Ideal Centre-Back Pairing?

[splara10]

Amidst the glorious rise of Senderos in recent games, I thought I'd continue my polling activities and try to suss out thoughts on our centre-back pairing for next year. Some thoughts:

1. Phil "Dr. Phil" Senderos looks great - his nerves from early matches seem to have settled and he looks strong in several key areas: decent in the air, solid positioning, strong technique, has generally read the game well. Most obvious weakness at this point is pace, but there are strong arguments that several of the best defenders (ahem, John Terry) lack pace and make up for that in other areas.

2. Kolo seems to have hit a patchy bit of form. He looked decent with Sol early in the season, then fell off with Cygan. He's looked better of late, but how much of that is down to Senderos? My honest belief is that Kolo is a true utility player - great technique, great athlete, could probably fill holes in many areas. I've wondered if he might be a good experiment at right back? He has the pace, and you can tell he wants to play further forward.

3. Sol. I think the biggest concern here has been injury. We've missed Sol for huge chunks of the season, and obviously that has been one driver of our defensive problems. He's probably approaching his peak as a defender though - still competitive athletically, but with all the experience/skill of an older player. He probably has 4 years left at this level, with the next 2 being his absolute best if he can stay healthy.

4. Cygan. Not as horrible as everyone says, but certainly not good either. A decent back up player, but his form can swing from "okay" to absolute disaster too quickly for my liking.

So, thoughts on our best pairing? Do we need an extra centre-back?

[splara10]

One extra note re: Phil.

Remember when Kolo first broke in as a centre back? Everyone said he was the answer, but his performances this season have called that into question. Same could be true of Phil - next season will tell the tale.

[splara10]

One final note, this time re: Cygan.

I left him out as a polling option. I'm assuming this won't offend anyone.

[GriffinGunner]

You assumed correctly...

I'm not certain yet, myself. Your points regarding Sol's injuries are correct, as are uncertainties regarding the future of Mr. Senderos' abilities. I'm more of the mind a choice may not be necessary. Frankly, Sol's injuries have driven home the point that we need depth at this position, and to have variable forms and values to work with should be benficial if AW can use them wisely.

Off the cuff I'd like to see what Sol and Phillip could do as the primary pair. What would be viewed as the slowest pairing doesn't exactly mean they'd be turtles on the pitch. I think Sol's field presence could make up for any lack of pace, and his ability to win balls in the air and push the entire defense out would be very beneficial to the overall Arsenal game.

[yossarian]

The only thing I'm offended by is the comparison of Senderos to Dr. Phil....or as Nice said in another thread....a no talent ass-clown.
:p

[Epikoinos]

I'm glad this topic and poll were posted -- I'll be interested to see the responses. I asked about playing Senderos and Sol together in passing in a few previous posts, but I didn't see any responses.

I agree that Senderos needs to continue to develop and that Sol's injury history is a concern.

But if Sol is healthy, why not give it a shot Wednesday and/or Saturday and see how it goes? Then make a decison and go with what's best for the FA Cup final.

[442]

We had basically the same poll on www.ArsenalAmerica.com, the official supporters club in US/Canada for those not familiar. Out of 363 votes, 255 went for Sol/Senderos.

[splara10]

The only thing I'm offended by is the comparison of Senderos to Dr. Phil....or as Nice said in another thread....a no talent ass-clown.
:p

Sorry -

I was eating breakfast with my buddy, a Liverpool fan, during the match on Sunday morning and he commented that Senderos was looking good recently. I suddenly remembered that one of the Fox Soccer Channel commentators (lame as they are) had called him Big Phil, and "Dr." just leapt to mind.

The actual Dr. Phil IS offensive. And talk about lack of pace.

[Gunners11]

I agree with you GG, I'm not sure yet. Phil has been solid pretty much all year, but it's not like Sol has been crap when he's been in there. I think we need to wait and see with this one, granted Kolo has played better, but it's not like he is playing terrible or costing us points. I think this is a great problem to have, and evetually Phil will be paired with either Sol or Kolo, but I mean how awesome is this, we have three full internationals to pick from for two positions. I don't mind this at all.

[Lanesra]

Phil an Sol, two real center halfs, lets face it Adams and Bould wern't the quickest. But we went a season conceding only 18 goals!

[Claus KJ]

At the moment I think we should go with Toure and one of either Senderos or Campbell. Toure seems like a defender that needs a leader besides him and both Campebell and Senderos are more than happy to assume that role and I think Senderos moreso than Campbell. I'm not sure that a Senderos and Campbell pairing would be the excellent pairing that a lot of people seems to think. First of all they're not excately the paciest pair of defenders around, and this has become more important as the attackers have become quicker than they used to be, and second because I think it would set back Senderos' progress into a natural leader of the defence and potential captain that he seems to have all the required attributes to become.

KJ

[Cannon]

I like the idea of a poll on this but I had trouble picking an answer. None of the options really covers me. I ended up picking Toure and Sol (mainly because of Sol's experience and questions about whether Senderos will be able to keep up his current good form next season and in the CL). I think Toure and either Sol or Senderos will probably be a better pairing than Sol and Senderos or bringing somebody new. I think one CB without pace isn't a problem but two slow CBs together will only work if you change other parts of the team such as holding the FBs back more, forcing a mid to play an almost total dmid role with little involvement up the field, and generally greater commitment to team defense throughout at least the midfield players. That can work well but it doesn't seem like the current Arsenal squad to me and I doubt Wenger will want to move in that direction unless forced to by a long Toure absence.

I have a feeling it won't matter because Sol might not ever have a season like 03/04 again where he barely missed a game through injury. I think we can use Sol as Toure's primary partner next season and still end up getting Senderos plenty of time when Sol misses games due to injuries, suspension, or when Wenger rests him. If Toure also covers for Lauren and perhaps Gilberto (as a more reliable dmid than Flamini or Cesc), then Senderos could partner Sol in some circumstances against teams with less pace in attack.

[michaec]

I went for Senderos and Campbell. For me, I like to have two natural defenders back there. Senderos and Campbell are just that, they get into good starting positions and are big and strong in the air, as well as leaders which you can't have enough of in your team imo. Toure has poor starting positions and poor communication, even on Sunday there were examples of him getting mixed up with Cole and Lehmann on occasion and he's been there long enough that you would have though he'd have sorted this out by now. He's a defender who relies on his speed to get him out of trouble when a bit more guile would not have him in trouble in the first place. I agree with the comments above about Toure being more of a utility player and the example of Adams and Bould - not the quickest pair, but any goals they conceded were hard-earned. I also realise that defending is the responsibility of the team as a whole, but when the first-choice players are around them, I think Senderos and Campbell will serve us better than Toure and one or other of them.

[jwaldman11]

I went for Senderos and Campbell. For me, I like to have two natural defenders back there. Senderos and Campbell are just that, they get into good starting positions and are big and strong in the air, as well as leaders which you can't have enough of in your team imo. Toure has poor starting positions and poor communication, even on Sunday there were examples of him getting mixed up with Cole and Lehmann on occasion and he's been there long enough that you would have though he'd have sorted this out by now. He's a defender who relies on his speed to get him out of trouble when a bit more guile would not have him in trouble in the first place. I agree with the comments above about Toure being more of a utility player and the example of Adams and Bould - not the quickest pair, but any goals they conceded were hard-earned. I also realise that defending is the responsibility of the team as a whole, but when the first-choice players are around them, I think Senderos and Campbell will serve us better than Toure and one or other of them.
I agree with that. As quick as Toure is, he's not as technically sound as the other two. Part of that is just not being a natural defender, but it is a liability. I think positioning is more important than speed at the back, so that should help stabilize the back. There's also one other thing that hasn't been mentioned yet: the combination of Phil and Sol will, in my opinion, make set piece defending much better, which has been an ongoing problem for as long as I can remember. I know that will keep my blood pressure level during games!

[Val1]

At the moment I think we should go with Toure and one of either Senderos or Campbell. Toure seems like a defender that needs a leader besides him and both Campebell and Senderos are more than happy to assume that role and I think Senderos moreso than Campbell. I'm not sure that a Senderos and Campbell pairing would be the excellent pairing that a lot of people seems to think. First of all they're not excately the paciest pair of defenders around, and this has become more important as the attackers have become quicker than they used to be, and second because I think it would set back Senderos' progress into a natural leader of the defence and potential captain that he seems to have all the required attributes to become.

KJ

What he said.

[Val1]

I have a feeling it won't matter because Sol might not ever have a season like 03/04 again where he barely missed a game through injury. I think we can use Sol as Toure's primary partner next season and still end up getting Senderos plenty of time when Sol misses games due to injuries, suspension, or when Wenger rests him. If Toure also covers for Lauren and perhaps Gilberto (as a more reliable dmid than Flamini or Cesc), then Senderos could partner Sol in some circumstances against teams with less pace in attack.

I agree. Sol's recent health history is troubling. So I don't think it'll matter which two of these three start, all should see a lot of playing time. I never hated Cygan, but Senderos is so much better I feel pretty comfortable now.