Advice on U16/17 boys games

[NHRef]

I did my first U17 boys game this weekend, actually was a U16 team against a U17 team. I have previously done up to U15 boys and U19 girls.

Game ended with a 4-2 score, 1 PK for handling which the defending team all agreed it was a valid call (except the guy who it was on of course)

I expected a physcial game, but was suprised by the level of physical play, not physical soccer, but lots of attitudes that seemed they just wanted to knock each other down. Turns out there was some bad history between some of the players (which I did not know about).

Before the game I told my ARs that I was going to call it very tight and then if things went well I would give them the "loosen it up a bit" signal. Well it never got there. Nothing out of control for the most part, but tensions where rising no matter what I called and I called A LOT of fouls. Pretty much anytime two bodies collided I was calling it.

It didn't help any that 45 seconds in there was a VERY aggressive charge and resulting injury, I called the foul, did not caution the defender, which I probably should have.

I was also less than impressed with the actual quality of the soccer itself. Alot of the contact resulted from horrible traps where the ball rolls off 15 feet and is now a free ball. Alot of what I term "kick and chase", just not much control and passing.

I ended up cautioning two people (my first two cards), one from each team, one on a retaliation push where I didn't see a foul at all. I talked with the player after the push since I had seen tensions rising between these two. Turns out they basically hate each other and one was getting the better of the other.

Second caution probably could have been a SFP red. Player caught up to ball carrier from behind, grab the shirt and tripped him, no indication at all of trying to play the ball. As soon as the whistle blew he turned right to me to receive the card. There was no cry for a red from either side.

I did calm one guy down, he continually was loosing the ball in mid field and whining about things, at one stoppage I called him over and asked "what is happening that I am not seeing?" The wording seemed to calm him down and he told me basically he was being hacked from behind. I told him I would watch. I did see it about 5 minutes later, called for advantage cause the ball went to his teammate for a good shot. On the way up the field in passing I told him "I saw it but didn't call it cause the ball went to your buddy who got off a good shot". He said "thanks" and seemed a bit more calm for the rest of the game.

Two things I reflected on were that both cards had the desired effect, play seemed to settle a bit for a while. Second the game never got out of control, but seemed to teeter on the edge of it for most of the game. I don't see much I could have done different, maybe pulled a few more cards, but there really weren't alot of card worthy things, I could have probably come up with some PI cards just for control, but no patterns stuck out.

I guess what I am asking for is advice on how to call a game like this. I have to do one of these teams again in two weeks and want to know what I can do different.

Is this age group always like this?

[NJ Ref]

Let captains know what to expect in pregame; set the tone early in the match; use man-management (talk to the players letting them know what you want…short and sweet….i.e. “cut the crap guys and let’s play soccer”); use cards to control.

[Claymore]

Is this age group always like this?

Yup, pretty much. Unless you have two teams with exceptional ball skills and tactical awareness, their emotions and energy sometimes get the better of them. This where conditioning comes in, as you need to be in the immediate vicinity (10 yards from dynamic play, ideally) to lend presence and authority to your calls.

[ur_land]

Man management is very important at this level, and it sounds like you did pretty well there. Never underestimate the power of quietly explaining your advantage call or giving a player a needed tounge lashing. Cards are an important tool as well, as you've discovered, but throwing them around like party favors can actually hurt your managment abilities. Then again, some games need lots of cards. YMMV. Just keep working these games, and getting more comfortable at them. Good luck!

[Ref Flunkie]

Is this age group always like this?


In general, yes, but I think it depends on the level of play. Teenage boys that do not play at a high level seem to want to simply bang each other around. Every game at that age I have been involved with always seems to teeter on the edge of going out of control, which is why I think it is the best place to get man-management experience. It sounds like you did a good job by talking to players and showing them that you were concerned about what may be happening behind the play, etc. Some teams, no matter how much you tighten and call every foul, continue to foul and foul some more. Of course, that is when you went to the cautions.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

Let captains know what to expect in pregame; set the tone early in the match; use man-management (talk to the players letting them know what you want…short and sweet….i.e. “cut the crap guys and let’s play soccer”); use cards to control.
I played u16 last year and will play u17 this year. Last year, my team and I played a tournament in Minneapolis and were on the bad end of terrible reffed game. I am a ref also, and this game was possibly the worst thing I have ever seen. The reasons 1)The ref was the same age as us, and knew kids on the minneapolis team we were playing 2)He had a card ratio of 1 yellow to them:1 red and 4 yellows to us. The red was for a player continuing play when he didn't hear the refs whistle. Our team lost our heads and the game. As a ref in U16 U17 use cards to control, but control both teams, don't make one mad or give one more cards.

[Gary V]

As a ref in U16 U17 use cards to control, but control both teams, don't make one mad or give one more cards.
What if only one team is doing all the misconduct?

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

What if only one team is doing all the misconduct?
Good point, but how many times do you see that in a U16 U17 game. With retaliation, tempers, and just plain physical play, I have never reffed or played a game at that level where the misconduct is only one way.

[Wa-Soc-Ref]

What if only one team is doing all the misconduct?
CCSC, it starts with fouls, which lead to misconduct. Sometimes its a finesse team against a bully team and, well you see where that leads. I had this very senario last year on state cup. One team would avoid contact at all costs because it slowed down their play. Guess what the other team did to slow them down, bingo - and it cost them 5 YC and their star player got two of them-see ya. You should have heard them crying at the judicial hearing. These were all for PI, after many verbal warnings and several cards you would think the message would get through. Appreciate the smoother games and learn from the bumpy ones. A wise local state ref has been trying to help me with identifying the players early in the game that you can use to help with game control. And likewise, identifying those that need to be watching from the side. While you can't do that in 40 seconds, you can, as you now understand, deal with the action. I have said it several times over the past month on several posts, bad sportmanship doesn't get better as the game goes on.

[Ref Flunkie]

Good point, but how many times do you see that in a U16 U17 game. With retaliation, tempers, and just plain physical play, I have never reffed or played a game at that level where the misconduct is only one way.


I have seen this all the time. It happens when one team it totally outclassed in a game. As soon as the score hits 3-0, the trailing team gets frustrated and wants to show their "manliness" by fouling hard and doing stuff behind the referee's back. This could even happen at 0-0 if one team FEELS like they are in trouble. Typically, the leading/dominant team will not respond in kind unless the referee does not provide justice by cautioning/sending off the offending players that commit the cheap fouls because they gain nothing by being drawn into that stuff. Boys at this age do not like being dominated.

[BC_Ref]

I have seen this all the time. It happens when one team it totally outclassed in a game. As soon as the score hits 3-0, the trailing team gets frustrated and wants to show their "manliness" by fouling hard and doing stuff behind the referee's back. This could even happen at 0-0 if one team FEELS like they are in trouble. Typically, the leading/dominant team will not respond in kind unless the referee does not provide justice by cautioning/sending off the offending players that commit the cheap fouls because they gain nothing by being drawn into that stuff. Boys at this age do not like being dominated.

I've actually seen the opposite. The losing team taking it pretty well (I was AR on their bench's side of the field) and was one of the happiest (very upbeat, insanely positive - players, parents, and coaches) U16 to U18 boys teams I've run across. Although one reason could be that this was a Div 1 vs Premier team type situation - if the Div 1 team won, all the power to them; if they lost, it was to be expected. So they had little to really "lose" and everything to gain and they played like it.

The winning team was downright surly - 2 dumb yellows which could haunt them later in the cup rounds. One for dissent against me (a close ball in/out call), other for a late tackle. Not sure if they were unhappy with the score (2-0), or just were in a miserable mood. They weren't playing particularly dirty, just seemed to be snarling most of the time.

[Ref Flunkie]

I've actually seen the opposite. The losing team taking it pretty well (I was AR on their bench's side of the field) and was one of the happiest (very upbeat, insanely positive - players, parents, and coaches) U16 to U18 boys teams I've run across. Although one reason could be that this was a Div 1 vs Premier team type situation - if the Div 1 team won, all the power to them; if they lost, it was to be expected. So they had little to really "lose" and everything to gain and they played like it.

The winning team was downright surly - 2 dumb yellows which could haunt them later in the cup rounds. One for dissent against me (a close ball in/out call), other for a late tackle. Not sure if they were unhappy with the score (2-0), or just were in a miserable mood. They weren't playing particularly dirty, just seemed to be snarling most of the time.


Oh I'm not surprised....there are just some teams that are nice and fun, regardless of the outcome. Perhaps we just have grumpy teenagers here in Michigan ;). Just goes to show you that there are plenty of cases where one team commits all kinds of misconducts while the other could just sit there and play soccer with a reasonable amount of civility.

[MassachusettsRef]

I think it's a mistake to try to generalize or stereotype older age divisions at all.

Granted, at the youngest levels, there may be lessons to take away that apply across the board, but by this age (I would argue probably age 12), the discrepancies in skill levels and attitudes amongst teams can be so great that there's really no set "advice" for a particular age group. Just as I've seen U16 teams that act like professional sides (mostly in Super Y or at the regional level or higher), I've seen O40 teams that can act like petulant children.

If you want to make generalizations--which, admittedly, can be helpful sometimes--focus on the skill level and competition strength of the teams involved; once you hit 12-13, age should mostly be an afterthought.

[whitehound]

I think it's a mistake to try to generalize or stereotype older age divisions at all.

Granted, at the youngest levels, there may be lessons to take away that apply across the board, but by this age (I would argue probably age 12), the discrepancies in skill levels and attitudes amongst teams can be so great that there's really no set "advice" for a particular age group. Just as I've seen U16 teams that act like professional sides (mostly in Super Y or at the regional level or higher), I've seen O40 teams that can act like petulant children.

If you want to make generalizations--which, admittedly, can be helpful sometimes--focus on the skill level and competition strength of the teams involved; once you hit 12-13, age should mostly be an afterthought.
I think you are being a bit naive here. There really are differences between the age groups that if ignored can lead you down a dangerous path. I personally dont have a whole lot of problems with U16 because while they dont like to be dominated you absolutely must show them that you are in charge or they will run roughshod over the game if given the opportunity. I know reffs who would rather do a mens Turkey Vs. Greece game then your average U16B game simply because of the extra challenge of having most of the physical abilities of men coupled with a dangerously small portion of the self control.

[MidwestRef]

I just came away from one of these games tonight. HS varsity substate semifinal, one possession team vs. one long ball/physical team. The possession team took a 3-0 lead 20 minutes in, which was the biggest deficit the long ball team had faced all season (they came in with only one loss). This team has a history of roughhousing when they're down, and they lived up to expectations.

When this happens, take an extra second to look behind the play. If you can spot a late heel clip or forearm shiver and call it, that will help the winning team feel like you're looking out for them a little. Make sure your ARs REALLY watch behind the play. I use my pre-game to tell my ARs that when they trail the play, I want them looking behind my back unless the ball is near their touchline. Pay particular attention to persistent infringement committed on the better players of the winning team. Finally, don't forget that the winning team can foul, too.

If you can call the simple fouls early in this situation, then the misconduct will be reduced. However, with U16/U18 boys, it probably can't be totally eliminated.

[kevbrunton]

Personally, the 16 to 19 age is one of my favorite ages for kids. So I really enjoy refereeing matches in this age range - particularly boys. Just to reiterate some things others have already said, my observations of working successfully in this age group include:

1) Staying closer to play - raging hormones in this age group will lead to the little "after the play" stuff that can escalate to bigger problems. Being right there when the foul is called stops this.

2) Talk to them - ALOT - I talk to the guys that I am around during almost every stoppage. Often it's non-soccer stuff, often it's about the play that just happened. Some of them will look at you like you're an idiot for talking to them (it's that age), but others will banter with you. THOSE are the ones that can help you out. When someone needs calmed down or just should sub out for a few minutes, those are the guys you can get the help from.

3) Have fun - a few years back, I started making a conscious effort to smile more when I was on the field. By smiling more, I stayed in a better mental frame of mind. Also, when you are talking to kids in this age group (particularly boys), it works better to say "Hey, come on - that was a cheap shot and we don't want that in this game." with a smile on your face than it does to yell or bark at them.

4) As with all age groups - use cards when you will GET something for it. But particularly with boys of this age, you'll often actually get more respect by talking a kid out of a card than by giving him one. If they cross the line, show the card, but "help" them out first.

[MassachusettsRef]

I think you are being a bit naive here.How am I being naive by taking each individual match and preparing for it based on its own merits?

I know reffs who would rather do a mens Turkey Vs. Greece game then your average U16B gameAnd I made that exact point in my post. Conversely though, I'd rather do a U16 Delco v. Wolves or Jr. Rhinos v. Concorde Silver game than an average weekend amateur match because, on the whole, the clubs at that level have well-disciplined teams that, in many instances, have players with maturity levels vastly superior to many of your average adult players.

Are there exceptions? Of coures, and that's my point. It cuts both ways and I believe there's no set approach to take to one particular age group. I don't understand how that shows naivety.

[NHRef]

Maybe it's more of an age combined with skill aspect then? Like I said, i was suprised at the lack of team control and individual skills. Both teams had a player or two who were solid, but all in all, I was not impressed with the talent level of either team, I coached a U14 co-ed indoor team over the winter that controlled and moved the ball around better than these guys.

I would assume a "more skilled" team would be less physical and a team that moves the ball with better controlled passing would be less apt to be hit physically?

Maybe its the combination of age/hormones and skill level?

[jkritchey]

Personally, the 16 to 19 age is one of my favorite ages for kids. So I really enjoy refereeing matches in this age range - particularly boys. Just to reiterate some things others have already said, my observations of working successfully in this age group include:

1) Staying closer to play - raging hormones in this age group will lead to the little "after the play" stuff that can escalate to bigger problems. Being right there when the foul is called stops this.

2) Talk to them - ALOT - I talk to the guys that I am around during almost every stoppage. Often it's non-soccer stuff, often it's about the play that just happened. Some of them will look at you like you're an idiot for talking to them (it's that age), but others will banter with you. THOSE are the ones that can help you out. When someone needs calmed down or just should sub out for a few minutes, those are the guys you can get the help from.

3) Have fun - a few years back, I started making a conscious effort to smile more when I was on the field. By smiling more, I stayed in a better mental frame of mind. Also, when you are talking to kids in this age group (particularly boys), it works better to say "Hey, come on - that was a cheap shot and we don't want that in this game." with a smile on your face than it does to yell or bark at them.

4) As with all age groups - use cards when you will GET something for it. But particularly with boys of this age, you'll often actually get more respect by talking a kid out of a card than by giving him one. If they cross the line, show the card, but "help" them out first.


Man, this is right on the mark, especially the talking part. It eliminates surprises and lets them know you're in the game. And, as a coach, it keeps players and coaches from guessing. I will have no quarrel with any ref who is in position and explains what he called. Even if I saw something different.

[whitehound]

Man, this is right on the mark, especially the talking part. It eliminates surprises and lets them know you're in the game. And, as a coach, it keeps players and coaches from guessing. I will have no quarrel with any ref who is in position and explains what he called. Even if I saw something different.It will only get you in more trouble to lawyer your calls. The kids at this level know the game and "explaining" your calls only offers up the chance for them to argue with you and tell you how wrong you are. I will talk through an off the ball foul or something innocuous but most stuff you are better off leaving it at the whistle. Most of my talking come for fouls I dont call. or for calls that need an extra word or two. A quick word with the player as you run by AFTER the ball is gone doesnt embarrass them in front of thier buddies and often does the trick.