power on the world stage which would give the region less clout.

Lastly, to compare cricket to soccer is silly. Cricket is a minor sport, that is virtually non existent outside of the old British Empire sphere of influence.
Can you imagine the embarrassment of watching single island nations playing the big teams? (Please don't tell me a team like T&T could be competetive, I know the game and sorry)

Money and politics first. This idea fits into neither.

Jack needs to keep paying off his island under bosses, who give little money back to their game and use it for their own fun, to keep his votes in place.
He needs to keep his influence to help T&T in any way he can.

Never ever will happen.

[midknight]

I believe that those who make the analogy with the West Indies Cricket Team should take count of the historical context of the formation of this entity.

The West Indian Cricket Team was conceived at a time when all of the english speaking caribbean were colonies of Great Britain and the population of these territories was maybe less than half of what it is now.
The idea of a unified West Indian Team when one presumes each island would have been more ignorant of the others than actually, has a lot to do with the fact that they all shared a similar subordinate status (to Britain) and a (roughly similar) ethnic background (Guyana and Trinidad are specific historical cases).

I do not know if the idea was forced upon the inhabitants of the colonies or if emanated from them, but history has shown that the WINDIES grew to be a strong collective unifying force, constant insularity and backbiting in the selection process and the allocation of matches notwithstanding.

The failure of the West Indian political federation put paid to almost any attempt at a similar experience and imho, the west indies cricket team only survived because it had existed way before the political experiments had begun, and it had also proven to be a strong winning formula.

Whatever the formula proposed, i do not see Trinidadians (and even Barbadians) wanting to be included in any such venture, and less so the Jamaicans who have already achieved World Cup status. However, that doesn't give me any illusions about the smaller islands swallowing their respective national prides.

At best, one may achieve the creation of several smaller 'all star teams' between islands of a similar development and status such as is done for the regional cricket tournaments with the 'Leeward Islands' and 'Windward Islands team'

It may be tempting to assume that the Northern Isles like the Virgins, Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Caymans (and maybe Bermuda) might go for a similar grouping, but I highly doubt it. (I admit my ignorance of these countries shamelessly)

However, what is clear is that if these federations are forced from the out side or from the top on an unwilling fan and player base, little good can come of it.
I also suspect that the same applies for Oceania.

[midknight]

Can you imagine the embarrassment of watching single island nations playing the big teams? (Please don't tell me a team like T&T could be competetive, I know the game and sorry)


I don't think that anyone in his right mind would even suggest it.
The closest anyone comes to it are the President's Elevens that touring teams play to warm up before a big match, kind of like on the same level as Brazil playing against a third division side from the host country before the WC

[DaMunk]

I believe that those who make the analogy with the West Indies Cricket Team should take count of the historical context of the formation of this entity.

[snip]

It may be tempting to assume that the Northern Isles like the Virgins, Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Caymans (and maybe Bermuda) might go for a similar grouping, but I highly doubt it. (I admit my ignorance of these countries shamelessly)

However, what is clear is that if these federations are forced from the out side or from the top on an unwilling fan and player base, little good can come of it.
I also suspect that the same applies for Oceania.


Excellent post!

I have said it many times before, it is simply not a good idea. Even IF someone could make it work, there would be people so put off by the process that they would simply stop supporting the game.

Midnight, I aknowledge and respect that you acknowledge your ignorance about the region. Many people posting here advocating for a combined team are not from the Caribbean or have any knowledge of it and are simply trying to impose their views on what would make CONCACAF better, when, in fact, better Caribbean teams is what will make CONCACAF better.

[midknight]

Excellent post!

I have said it many times before, it is simply not a good idea. Even IF someone could make it work, there would be people so put off by the process that they would simply stop supporting the game.

Midnight, I aknowledge and respect that you acknowledge your ignorance about the region. Many people posting here advocating for a combined team are not from the Caribbean or have any knowledge of it and are simply trying to impose their views on what would make CONCACAF better, when, in fact, better Caribbean teams is what will make CONCACAF better.

Is it in bad taste to ask for some rep? Just wondering :D

[Warlord]

I'd like to put my spin on this. I am Jamaican born and I can say emphatically that Jamaica nor TT will support a combined West Indies football team. Both countries have too much pride and will not go for it.

In Jamaica, national pride is something that people will live and die for. Besides, I've read these posts here and people seem to be forgetting one thing. If infact we somehow had a combined WI team....we would no longer have the Jam/TRI rivalry which a lot of people look forward to.

Not too mention also, there would be questions about player selection, and who would be on the commitee members would be selecting these players.

Jamaica loves their stars and so does TT for that matter. Case and point there was a big debate recently on the reggaeboyz site between Russell Latapy and Tappa.

We had TT fans on the site saying Latapy and Reggaeboyz fans stating that Tappa was better.

The rivalry is good for carribbean teams, it will spur each team on to become better. I know this cuz when Jamaica qualified for France in '98 alot of our carribbean neighbours were jealous of our success.

Since our qualification, I've noticed that St Kitts, St Vincent, Barbados and Grenada have improved a little bit.

[BBC_]

I'd like to put my spin on this. I am Jamaican born and I can say emphatically that Jamaica nor TT will support a combined West Indies football team. Both countries have too much pride and will not go for it.

In Jamaica, national pride is something that people will live and die for. Besides, I've read these posts here and people seem to be forgetting one thing. If infact we somehow had a combined WI team....we would no longer have the Jam/TRI rivalry which a lot of people look forward to.

Not too mention also, there would be questions about player selection, and who would be on the commitee members would be selecting these players.

Jamaica loves their stars and so does TT for that matter. Case and point there was a big debate recently on the reggaeboyz site between Russell Latapy and Tappa.

We had TT fans on the site saying Latapy and Reggaeboyz fans stating that Tappa was better.

The rivalry is good for carribbean teams, it will spur each team on to become better. I know this cuz when Jamaica qualified for France in '98 alot of our carribbean neighbours were jealous of our success.

Since our qualification, I've noticed that St Kitts, St Vincent, Barbados and Grenada have improved a little bit.
Huh? I wasnt. alot of my friends and friends parents and caribbeans in general were supporting jamaica because they a caribbean side in the world cup. Geesh you a real cocky yard man,eh, starting trouble.lol

[Warlord]

Huh? I wasnt. alot of my friends and friends parents and caribbeans in general were supporting jamaica because they a caribbean side in the world cup. Geesh you a real cocky yard man,eh, starting trouble.lol

Can you speak for all Carribbean people? Who you be? When Jamaica qualified in '98 I know for a given that alot of people from other islands in the carribbean were in fact jealous that little Jamaica got there as the first english speaking island in the carribbean.

If you think i'm cocky cuz i said that, that's your problem. The facts clearly demonstrated that issue back then.

So tell mi, which likkle small island you come from?

[DaMunk]

Is it in bad taste to ask for some rep? Just wondering :D

A little tacky, but deserved nonetheless. http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[BBC_]

Can you speak for all Carribbean people?
Nope, but i was talking about the majority in the uk


Who you be? When Jamaica qualified in '98 I know for a given that alot of people from other islands in the carribbean were in fact jealous that little Jamaica got there as the first english speaking island in the carribbean.

No need for that everyone has a say on the site. i wasnt arguing against you i was just telling you

If you think i'm cocky cuz i said that, that's your problem. The facts clearly demonstrated that issue back then.
I thought i could have a friendly joke with you, i know you wasnt being cocky i was teasing(islanders normally joke with each other without the seriousness,you should know that), i wasnt being insultive i was having a joke and you found it offensive. i wont joke with you again

So tell mi, which likkle small island you come from?
***sigh*** insults, it was a joke, take it you dont like ''small island'' people. its a shame because i promote caribbean togetherness.
Im actually born in the uk to parents from Antigua & Grenada(these are my 2nd and 3rd nationatlies,with roots else where in the caribbean aswell)
I'm not one of these people who fly the flag in labour day/notting hill and dont jack sh!t about the country, i know in depth about both and lived in antigua for some time

[BBC_]

I put this in the should concacaf improve thread
theres a good squad to choose from excluding JA and TNT players
this be nice for this competition called the unity cup in england where african and caribbean teams play each other. but not in general i think. dont think it would work


Janiel Simon (Antigua & Barbuda) GK
Gayson Gregory (Antigua & Barbuda) SC
Kelly Fredricks (Antigua & Barbuda) MC/SC
Akeem Grant (Antigua & Barbuda) M
Marc Joesph - (Antigua & Barbuda) D - Hull City
Rolston Phoenix - (Antigua & Barbada) M

Marlon Harewood (Barbados) SC - West Ham United
Wayne Andrews (Barbados) SC - Crystal Palace
Tom Soares (Barbados) - MC - Crystal Palace
Fitz Hall (Barbados) - DC/MC - Crystal Palace
Emmerson Boyce (Barbados) - DR - Crystal Palace
Mark McCammon (Barbados) - SC - Brighton
Paul Ifill (Barbados) MR - Sheffield United
Mark Boyce (Barbados) -DR/C
Gregory Goodridge (Barbados) - Brittons Hill(club in Bar)
Kenroy Skinner (Barbados) SC - Sagior Youth Milan (club in bar)
Ian Taylor (Barbados) - MC - Northampton Town
Adrian Pettagrew(Spelling) (Barbados) - Chelsea Res
Llewlyn Riley - (Barbados) SC
Matthew Joesph - (Barbados) DR - Canvey Island
Alvin Rouse (Barbados) GK - Sligo Rovers
Jonathan Straker (Barbados) DC - Sligo Rovers
Randy Millar (Barbados) ML - Sligo Rovers
Rivere Williams (Barbados) - Sligo Rovers
Luther Watson (Barbados) -
Eric Lavine (Barbados) SC - Longford Town
Michael Forde - (Barbados) MR/MC - Sagior Youth Milan

Jason Lee - SC (Cayman Islands) - Boston Town.


Alvin Bubb - MC (Grenada)
Byron Bubb - MR/SC (Grenada)
Anthony Bedeau - D/M/FC (Grenada) - Torquay
Kellon Baptiste - GK (Grenada)
Franklyn Bastiste
Ricky Charles - MRL/SC (Grenada)
Sharlie Joseph - DMC - Grenada - New England Revs
Anthony Modeste - D/MC (Grenada) - Portmore United
Patrick Modeste - (Grenada) - QPR (that’s QPR in Grenada)
Jason Roberts - SC (Grenada) - Wigan
Delroy Facey - SC (Grenada) - Oldham
Craig Roscastle - MC (Grenada) - Sheffield Wednesday
Ashley Sestanovich - MR (Grenada)
Camron Jerome - SC - (Grenada) - Cardiff

Nigel Codrington - SC - (Guyana) San Juan Jabloteh

Wayne Dyer - MC - (M'rat) - Hinckly(Spelling) Town
Lloyd Dyer - ML (M'Rat) - West Brom Albion
Junior Mendes - SC (M'Rat) - Huddlesfield Town

Calum Willock - SC (SKN) - Peterborough
Adam Newton - DR/MR (SKN) - Peterborough
Sagi Burton - DC (SKN) - Peterborough
Atiba Harris - MC (SKN) - Cadiz
Ian Lake - SC (SKN)

David Flavius - mc - (St Lucia)
Earl Jean - (St Lucia) (W-Connection)
Anton Ferdinand - (St.Lucia but most likely to play for England) West Ham United

Nathan Abbey - GK - (SVG) - Boston United
Jamal Ballantyne MR - (SVG)
Julian Charles SC - (SVG)
Wesley Charles DC - (SVG)
Shandel Samuel SC- (SVG)
Julian Joachim SC - (SVG) - Boston United
Rodney Jack - SC (SVG)
Kendall Velox - MF - (SVG)
Ezra Hendrickson DC – (SVG)

[midknight]

If I remember clearly, there was a lot of mixed sentiment. I think the most hostility came from Trinidadians who felt that seeing what the Strike Squad had achieved in 1989, and their predecessors in 1974 we were virtually 'reserved' the title of first english speaking caribbean team to qualify.
That said, I think most right thinking people were glad that they didn't advance but still happy that Jamaica beat Japan, just to prove to the world that Caribbean teams could be competetive on the world stage.

I assume that the 'diaspora communities' were a lot more supportive of the Jamaican team than the different countries back in the islands themselves. We tend to become all friendly friendly when we get out into the 'white man's' cold (as in a university setting) and support the West Indies alltogether once they get to england and beat them (its been a while now :o ) but when we're home we quarrel about who's been selected lol.

PS: Humour usually comes across very badly across the internet, even when we use smilies...If I were you BBC, I wouldn't worry too much about Warlord's barbs; his jamaican roots show through a lot...that's why he's so aggressive :D

[BBC_]

If I remember clearly, there was a lot of mixed sentiment. I think the most hostility came from Trinidadians who felt that seeing what the Strike Squad had achieved in 1989, and their predecessors in 1974 we were virtually 'reserved' the title of first english speaking caribbean team to qualify.
That said, I think most right thinking people were glad that they didn't advance but still happy that Jamaica beat Japan, just to prove to the world that Caribbean teams could be competetive on the world stage.

I assume that the 'diaspora communities' were a lot more supportive of the Jamaican team than the different countries back in the islands themselves. We tend to become all friendly friendly when we get out into the 'white man's' cold (as in a university setting) and support the West Indies alltogether once they get to england and beat them (its been a while now :o ) but when we're home we quarrel about who's been selected lol.

PS: Humour usually comes across very badly across the internet, even when we use smilies...If I were you BBC, I wouldn't worry too much about Warlord's barbs; his jamaican roots show through a lot...that's why he's so aggressive :D

LOL funny joke :D Im not worrying at it atall. i hope he knows i was joking

[Warlord]

Nope, but i was talking about the majority in the uk


No need for that everyone has a say on the site. i wasnt arguing against you i was just telling you

I thought i could have a friendly joke with you, i know you wasnt being cocky i was teasing(islanders normally joke with each other without the seriousness,you should know that), i wasnt being insultive i was having a joke and you found it offensive. i wont joke with you again

***sigh*** insults, it was a joke, take it you dont like ''small island'' people. its a shame because i promote caribbean togetherness.
Im actually born in the uk to parents from Antigua & Grenada(these are my 2nd and 3rd nationatlies,with roots else where in the caribbean aswell)
I'm not one of these people who fly the flag in labour day/notting hill and dont jack sh!t about the country, i know in depth about both and lived in antigua for some time


I have absolutely no problem with peeps from smaller islands, I just wanted to know where you came from. Maybe in the UK people were supportive but in the US here, alot of people were not at all. I would support any carribean team that makes it to the hex in concacaf....but that's just me.

Anyways, on a realistic level i think only Jamaica and Trinidad will continuously advance to the hex everytime cuz they always seem to. The other teams I mentioned have improved a little but they still have some ways to go.

Now back to the topic, A combined WI team will never happen. There's too much pride especially for Jamaica and Trinidad. One always think they're better than the other......although historically, Trinidad dominated Carribbean football. They've won the Carribean cup like 9 times but Jamaica has been more dominant in recent years. :)

[Warlord]

If I remember clearly, there was a lot of mixed sentiment. I think the most hostility came from Trinidadians who felt that seeing what the Strike Squad had achieved in 1989, and their predecessors in 1974 we were virtually 'reserved' the title of first english speaking caribbean team to qualify.
That said, I think most right thinking people were glad that they didn't advance but still happy that Jamaica beat Japan, just to prove to the world that Caribbean teams could be competetive on the world stage.

I assume that the 'diaspora communities' were a lot more supportive of the Jamaican team than the different countries back in the islands themselves. We tend to become all friendly friendly when we get out into the 'white man's' cold (as in a university setting) and support the West Indies alltogether once they get to england and beat them (its been a while now :o ) but when we're home we quarrel about who's been selected lol.

PS: Humour usually comes across very badly across the internet, even when we use smilies...If I were you BBC, I wouldn't worry too much about Warlord's barbs; his jamaican roots show through a lot...that's why he's so aggressive :D

And why would you think that I'm aggressive? Are you saying then that only Jamaicans in this world are aggressive? I think not. Maybe I should remind you that even tho I was born in Jamaica, my blood also has a bit of trini in it as my father is half trinidadian.

So you should not be so quick to judge me and other Jamaicans on this board ;)

[Kick The Ball]

Craig Roscastle could represent Trinidad also.....

Caribbean players based in T&T (Jamaica players apart)...

Antigua...

George Dublin - D - Joe Public
Gayson Gregory - F - Joe Public

Guyana...

Nigel Codrington - F - San Juan Jabloteh
Devaughn Dummette - M - San Juan Jabloteh
Kayode McKinnon - M - Caledonia AIA Fire
Howard Lowe - D - North East Stars
Charles Pollard - D - North East Stars
Travis Waterton - M - North East Stars
Kelvin McKensie - M - North East Stars
Walter Moore - M - North East Stars
Abassi McPherson - M - Joe Public
Carey Harris - M - Joe Public

Montserrat...

Jaffar Munroe - F - North East Stars

St Kitts...

George Isaac - MF - W Connection

St Lucia...

Earl Jean - F - W Connection
Elijah Joseph - D - W Connection
Randolph Jerome - F - W Connection
Vernus Abbott - M - Caledonia AIA Fire
Titus Elva - F - Caledonia AIA Fire

St Vincent...

Kendall Velox - MF - North East Stars
Melvin Andrews GK - Joe Public

Plus many more...

[BBC_]

Craig Roscastle could represent Trinidad also.....


Even though i have Trini Blood. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
say it ent so :( poor Grenada they gonna lose out

[BBC_]

Craig Roscastle could represent Trinidad also.....

Caribbean players based in T&T (Jamaica players apart)...

Antigua...

George Dublin - D - Joe Public
Gayson Gregory - F - Joe Public

Guyana...

Nigel Codrington - F - San Juan Jabloteh
Devaughn Dummette - M - San Juan Jabloteh
Kayode McKinnon - M - Caledonia AIA Fire
Howard Lowe - D - North East Stars
Charles Pollard - D - North East Stars
Travis Waterton - M - North East Stars
Kelvin McKensie - M - North East Stars
Walter Moore - M - North East Stars
Abassi McPherson - M - Joe Public
Carey Harris - M - Joe Public

Montserrat...

Jaffar Munroe - F - North East Stars

St Kitts...

George Isaac - MF - W Connection

St Lucia...

Earl Jean - F - W Connection
Elijah Joseph - D - W Connection
Randolph Jerome - F - W Connection
Vernus Abbott - M - Caledonia AIA Fire
Titus Elva - F - Caledonia AIA Fire

St Vincent...

Kendall Velox - MF - North East Stars
Melvin Andrews GK - Joe Public

Plus many more...

What ones are there from Grenada?