Official German "Nationalmannschaft" thread

[footyfan1]

Wiese and Weidenfeller are certainly the future, but they are NOT ready yet and should NOT play in next year's WC.


Nobody ever said they should play next year's World Cup.

Why do you seem to feel "threatened" anytime anyone brings up who's better than Kahn??

BTW, I can't completely agree with the "they are NOT ready yet". Talentwise, I think they are as "ready" as they are going to get. It's only experience they are lacking.

Kahn definitely has that WC atmosphere experience over everyone besides Lehmann, but when was the last time any keeper won on experience alone??



And don't worry about Kahn in goal next year, its his last action so I'm sure he'll turn up his game, just have some confidence in him.

Sorry. Not as easy for me. I don't worship Kahn. I see what he's been since 2002. I'm not comfortable with him being in goal for Germany anymore.

Kahn's mistakes in Euro 2004 qualifying and during the tournament confirmed that. Germany qualified for that tourney DESPITE Kahn, not because of him.

He acts like he's being "gracious" in stepping down after the World Cup. He should have stepped down after Euro 2004.

If it is Kahn next year, and I'm almost sure it will be, I just hope the guy from 2002 shows up again. We'll see this Bundesliga season. If that guy shows up, not only will I be happy for Germany, I'll even clap for him. :)

[arthur d]

You really think a guy playing in Scotland is going to get consideration??

That's like me telling Uli Hoeness he should sign my son because my son scored 30 goals in his local league.

Klos was once Germany #3 behind Andreas Koepke and Oliver Kahn. He was even ranked ahead of Lehmann.

Klos blew that when he went to Scotland, Lehmann took Klos' place at Dortmund and did the job better than Klos ever did.

You realise you sound a tad arrogant here... not intentional I am sure. The main reason Klos blew it by going to Scotland is that players at Rangers or Celtic (better teams than many Bundesliga teams) don't get enough consideration. Klos did a better job in Glasgow than he ever did in Dortmund. I don't know what happened to him this year though, might be injured or have become to old. Sure, the Scottish league is not great, but it's not as bad as people often assume. Remember that even players who were in the second Bundesliga are doing rather well for the national team...

[footyfan1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by footyfan1
You really think a guy playing in Scotland is going to get consideration??

That's like me telling Uli Hoeness he should sign my son because my son scored 30 goals in his local league.

Klos was once Germany #3 behind Andreas Koepke and Oliver Kahn. He was even ranked ahead of Lehmann.

Klos blew that when he went to Scotland, Lehmann took Klos' place at Dortmund and did the job better than Klos ever did.




You realise you sound a tad arrogant here... not intentional I am sure.

I do apologize for that. However, I don't think much of that league. Name another "major league" where two clubs have won all the titles for the past 20 years?




The main reason Klos blew it by going to Scotland is that players at Rangers or Celtic (better teams than many Bundesliga teams) don't get enough consideration. Klos did a better job in Glasgow than he ever did in Dortmund.

I don't believe that one bit. Klos was a major part of a team who went to a UEFA Cup Final (1993), won two Bundesliga titles (1995 & 1996) and a Champions' League Winner (1997).

You are going to tell me winning Scottish titles and cups while making early CL and UEFA Cup exits are "doing a better job than he ever did in Dortmund"?

I don't think so.




I don't know what happened to him this year though, might be injured or have become to old.

Klos got injured. Klos is 34. Lehmann is 35, turning 36 November, and Kahn turned 36 last week.





Sure, the Scottish league is not great, but it's not as bad as people often assume. Remember that even players who were in the second Bundesliga are doing rather well for the national team...

I used to follow the Scottish League. I like Celtic, mainly for the fan friendship with Dortmund and the passion of their fans. I also like Motherwell because of a good friend of mine there.

And yes, he gave me much s#it after Motherwell's upset of Celtic. I got a smile from it.

That's the one thing I give the Scottish League "props" for. The fans don't take a back seat to anyone. They are impressive.

But the football?? That's another story.

Honestly, I've only seen one SPL match in two years, yes, an Old Firm match, but from the people I still chat with, the league as a whole hasn't gotten any better.

[SirManchester]

Again, Kahn was way better this season than the previous two, he is coming back to form and he is becoming more consistent.

[footyfan1]

Again, Kahn was way better this season than the previous two, he is coming back to form and he is becoming more consistent.


If you say so.

I say Kahn's decline is the reason Bayern went out and got Lucio to bolster the defense.

And even then, he made mistakes you'd never see out of him before......

So, can we agree to disagree again? We'd just be going over the same old stuff.

[shutoutj]

Again, Kahn was way better this season than the previous two, he is coming back to form and he is becoming more consistent.
Better than he was during the last two seasons? So was every other keeper in the Bundesliga except Mathias Hain and Raphael Schäfer, and maybe a couple others. Kahn is still a shadow of his former self.
It's not a big feat to improve on performances like that horrible error against Real Madrid, against Romania, etc.
Just because he has been improving does not mean he will continue to improve.

[SirManchester]

Better than he was during the last two seasons? So was every other keeper in the Bundesliga except Mathias Hain and Raphael Schäfer, and maybe a couple others. Kahn is still a shadow of his former self.
It's not a big feat to improve on performances like that horrible error against Real Madrid, against Romania, etc.
Just because he has been improving does not mean he will continue to improve.

Sure it does, when someone has a bad season and he starts to get better, theres only one way to go, and thats up.

[footyfan1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutoutj
Better than he was during the last two seasons? So was every other keeper in the Bundesliga except Mathias Hain and Raphael Schäfer, and maybe a couple others. Kahn is still a shadow of his former self.
It's not a big feat to improve on performances like that horrible error against Real Madrid, against Romania, etc.
Just because he has been improving does not mean he will continue to improve.


Sure it does, when someone has a bad season and he starts to get better, theres only one way to go, and thats up.


Kahn didn't get any better. Bayern's defense did.

[HerrRupert]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutoutj
Better than he was during the last two seasons? So was every other keeper in the Bundesliga except Mathias Hain and Raphael Schäfer, and maybe a couple others. Kahn is still a shadow of his former self.
It's not a big feat to improve on performances like that horrible error against Real Madrid, against Romania, etc.
Just because he has been improving does not mean he will continue to improve.





Kahn didn't get any better. Bayern's defense did.

no kahn got vastly better he is aproaching his old fporm in my opion he is still the best german gk by a wide margin

[arthur d]

I do apologize for that. However, I don't think much of that league. Name another "major league" where two clubs have won all the titles for the past 20 years?

I don't believe that one bit. Klos was a major part of a team who went to a UEFA Cup Final (1993), won two Bundesliga titles (1995 & 1996) and a Champions' League Winner (1997).

You are going to tell me winning Scottish titles and cups while making early CL and UEFA Cup exits are "doing a better job than he ever did in Dortmund"?

I don't think so.

Klos got injured. Klos is 34. Lehmann is 35, turning 36 November, and Kahn turned 36 last week.

I used to follow the Scottish League. I like Celtic, mainly for the fan friendship with Dortmund and the passion of their fans. I also like Motherwell because of a good friend of mine there.

And yes, he gave me much s#it after Motherwell's upset of Celtic. I got a smile from it.

That's the one thing I give the Scottish League "props" for. The fans don't take a back seat to anyone. They are impressive.

But the football?? That's another story.

Honestly, I've only seen one SPL match in two years, yes, an Old Firm match, but from the people I still chat with, the league as a whole hasn't gotten any better.

Don't get me wrong, footyfan. Of course the Scottish league is not very good, maybe 10th in Europe, about as good as Greece or Turkey. I just don't like it if a player is unfairly dismissed simply because he plays in Scotland. The top two teams in Scotland (and let's face it, the others are hardly worth considering) have had their fair share of very talented players. The fact that Henrik Larsson played for Celtic doesn't make him a bad player, surely.

And you are right, I was exaggerating when I said Klos did a better job in Glasgow than in Dortmund. But what he did for Rangers didn't receive enough attention in Germany. Hardly anyone knows that he's Rangers' captain and has been their most important player in many matches. Of course he's no alternative to Kahn and Lehmann now. But no reason to dimiss him like you did, that's not fair to a great player and a fine person.

On a related note, Lehmann seems very overrated simply because he plays for Arsenal. I have seen most of his matches in England over the last two years, and it's been far from flawless. I found myself cringing many times when he flopped at yet another corner or made one of his suicidal runs out of the box. His performance in the national team is another story of course.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

no kahn got vastly better he is aproaching his old fporm in my opion he is still the best german gk by a wide margin

Well, if measuring by wide margins i guess you are right, Kahn must be the best. :p

[  ]

Looks like Klinsmann has somewhat answered my prayers and stated that the number 1 goalkeeper will only be decided in May 2006; meaning Kahn, Lehmann and Hildebrand all have an equal chance to impress. I hope this also includes other goalkeepers like Wiese, Rost and Jentzsch.

[scorpio81]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=336143&cc=5901

uli says...

[footyfan1]

Looks like Klinsmann has somewhat answered my prayers and stated that the number 1 goalkeeper will only be decided in May 2006; meaning Kahn, Lehmann and Hildebrand all have an equal chance to impress. I hope this also includes other goalkeepers like Wiese, Rost and Jentzsch.



I'd say Enke, Jentzsch, Weidenfeller and Wiese. Right now, I rate those four above the three in contention.

However, none have the experience of Kahn or Lehmann.

However, I think Klinsi will limit the competition to those three, with Hildebrand being the only one with a real chance of being supplanted by one of the other four mentioned.

I don't mention Rost becuase I think he burned his bridges with his b!tching about not getting a fair chance this past season.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

I'd say Enke, Jentzsch, Weidenfeller and Wiese. Right now, I rate those four above the three in contention.

However, none have the experience of Kahn or Lehmann.

However, I think Klinsi will limit the competition to those three, with Hildebrand being the only one with a real chance of being supplanted by one of the other four mentioned.

I don't mention Rost becuase I think he burned his bridges with his b!tching about not getting a fair chance this past season.

I think less competition would be better here...3 is good enough, having too many might make things complicated.

[footyfan1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by footyfan1
I'd say Enke, Jentzsch, Weidenfeller and Wiese. Right now, I rate those four above the three in contention.

However, none have the experience of Kahn or Lehmann.

However, I think Klinsi will limit the competition to those three, with Hildebrand being the only one with a real chance of being supplanted by one of the other four mentioned.

I don't mention Rost becuase I think he burned his bridges with his b!tching about not getting a fair chance this past season.


I think less competition would be better here...3 is good enough, having too many might make things complicated.


How?? This isn't rocket science, it's football. You try to determine who the best man for the job is by viewing them all.

Not for WC 2006, but definitely afterwards. I don't think Timo Hildebrand should be "handed" the job after Kahn and Lehmann either retire or are retired.

For too long, one man has been handed the German job and kept it no matter what.

No more giving someone the job because of who he is or what he did in the past. May the best keeper in the best form win.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Quote:
Originally Posted by footyfan1
I'd say Enke, Jentzsch, Weidenfeller and Wiese. Right now, I rate those four above the three in contention.

However, none have the experience of Kahn or Lehmann.

However, I think Klinsi will limit the competition to those three, with Hildebrand being the only one with a real chance of being supplanted by one of the other four mentioned.

I don't mention Rost becuase I think he burned his bridges with his b!tching about not getting a fair chance this past season.






How?? This isn't rocket science, it's football. You try to determine who the best man for the job is by viewing them all.

Not for WC 2006, but definitely afterwards. I don't think Timo Hildebrand should be "handed" the job after Kahn and Lehmann either retire or are retired.

For too long, one man has been handed the German job and kept it no matter what.

No more giving someone the job because of who he is or what he did in the past. May the best keeper in the best form win.

Yea i did mean WC 2006, afterwards, I'm all for a free for all, but if you give a lot of goalies a chance for WC 2006, you're going to disappoint a few...

The three we have right now are the right choice, I still have faith in Kahn, if not Lehmann. I'd like to see Hildebrand more often, I do believe he is a tad overrated, but I just haven't see much of the lad.

[footyfan1]

Yea i did mean WC 2006, afterwards, I'm all for a free for all, but if you give a lot of goalies a chance for WC 2006, you're going to disappoint a few...


So what? They are men, not children. You deal with disappointment and try harder next time.


The three we have right now are the right choice, I still have faith in Kahn, if not Lehmann. I'd like to see Hildebrand more often, I do believe he is a tad overrated, but I just haven't see much of the lad.

I'm the other way around. I have faith in Lehmann, I think Kahn will show up, but I can't say I'm confident about it and I think Hildebrand is supremely overrated and living off the Stuttgart defensive performances of the two seasons before this past season.

This past season, Hildebrand was a tad "above average" at best. Weidenfeller, Jentzsch, Enke and Rost were all better than Hildebrand. Hell, even the season before that, I'd say Wiese was better than Hildebrand too.

Hildebrand is just living off those gaudy numbers posted by that vaunted Stuttgart defense. Which is going to fall apart this coming season. Then, you'll see what kind of keeper Hildebrand really is.

I thought we did this season.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Timo showed he was a good GK in Champions League 2003 IMO...w/out him Stuttgart would have been lucky with 2 pts... I agree he was a bit disappointing this year, but I don't remember a game w/ him in goal where he 1) gave up a howler) and/or 2) gave up many goals other than against Bayern. He's solid, and thats what you want in a goalie, not some Barthez wannabe who would like to take a walk on the wild side.

[ohk4]

posted this in another thread and thought it might be appropriate here


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannover96Girl
I think this article is absolutely great:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/we...ikel/926/55871/

Here is my effort. Not near as funny as the original but maybe you can get the idea.

How was I?

subjective players breakdowns after the Confed Cup

The Goalies

Oliver Kahn: Played the whole tourney, that is, unless Lehmann played or Hildebrand played. Only allowed in the whole tourney six goals and kept getting betterbetterbetterbetter. Against Australia only three of the three shots went into the back of the net. As a person, the team can't do without him: Als Typ unverzichtbar fürs Team: Isn't his brooding nature (?) refreshing. Otherwise, nobody could have dealt with this never-ending euphoria. With his wild clearances out of bounds looks like he is trying get in line for Robert Huth's position.

Jens Lehmann: Played the whole tourney, that is, unless Kahn played or Hildebrand played. Played well but couldn't replace Kahn the person. Was never really able to inspire the defense with entertaining mistakes. The highpoint was boredom: didn't allow any goals against Tunisia, which led to Klinsmann declaring Kahn the definite number one. But was able to get Klinsi to reintroduce the rotation system by allowing in three goals against Brazil. With his precise clearances looks like he is trying to take over Per Mertesacker's position.

Timo Hildebrand: Played the whole tourney, except the games against Australia, Tunesia, Brazil and Mexico. Showed against Argentina how close he is to Kahn's ability: Five shots, two goals - not a bad rate. A small minus was the fact that he was able to save a goal on crowd favorite Robert Huth's header back to the keeper.

tune in later for more, but will gladly accept help.