Top Four Will Qualify For Champions League, Says English FA

[footyfan1]

Top Four Will Qualify For Champions League, Says English FA



LONDON, May 5 (Reuters) - The top four teams in the Premier League at the end of this season will enter next season's Champions League, the Football Association said on Thursday.

"This will not be changed whatever the outcome of Liverpool's Champions League Final in Istanbul on May 25 (against AC Milan)," said the FA in a statement.

"The FA also believes that if Liverpool win in Istanbul and do not finish in the top four in the Premiership, an extra place should be allocated to them in the Champions League next season.

"This is ultimately a matter for (European soccer's governing body) UEFA but the FA will continue to make representations on this issue at the highest level," the FA added.





******My comments: Didn't UEFA already tell them "No"???


When Dortmund won the CL in 1996-1997, but finished 10th in the league that season, I don't recall Germany getting an extra CL spot for the 1997-1998 CL tourney.

Does anyone remember if they did???

And if Germany didn't, what makes England think they are special?

I don't blame the English FA for asking, but if they already told you "No", just get on with it.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter.

AC Milan is going to win the CL anyhow...........

[laudrup]

Madrid was in a similar situation to Dortmund in 2002, and the team that finished 4th (Zaragoza,I think) was forced to play the UEFA Cup instead of CL. UEFA guidelines are very strict in that NO MORE than 4 teams from each country may participate in a given edition of the CL.

Also, if I was the FA, I'd be REALLY careful, because ultimately participation in the CL is up to UEFA sending out invitations to those teams that have placed 1-4 (or whatever, for each country), according to agreements between national associations and UEFA itself. These agreements are also very clear to what would happen in cases like these (Dortmund, Madrid, supposedly Everton). If the FA chooses not to honour these agreements (i.e. send teams 1-3 and Liverpool), UEFA might decide not to honour them either and not invite English teams at all, as it has the power (and has excercised it in the past) to ban clubs from its own competitions.

The only reason I can see for the FA being so stupid is that someone made an empty promise to Everton (for political reasons, or whatever), thinking it would all work out eventually (it was logical to think a few months back that Everton's run would slow down, and/or that Liverpool would run into some big fish and get knocked out of the CL), and now the whole organization is stuck in a big and dirty bog. If push comes to shove, have no doubt on who will win this, and, under threat of ejection from the CL, the FA will eventually abandon Everton's cause, unless the FA has a mysterious lever within UEFA that can allow it to beg their way into a 5th team... which would require re-writing CL statutes... ah, politics...

After this tirade, I must say I can't see Liverpool beating Milan. If I was the FA, I'd keep low until then, see what happens, and, above all, NOT piss UEFA off quite yet.

[MasterShake29]

Virtually every statement from UEFA has supported entering Everton (if they keep 4th) over Liverpool. So you are mistaken. UEFA would probably accept either, but would certainly accept Everton.

[thepremierleague]

UEFA have said its up to the FA to choose who they want. the FA could send the FA Cup winners if they wanted instead of 4th place.

UEFA have also said they will consider letting both play if it happens.

[BocaFan]

The only reason I can see for the FA being so stupid is that someone made an empty promise to Everton (for political reasons, or whatever), thinking it would all work out eventually (it was logical to think a few months back that Everton's run would slow down, and/or that Liverpool would run into some big fish and get knocked out of the CL), and now the whole organization is stuck in a big and dirty bog. If push comes to shove, have no doubt on who will win this, and, under threat of ejection from the CL, the FA will eventually abandon Everton's cause, unless the FA has a mysterious lever within UEFA that can allow it to beg their way into a 5th team... which would require re-writing CL statutes... ah, politics...

Yeah agreed. The FA can dream-on about that 5th team.


After this tirade, I must say I can't see Liverpool beating Milan.

Can't see it?? :confused: Where have you been for the last couple of years? Or even last couple of days for that matter?

[footyfan1]

When Dortmund won the CL in 1996-1997, but finished 10th in the league that season, I don't recall Germany getting an extra CL spot for the 1997-1998 CL tourney.


My mistake. We finished third the season we won the CL. We finished 10th the year after. Old age creeping in!! ;)

[Colm]

Yeah agreed. The FA can dream-on about that 5th team.It was worth a try in my eyes

[laudrup]

Virtually every statement from UEFA has supported entering Everton (if they keep 4th) over Liverpool. So you are mistaken. UEFA would probably accept either, but would certainly accept Everton.

Thing is, if Liverpool wins, convention says they must invite Liverpool specifically, and then they would issue only three invitations for FA teams, which would screw Everton over. If the FA want to defy convention, that's all fine and well, no one says they can't, but it would become a very ugly situation. I'm Spanish, so I really don't care which team gets into the CL, but, on general principle, I think winners should automatically qualify for the next competition, be it CL, the World Cup or whatever. I also think that if it is written that only 4 teams per country can play, then it should stay that way, and not be hastily changed now. It can be changed for the season after next, after Everton's prompting. If England gets a fifth team, however special the reasons (and they ARE special, since clubs in Everton's situation have been screwed in the past), then everyone is going to want another extra spot.

8 years ago or so, in Spain, 2 teams were demoted for financial reasons. The demotion was reversed, but the two teams that stood for promotion as a result refused to go back down. As a result, the Spanish FA had to create a league with 22 teams, which sucked beyond belief. This is what UEFA is risking. If they can't stick to their own rules and regulations, then be sure something like G-14 WILL take their place and create a franchise-style European SuperLeague, which I really wouldn't want to see.

[MasterShake29]

What regulation says Liverpool must be invited back? I'd be interested in a source for all this.

Yes, 5th placed Real Madrid got in over 4th place Real Zaragoza a couple years ago, but that was the Spanish FA's choice. Just as it is the English FA's choice now.

[laudrup]

Can't see it?? :confused: Where have you been for the last couple of years? Or even last couple of days for that matter?

I think this is a matter for another thread, but, seriously, very few teams can beat Milan in a one-match effort. The best I can see for Liverpool is managing a goal-less draw and (despite Dudek) winning a penalty shoot out. And even that would require heroic performances by Hyypia and Carragher, of which you can only get so many a year. All of the Milan squad have at least one major title (be it Scudetto, CL or World Cup), while about 3 Liverpool players can boast about a UEFA Cup and maybe an FA Cup. Make no mistake, in this kind of game experience counts more than class. And even if it didn't...

[Leto]

Also, if I was the FA, I'd be REALLY careful, because ultimately participation in the CL is up to UEFA sending out invitations to those teams that have placed 1-4 (or whatever, for each country), according to agreements between national associations and UEFA itself. These agreements are also very clear to what would happen in cases like these (Dortmund, Madrid, supposedly Everton). If the FA chooses not to honour these agreements (i.e. send teams 1-3 and Liverpool), UEFA might decide not to honour them either and not invite English teams at all, as it has the power (and has excercised it in the past) to ban clubs from its own competitions.

That is absolute nonsense. The English FA has four CL spots to allocate, and they can give them to whoever they want. As far as I know, it doesn't even have to be top four in the league - that's just the obvious way to do it. If they decided they wanted Bolton, Spurs, Charlton and...ooh, Oldham Athletic in the CL for a season then I'm fairly sure they could do that. There's no "agreement with UEFA" for cases like this, and more to the point, UEFA have already stated that it's up to the FA.


Thing is, if Liverpool wins, convention says they must invite Liverpool specifically, and then they would issue only three invitations for FA teams, which would screw Everton over. If the FA want to defy convention, that's all fine and well, no one says they can't, but it would become a very ugly situation.

Convention be damned. The only body Liverpool can legitimately appeal to is UEFA, since they knew the "top 4" rule at the start of the season - which puts the ball back into UEFA's court. It'd be a massive pity if the holders couldn't defend next season (if it came to that), but even more of a shame if Everton don't get their just reward for a great season.

[laudrup]

What regulation says Liverpool must be invited back? I'd be interested in a source for all this.

Yes, 5th placed Real Madrid got in over 4th place Real Zaragoza a couple years ago, but that was the Spanish FA's choice. Just as it is the English FA's choice now.

I said it was convention, and I admitted it could be overridden. If the FA can screw Liverpool over this, then Liverpool can not play politics too well.

[MasterShake29]

I said it was convention, and I admitted it could be overridden. If the FA can screw Liverpool over this, then Liverpool can not play politics too well.

The FA aren't screwing over Liverpool, Liverpool is screwing over Liverpool. They said top 4 at the beginning of the season. Everton knew this and will probably finish 4th. Liverpool knew this and didn't. Them's the breaks.

[laudrup]

Okay, this is my definitive post on the matter

At the request of the national association concerned, the UEFA Champions
League title-holders may be entered for this competition, as an additional
representative of that association, if they have not qualified for the UEFA
Champions League via the top domestic league championship. If, in such a
case, the title-holders come from an association entitled to enter four teams
for the UEFA Champions League, the fourth-placed club in the top domestic
league championship has to be entered for the UEFA Cup.

Taken from http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19071.pdf

This is how it has always been done. If the FA wants to ignore this, then Liverpool simply do not have the influence with the FA make it to the CL. And, regarding Everton's merits, I think winning the Champions League ought to get you a safer spot on the next Champions League than finishing 4th (which is not champion of anything).

In any case, 5 teams CANNOT be entered under current UEFA statutes.

[MasterShake29]

Key word is may. And yes, it's always been done this way. Then again, the situation has only happened one other time under the current format. Not a huge precedent.

[laudrup]

If someone finds me a document that predates day 1 of the premiership season and that clearly states that the FA will NOT invite the CL winner in case it is an English club that doesn't make it to the top four, I'll convert to the Everton cause wholeheartedly.

[BSjanitor]

Regardless of what the FA say now, what would you choose between these scenarios?

-- 3 teams assured in the CL group stage (Liverpool, Chelsea, Ars/ManU) and one in qualifying
or
2 teams (Chelsea, Ars/ManU) in the group stage and risking Everton, with a low UEFA coefficient, drawing, say, Inter Milan, Valencia, Porto or some other strong team in the qualifying round

[MasterShake29]

Regardless of what the FA say now, what would you choose between these scenarios?

-- 3 teams assured in the CL group stage (Liverpool, Chelsea, Ars/ManU) and one in qualifying
or
2 teams (Chelsea, Ars/ManU) in the group stage and risking Everton, with a low UEFA coefficient, drawing, say, Inter Milan, Valencia, Porto or some other strong team in the qualifying round

The latter. Everton earned their shot (well, not quite yet, but they probably will).

[BTFOOM]

The latter. Everton earned their shot (well, not quite yet, but they probably will).

IMHO, Liverpool (assuming they win) have earned the shot more than Everton. WINNING the CL is much more of an accomplishment than finishing 4th in any league. If I were the FA, I'd apologize to Everton and have the holders back. It's awful that the champions of a competition aren't even able to defend their title.

BTW, no way to a 5th team. The CL is too watered down as it is.

[MasterShake29]

It doesn't matter. The FA said at the beginning of the season the Top 4 go, so that's what it should be.

Personally, I'd take top 3 and the FA Cup winner (which wouldn't change anything this season though), but that's another discussion.

Variety is more fun anyway.