fouls outside field of play

[dna77054]

I asked this a long time ago, but was unclear on the answer. CAn a foul be commited outside the field of play. If so, where is the free kick given?

Here is a scenario. Ball remains in penalty box, forward and defender both over run ball taking them off the field, just behind the penalty box. While both are still off the field, defender tackles forward, preventing him from retuning to field and shooting. What is the call?

[Hooplehead]

No call. Write it in your match report if there is an incident outside the field of play. It's like when WWF wrestlers go outside the ring. Nothing you can do as a ref. :p

[HoldenMan]

completely wrong.

If a foul occurs outside the FOP then you stop play, caution the fouling player for USB and restart with a drop ball.

Technically you can't foul off the FOP, so instead it becomes a misconduct.

[Wa-Soc-Ref]

I have had this occur along the touch but not around the goal yet. I chose to let play continue (advantageous situation), verbally let the defender know "thats gonna cost ya" (helps you remember the number also), and then come back to the scene of the crime after play has resolved for a booking, you must do this before the next restart. The down side to this is no one will know what the heck your doing, so make sure that you yell it loud enough to get some attention, especially your AR. If there was not an advantage situation then stop play, issue caution to defender and drop ball is the restart.

[MassachusettsRef]

I asked this a long time ago, but was unclear on the answer. CAn a foul be commited outside the field of play. If so, where is the free kick given?

Here is a scenario. Ball remains in penalty box, forward and defender both over run ball taking them off the field, just behind the penalty box. While both are still off the field, defender tackles forward, preventing him from retuning to field and shooting. What is the call?The absolutely technical correct answer is what HoldenMan said. There should be no debate about that.

Now, as to what a referee really should do if this occurs...

The spirit of the game says that a penalty-worthy offense has been committed. If this is close to the field at all, I would give the penalty. Granted, if the bear hug took place 5 yards off the field, there's unfortunately not much you can do, but if it's close at all, you can probably make an argument that the foul began on the field. The offense will get what it wants (and, truly, what it deserves), namely a penalty; and, if the infraction is obvious, the defense won't complain at all (or no more than they normally would on a penalty decision). Sometimes we need to demonstrate a feel for the game and bend the laws a bit, sort of like what Valenzuela did Saturday night. This hypothetical you put forward would be one of those instances.

[refmike]

The technical answer is that a foul cannot occur off the field of play.
The definition of a foul is something "by a player, against an opponent, on the field, while the ball is in play". Anything that does not meet this criteria can be a misconduct but not a foul.

To get around that, I do agree that something that happens just off the field is usually started within the field and that could be called as a foul.

To answer the rest of the original question. For an off-field trip, the ref stops the game for the MISCONDUCT and gives a caution, then restarts with an IFK from where the ball was. Note that if this was an on-field FOUL, the restart would be a DFK from where the foul occured.

[ref47]

the atr calls for a dropped ball for misconduct committed off the field by anyone, not an ifk.

[Garkbit]

the atr calls for a dropped ball for misconduct committed off the field by anyone, not an ifk.

Why? Assuming it's cautionable, you've grounds for an indirect free kick, which seems to me to be the fairest restart.

[brhsoccer14]

Wait, they were taken off the field by momentum? Wouldn't this make them part of play still? I thought since they were taken off the field by momentum, the player would be considered on the field at the place closest to where he is at.

To answer the question. No foul can be called for something that occurs off the field, but I always thought that players that don't intentionally go over the line are still in play.

Variance: An offensive player plays the ball around the defender to the left and the player physically runs around him to the right into touch. The defender obviously hits the player unfairly as he is coming back on to get the ball, but the player has not actually come back onto the FOP. Wouldn't this still be a foul? I'm not sure and have heard different opinions, but could someone of a higher level of refereeing tell me the answer?

[whitehound]

completely wrong.

If a foul occurs outside the FOP then you stop play, caution the fouling player for USB and restart with a drop ball.

Technically you can't foul off the FOP, so instead it becomes a misconduct.
Thank you .........I almost had a heart attack with the first answer.

[whitehound]

Wait, they were taken off the field by momentum? Wouldn't this make them part of play still? I thought since they were taken off the field by momentum, the player would be considered on the field at the place closest to where he is at.

To answer the question. No foul can be called for something that occurs off the field, but I always thought that players that don't intentionally go over the line are still in play.

Variance: An offensive player plays the ball around the defender to the left and the player physically runs around him to the right into touch. The defender obviously hits the player unfairly as he is coming back on to get the ball, but the player has not actually come back onto the FOP. Wouldn't this still be a foul? I'm not sure and have heard different opinions, but could someone of a higher level of refereeing tell me the answer?I think you are confusing another concept of players legally leaving the field of play during the normal course of play shall not be cautioned for leaving the field W/out the reffs permission and dont need to seek the reffs permission to reenter.........doesnt mean they are still on the FOP for foul purposes.

[whitehound]

the atr calls for a dropped ball for misconduct committed off the field by anyone, not an ifk.I didnt think anyone actually read the ATR?!! ;)

[HoldenMan]

Wait, they were taken off the field by momentum? Wouldn't this make them part of play still? I thought since they were taken off the field by momentum, the player would be considered on the field at the place closest to where he is at.

To answer the question. No foul can be called for something that occurs off the field, but I always thought that players that don't intentionally go over the line are still in play.

Variance: An offensive player plays the ball around the defender to the left and the player physically runs around him to the right into touch. The defender obviously hits the player unfairly as he is coming back on to get the ball, but the player has not actually come back onto the FOP. Wouldn't this still be a foul? I'm not sure and have heard different opinions, but could someone of a higher level of refereeing tell me the answer?


That's really only in regards to offside. The reason this doesn't apply to fouls is because with a foul the FK is given where the offence occurred - but you can't have a FK off the FOP

[HoldenMan]

Why? Assuming it's cautionable, you've grounds for an indirect free kick, which seems to me to be the fairest restart.

Yes, but if you're stopping play to award a caution then you restart with an IFK.....from where the offence was committed.

That can't happen here, so a DB is the only other option.

[Gary V]

Variance: An offensive player plays the ball around the defender to the left and the player physically runs around him to the right into touch. The defender obviously hits the player unfairly as he is coming back on to get the ball, but the player has not actually come back onto the FOP. Wouldn't this still be a foul? I'm not sure and have heard different opinions, but could someone of a higher level of refereeing tell me the answer?
I think you're saying the perpetrator is on the field, his victim is off. It it a foul. Yes, the physical location of the strike is off the field. But because it was initiated by someone still on the field, the restart is from the perpetrator's location. It's similar to the restart for thrown objects that go outside the field.

[HoldenMan]

I don't buy into that 'initiation' stuff - foul occurs where the contact is for me.


But how can you be absolutely certain the contact wasn't on the line? (though if i was I'd award a DB, but any doubt and it's on the line)

[brhsoccer14]

I'm still not sure of a correct answer. Someone lay it out for me please before I get picked apart anymore. Actually, I read the whole ATR since I was bored and was looking for things to read about for refereeing.

[GKbenji]

Okay, the original problem: a "foul" committed clearly off the field of play, while the ball is still in play.

Answer:

1. Stop play.
2. Caution the "fouler". (Can' be a foul off the field, so it must be misconduct.)
3. Restart with a drop ball at the location the ball was when play was stopped, subject to special circumstances in Law 8. (Can't be an IFK, because an IFK for a caution is at the location of the offense, which was off the field.)

[ref47]

gary - original post said both were off field of play.

holdenman - regarding initiation. the atr says that if a foul in initiated outside of the pa but continued into the pa, call a pk. the key is continued. it happens on both sides of the pa line. extrapolating to our case, as the foul did not initiate before they left the fop, we go with our correct answer - yc, dropped ball. had it started before leaving the fop - foul, and maybe yc, and dfk/pk as appropriate. we are punishing the more severe action - foul vs foul in pa and misconduct off fop vs foul.

as to absolutely certain where it happened - that's why we have the ar running to the line to assist with that determination.

[HoldenMan]

ok, if that's what the atr says, then stick with that.

However, the atr doesn't govern me, so I follow the LOAF, and there is argument about whether that 'initiation' bit is right or not.