discussion of CL Final refereeing [R]

[blech]

To pick up a discussion that was started in another thread, but which did not have an [r] in the title, what did everyone think of the officiating at today's Champions League final?

Gonzalez probably was a little "loose" in not calling Dudek for coming off his line during the PKs, but nothing out of the ordinary for an international match. I thought other than that possible complaint, he called a very good game. The pk awarded to Liverpool was deserved, and to his credit there was a camera angle that showed him right behind the play and in a good position to make the call.

What did everyone think of the non-call of the PK, which then set off the counterattack that put Liverpool down 2-0? Seemed like it could have gone either way, but not horrible not to call it.

Other thoughts, analysis???

[Paddy31]

I have to agree with you. I thought the ref had an excellent game, and let the play develop nicely, through good use of the advantage rule.

He made some mistakes, obviously, but over 120 mins who wouldn't. And I think his errors were generally minor.

For me, it was a stone cold penalty when Nesta handballed before the second Milan goal. That should have been given, but I understand why it wasn't. The ref has to be sure it wasn't accidental, and I suppose he wasn't certain. The Gattuso foul on Gerrard at the other end could have been a cardable offence, but why bother. It would only spoil a good game.

I know there is some arguemnet that the Assistant was flagging before the second Lierpool goal, but I think the ref overruled his linesman's call. Basically, he ruled that the offside was not interfering with play.

Fianlly, he let Dudek get away with murder on some of those penalties. £ steps forward - should have been retaken!

Overall, I think he was great. Not Collina great - but getting there!

I loved the game though. That's entertainment!

[Garkbit]

The Gattuso foul on Gerrard at the other end could have been a cardable offence, but why bother. It would only spoil a good game.

Because it looked to me like an absolute complete and total stick-it-on-an-instructional-video obvious goalscoring opportunity. Attacker in the area virtually bang in front of goal with keeper on his line and no player within tackling range, he's going to shoot, he gets fouled. How is that not DOGSO? The player's spoiled things for himself by committing the foul.

I know there is some arguemnet that the Assistant was flagging before the second Lierpool goal, but I think the ref overruled his linesman's call. Basically, he ruled that the offside was not interfering with play.

How could he have over-ruled it? He never waved him down, he never so much as looked across at him. Unless they've got some ultra-secret microphones or a buzzer going back from the ref to the assistant, I'm certain that was the assistant using his own initiative: he saw AC clear the ball, judged they'd had the same advantage they'd have got from a free kick and that the ref thought there was no question of offside anyway (because if he had, he'd have looked across) and put his flag down.

[kwik1980]

I thought it was pretty clean, up to the shootout. They got the offsides right on the disallowed Shevchenko goal, and the incident before the 2nd Milan goal was a tossup. The 2nd half penalty was a good call too.

Dudek got away with one in the shootout though. Ignoring the dancing on the line, he was, as said, at least 3 steps off the line on the Pirlo attempt. I don't know if it was an ESPN decision or not, but on the behind-the-goal replay that they showed of that attempt, Dudek was moving forward just about as soon as Pirlo makes his run to the ball. My tape cut off, so I don't know if they showed a replay of the Shevchenko attempt, but at the least, the Pirlo attempt should have been retried. That was the most glaring error though. For the 120 minutes of regular play, it was a good performance by the refereeing team.

[GKbenji]

For me, it was a stone cold penalty when Nesta handballed before the second Milan goal. That should have been given, but I understand why it wasn't. The ref has to be sure it wasn't accidental, and I suppose he wasn't certain.

I disagree there. Nesta slid to block what he thought would be a Luis Garcia shot. LG didn't pull the trigger, so Nesta ended up lying up on the ground in front of him, in a completely natural position for one who has just slid to the turf. LG then strikes the ball, knocking it into Nesta's arm. Absolutely no deliberation on Nesta's part to handle the ball, IMHO.

But overall, a very well called game. Imagine that... not one but two top-notch finals, going 90 plus extra time and KFTM, and both well-refereed with no major controversies, within a week (FA Cup final and CL final). Well done, sirs!

[RushOnze]

I thought it was pretty clean, up to the shootout. They got the offsides right on the disallowed Shevchenko goal, and the incident before the 2nd Milan goal was a tossup.

Not sure about that. If you watch the replay the ball is knocked to Shevchenko by the Liverpool defender. Of course that would have been hard for the AR to see, but the ref could have overruled. It least it should have been worth some comments from the announcers. But then again it was Shamus, who once again, was the worse part of the broadcast.

[whistleblowerusa]

To pick up a discussion that was started in another thread, but which did not have an [r] in the title, what did everyone think of the officiating at today's Champions League final?

Gonzalez probably was a little "loose" in not calling Dudek for coming off his line during the PKs, but nothing out of the ordinary for an international match. I thought other than that possible complaint, he called a very good game. The pk awarded to Liverpool was deserved, and to his credit there was a camera angle that showed him right behind the play and in a good position to make the call.

What did everyone think of the non-call of the PK, which then set off the counterattack that put Liverpool down 2-0? Seemed like it could have gone either way, but not horrible not to call it.

Other thoughts, analysis???
Although I am glad that Liverpool won I thought that Gonzalez was sold on the PK for them. There was slight contact and then a few steps later Gerrard goes down a little too hard. When I saw the incident as it happened I said to myself no foul dive. Then on the replay you could see that there was some very small contact which Gerrard plays through and then goes down after a few steps without any contact of the legs. The flop was very dramatic and Gonzalez, who was behind the play, went for it. Gerrard played Gonzalez perfectly and set up that PK and goal. After all, that is what he gets paid to do. Score goals.

[Englishref]

I thought he had a mare by his high standards. He got several major decisions wrong. However, I agreed about the non-PK for 'handball'.

But he ignored/overruled/played advantage from an offside given by his AR who had got every offside spot on for 120 mins, which directly lead to the Liverpool 2nd goal. Had it been given, Liverpool could not have scored.

Secondly, I thought the penalty decision was correct, however, there had to be some card. The concensus among the refs I've spoken to is it was an OGSO, however, I think Cafu was near enough to have some doubt and a yellow was in order. However, he gave nothing, which was an amazing decision.

Thirdly, he allowed Dudek to come off his line by at least 4 yards to save 2 penalties. Although you can split the blame with his AR who is on the goal line for a reason. Again, had Dudek been made to stay on his line, as he is made to in the PL, Milan would have had the chance to retake their pens, and had the chance to take their retaken pens from 12 yards rather than 8.

He also made several other more minor decisions, like not booking mandatory cynical tackles and pulls.

However, his advantage use was up to it's usual high standard.

I don't like criticising MMG, as he is my favourite UEFA ref, but he made several big mistakes last night.

[ZipSix]

It's shameful that they let Dudek get half way to the six yard line before Milan's penalty kicks were taken. I understand that's a tough call to make, but after WWC99 you'd think that world-class referees would start making it.

[ref47]

from jim allen's latest column:

GOALKEEPER MOVEMENT AT PENALTY KICK
Your question:
The State of Iowa conducted a referee clinic in Cedar Rapids this year with some top notch referees. I was really surprised by one comment which I asked them to clarify twice. They said that in FIFA matches, a goalie may step off the goal line by up to 3 meters as the kicker approaches the ball to kick it.

I thought you had to have your feet on the line until the ball was struck ?

USSF answer (May 16, 2005):
The game is played and refereed a bit differently at the highest level. Work at that highest level is what this FIFA AR was referring to. FIFA has instructed referees to call and assistant referees working at the highest level to flag only SIGNIFICANT movement called. At this time FIFA defines "significant movement" as 1-2 meters, not 3 meters.

[Ref Flunkie]

from jim allen's latest column:

GOALKEEPER MOVEMENT AT PENALTY KICK
Your question:
The State of Iowa conducted a referee clinic in Cedar Rapids this year with some top notch referees. I was really surprised by one comment which I asked them to clarify twice. They said that in FIFA matches, a goalie may step off the goal line by up to 3 meters as the kicker approaches the ball to kick it.

I thought you had to have your feet on the line until the ball was struck ?

USSF answer (May 16, 2005):
The game is played and refereed a bit differently at the highest level. Work at that highest level is what this FIFA AR was referring to. FIFA has instructed referees to call and assistant referees working at the highest level to flag only SIGNIFICANT movement called. At this time FIFA defines "significant movement" as 1-2 meters, not 3 meters.



Huh?? Isn't 3 meters > 1-2 meters??

[MassachusettsRef]

Since the other thread is closed, I'll post this here. After looking around the UEFA site after the game, I noticed that--contrary to what both Englishref and I thought--it wouldn't have been unprecedented for Collina to get a second UCL final. Dienst (SUI), Horn (HOL), Lo Bello (ITA) and Palotai (HUN) all refereed two finals:

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/AllTimeStatistics/index.html

As for the game itself, I didn't leave the office and find a TV until after the 6th goal (I had planned to take off work to watch the second half, but assumed it wouldn't be worth it). So, the only really controversial call I can comment on is Dudek leaving his line. I personally would have called it in this instance--and did last year in a State Cup Final. I know the talk of "significant movement" might be infuriating to some, but every goalkeeper jumps forward a little, so if you go by the letter of the law you'll be forcing retake after retake after retake. A referee should only intervene if the movement truly affected the outcome of the penalty attempt.

In my opinion, as Dudek about 2.5 metres off his line (he was almost halfway to the top of the goal area) by the time the second penalty was struck, his movement definitely cut down the angle significantly and allowed him to make what ended up being a relatively easy save. However, I don't think, based on the replays I've seen, that Schevchenko's penalty should have been retaken.

[MidwestRef]

from jim allen's latest column:

GOALKEEPER MOVEMENT AT PENALTY KICK
Your question:
The State of Iowa conducted a referee clinic in Cedar Rapids this year with some top notch referees. I was really surprised by one comment which I asked them to clarify twice. They said that in FIFA matches, a goalie may step off the goal line by up to 3 meters as the kicker approaches the ball to kick it.

I thought you had to have your feet on the line until the ball was struck ?

USSF answer (May 16, 2005):
The game is played and refereed a bit differently at the highest level. Work at that highest level is what this FIFA AR was referring to. FIFA has instructed referees to call and assistant referees working at the highest level to flag only SIGNIFICANT movement called. At this time FIFA defines "significant movement" as 1-2 meters, not 3 meters.

A step off the line is not significant movement. What Dudek did on the last PK was certainly significant movement.