Players Changing National Teams, ?

[beachesl]

Does anyone know when and why FIFA brought in the rule that a player who has played for one national team cannot play for another. It was obviously enacted after 1962 when Puskas played for Spain after playing for Hungary in 1954, and there obviusly have been some ammendments to allow new nations such as Croatia to play players from previous national teams such as Yugoslavia. Any information anyone can provide would bre appreciated.

[iansfavouritecopilot]

I dont know when the rule was brought in, but I do recall a few years ago that Sean Dundee swapped Nat teams.

He played for Karlsruhe (or some German side) and South Africa, then he got one cap for Germany. Dunno how this worked.

Someone correct me if Im wrong....


*Ian*

[Knave]

I thought South Africa was banned from international competetion for some years. Perhaps this was during that time.

[iansfavouritecopilot]

Hmmm, maybe

But surely if this was the case, Mark Fish would have done something similar.

If I remeber correctly, he was playing for Lazio and linked with Man Utd........

???

[Merengue]

The rule is if you play in an "official" match for one country (i.e World Cup match, World Cup qualifying or regional nation's championship or qualifying -i.e. Copa America, Euro Nations Cup, Gold Cup, etc.) you are no longer able to play any official match for another nation (by the way this also applies if you play in any of those matches at the youth level too).

This is meant to prevent situations like what happened with Ferenc Puskas playing first for Hungary and then Spain or Luisito Monti playing forr Argentina in the 1930 World cup (runner-up) then playing, and winning, the World Cup for Italy in 1934.

As mentioned if you played for a unified nation (such as the old Yugoslavia) and a new country emerges from that (i.e. Croatia) you can play for the new country even though you've already appeared in an official match fro the old unified nation.

[n00bie deluxe]

What is the logic behind this rule? Is it to prevent players from getting "several bites at the apple"? (i.e. if you don't qualify on one team, you have a back up.)

[Doctor Stamen]

It's to stop international matches looking silly by players chopping and changing their nations at a whim. It would look silly if Stephan Henchoz suddenly started playing for England now he's probably lived here for 5 years, or someone with a flexible passport like Graeme Le Saux playing for Northern Ireland now he's out of the England team.

What's the point in having internationals if the players could move about in a similar fashion to club football ?. There would be little pride in playing for your country if 7 other players were from Holland, Uganda, Germany or wherever and were in the team because of residency.

[Excape Goat]

1) I recalled Sean Dundee never played for South Africa. He was called up many times, but he was "injuried" on each occassion. It was later discovered that he was waiting for his German citizenship. I don't know whether he played in any "unofficial" game.

2) A few players swapped national teams because they never played in an official match. I can only name American players. Martin Vasquez played for both USA and Mexico. David Wagner played for both Germany youth team and the USA. I think a Jamaican has the honor for playing for Wales, Jamaica and Scotland a few years ago.

3) FIFA made some execeptions for Yugoslavia, Czechoslvakia and USSR when they broke up in the early 90's. However, the players were given only once chance to select the new national teams. Some ex-Soviet players from Ukraine actually selected Russia because Russia took over the international status left behind by the Soviet Union(Russia was in the 1994 WCQ, not the rest of former Soviet Union). The same goes for Germany after unification.

3)

[AvidSinger]

What are the rules about international duties? For instance, if a player leaves his home country for, say, political reasons, can he refuse to play for its national team if he no longer wishes to set foot on his home soil?

[beachesl]

According to the regualtions of 2001. Articles 37 to 41, see http://www.fifa2.com/scripts/runisa.dll?M2:gp::67173+stat-trans/reg/index+E , any player is obligated to play for a team when the National Association of the country of which he has citizenship asks.

This would seem to apply even if the player doesn't wish to , even for political reasons. So, for example, if a player defects from North Korea even if he hasn't played for a national team, and plays for a professional team in Europe, he would have to report for any FIFA sanctioned match in North Korea (where he would preumably disaapear) or be subject (along with his club) to penalty. Surely this
would somehow not be permitted to happen, but thems the rules.

The rules also mean that a player who has citienship with more than 1 country could be simultaneously obligated to appear for both National teams until he has lost his "viginity" with one.

The rules also mean that a player, like Shearer, cannot "retire" or "resign" from a National team, as he can always be subject to a "draft" under the rules.

Interesting. I'm sure that one of the reasons for the rule preventing a player from switching national teams is a holdover from the cold war, brought in at the insistence of the Communist associations in the late 60's (if that was when, I still haven't found out when) to prevent a repeat of the Pukas Hungary/Spain situation. The reasons for these latest Articles are quite a bit more transparent, and probably acceptable to all except the most diehard club fans and the clubs themselves. Sure reduces the potential value of a player from another continent in the Euopean professional leagues though, don't it?

[beachesl]

I'm just getiing very bitter knowing that Owen Hargreaves, born, raised, trained and lived all his life in Canada until he signed a contract to play with Bayern (in Germany, not even in Britain) will never play for Canada becuase he has elected to play for England (over both Canada and his mother's Wales). This besides the fact that he has never (and may never) resided in Britain. Only because he had a father born in England. Canada could have forced the issue by forcing him to play for Canada before he played for England, but that is not the Canadian way.

Maybe there should be exceptons, such as allowing a switch before the player turns 21, so a decision as a teenager should not haunt the player all his life, or to allow a change after 4 or 5 years notice.

[sidspaceman]

Meeting under the chairmanship of FIFA Executive Committee member Slim Aloulou (Tunisia) in Zurich today, the FIFA Players’ Status Committee endorsed a proposal to revise Article 18, par. 2 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes, which is considered to be incompatible with modern-day requirements.
At present, the article in question states that "any player who is qualified to play for more than one national association (i.e. who has dual nationality) will be deemed to have committed himself to one association only when he plays his first international match (or part thereof) in an official competition (at any level) for that association."

http://www.fifa.com/Service/MR_M/45978_E.html

[AvidSinger]

Originally posted by beachesl
According to the regualtions of 2001. Articles 37 to 41, see http://www.fifa2.com/scripts/runisa.dll?M2:gp::67173+stat-trans/reg/index+E , any player is obligated to play for a team when the National Association of the country of which he has citizenship asks.That's actually fairly vaguely worded, since bot all countries have the same citizenship "rules."

For instance, let's say there are two countries called Boogistan to Turvania. Turvania requires that, to become a citizen, one must renounce citizenship of all other countries. Boogistan, however, claims that anybody born on its soil is a citizen.

John Doe was Born in Boogistan, but his family emigrated to Turvania when he was very young. Doe becomes a world class footballer and longs to represent his home country of Turvania. Boogistan, realizing that Doe was born in their country, requests Doe to play in an international friendly.

Tricky.

[burning247]

Originally posted by Doctor Stamen
It's to stop international matches looking silly by players chopping and changing their nations at a whim. It would look silly if Stephan Henchoz suddenly started playing for England now he's probably lived here for 5 years, or someone with a flexible passport like Graeme Le Saux playing for Northern Ireland now he's out of the England team.

What's the point in having internationals if the players could move about in a similar fashion to club football ?. There would be little pride in playing for your country if 7 other players were from Holland, Uganda, Germany or wherever and were in the team because of residency.

My thoughts exactly. You are defeating the point of a national team, if the players aren't from there somehow. Granted there is some exceptions, but the system is good.

[Samarkand]

Originally posted by beachesl
Canada could have forced the issue by forcing him to play for Canada before he played for England, but that is not the Canadian way.
Regardless of what is or isn't the "Canadian way", the fact is that Canada could not have "forced" Hargreaves to play for them. All that would have happened is that Canada would have called him up, he would have refused, Canada would have pouted, and Hargreaves would be in exactly the same position as he is now - an English international.

[Sachin]

Originally posted by AvidSinger
That's actually fairly vaguely worded, since bot all countries have the same citizenship "rules."

For instance, let's say there are two countries called Boogistan to Turvania. Turvania requires that, to become a citizen, one must renounce citizenship of all other countries. Boogistan, however, claims that anybody born on its soil is a citizen.

John Doe was Born in Boogistan, but his family emigrated to Turvania when he was very young. Doe becomes a world class footballer and longs to represent his home country of Turvania. Boogistan, realizing that Doe was born in their country, requests Doe to play in an international friendly.

Tricky.

Actually, not all countries have the same citizenship rules. They vary widely.

But back to your scenario: Doe could refuse the callup and wait for the Turvanian callup instead. The reverse situation happened with Craig Zaidie of the Metrostars, who turned down a callup to Jamaica ahead of the 2002 World Cup Qualifiers because he thought he had a shot at the USA team. That never materialized, so now he's playing for Jamaica.

One other point, playing in an international friendly does not cap-tie a person. The officially sanctioned events that matter are any age group World Cup (U-17, U-20, Olympic/U-23, or Full), qualifiers for those tournaments, Confederation Championships or qualfiers for those tournaments.

Sachin

[Excape Goat]

I think the rule meant that the national FA has the priority over the clubs. If the USSF called up Reyna, he must give up his club committment for national duty. But no one can force Reyna to play for the national team if he does not wish to.

[DoyleG]

An example of the old rules would be Frank Yallop. Before he became cap-tied to Canada, he had several caps with English youth teams. If he did this under today's rules, he would be cap-tied to England. Several Canadian players could play for other countries.

As for the political situation, it goes like this:

If a player has been forced off a national team for political reasons, he can apply to join another national team. There are two conditions to this.

1) The player has ciztzenship to the coutry he wishes to join.
2) The federation that he wishes to join makes an application on his behalf.

Even then, the process is rarely used and is as rarely sucessful.

[Canadian_Supporter]

Chris Armas played a few games with Puerto Rico back in the mid 90's. I believe he played in the Shell Cup qualifying....

Correct me if I am wrong :)

[fatmaradona]

Originally posted by DoyleG
An example of the old rules would be Frank Yallop. Before he became cap-tied to Canada, he had several caps with English youth teams. If he did this under today's rules, he would be cap-tied to England. Several Canadian players could play for other countries.

As for the political situation, it goes like this:

If a player has been forced off a national team for political reasons, he can apply to join another national team. There are two conditions to this.

1) The player has ciztzenship to the coutry he wishes to join.
2) The federation that he wishes to join makes an application on his behalf.

Even then, the process is rarely used and is as rarely sucessful.

Neil Lennon should do this to play for the Republic