When to tell a coach to zip it...

[schmuckatelli]

There's a guy I know who coaches rec league youth soccer. Nice enough guy, knows something about the game, but from the opening whistle of each and every game, he's barking at his players from the sideline, chewing on them, often with really useful stuff like, "Why'd you do that, Johnny?" Turns out I usually have to ref one of two of his games a year. So far, I've managed to restrain myself, but sometimes it's difficult not to turn to his sideline and say, "Would you shut up and let the kids play?" How much of his shtuff do I have to endure? More importantly, how much should the kids he coaches endure?

[ref2coach]

but from the opening whistle of each and every game, he's barking at his players from the sideline, chewing on them, often with really useful stuff like, "Why'd you do that, Johnny?"

TLOG, Law 3 IBD 2, States that a team offical may approach the touchline, give tactical instruction, return to the technical area and behave in a responsible manner.

Your match, your opinion of what is "tactical instruction" and what is "responsible".

Keep some cones in your car. You see this coach, get the cones and create a tactical area for both teams. You let both coaches know thay are expected to stay in tactical area, behave responsibly, and give ONLY "tactical" instruction.

If he does not comply during the match, send him off and include it in your match report.

[GlennAA11]

This is an interesting topic. I refereed a U12 or so girls travel match a few years ago with a similar coach. His comments to his players were not especially instructive and I felt really bad for the kids. I didn't say anything to him but afterwards I wished there was something I could have done or should have done. I think the parents really need to deal with coaches like this, but unfortunately you hear similar comments from the parents' sideline too.

If it's a young age group match, especially at the rec level I think you might have some leeway to be encouraging to the players even if it's just a quiet word of encouragement to "Johnny". You should also definitely contact the league's administrators and let them know about the situation.

[nsa]

r2c - that's "technical area", not tactical area. :)

The bigger problem with your suggestion is that the coaches are not limited to the technical area. They may briefly move up and down the T/L to impart instruction as long as they behave and return promptly to their bench.

Personal opinion here: Some of what I hear from coaches borders on child abuse.

If you ask the abusing-type to stop, s/he'll respond, "That's my kid (player). I have the right." My response, "On this pitch that is my kid. If you fail to understand that then you will be asked to leave."


Besides the abusing-type, we have the micro-manager, aka "Puppet Master". This type provides a constant stream of directions: where to run, where to pass, which foot to use, head it, don't head it, hop, skip, jump, etc. Some don't even notice it and appreciate it when you say something. (I had one coach that I admonished come up to me after the game to say that he had never realised how good his team played.)

This type will distract players more than anything else. If you can get them to pipe down, it may make for a more pleasant afternoon. If not, it's not something for which I'm going to send them off.

[Gary V]

I've had two situations that I've had to correct, both of them more or less successfully.

In a u12 rec game, one person was berating the goalkeeper. "C'mon, kick it over their heads this time!" (Like what do you think he was trying to do on the last 7 punts and goalkicks?) Things like that. I could see the keeper was getting annoyed. So I asked the individual if he was a coach. He answered yes, so I said, "See that line there? It's called the technical area. The coaching staff has to stay behind it." For the rest of the game, he was making snide remarks about having to stay behind the line, could someone go get his water for him because he had to stay behind the line, etc. I didn't care - I could take it, and if he got abusive I'd have sent him to the car. At least the keeper was left in peace. (The way I asked the question - was he a coach - gave me a followup either way. If he had answered no, then I was going to tell him to watch the game in quiet and let the coaches coach the players.)

Another time, a father was getting on his U14 rec daughter. I told the coach to please have the spectator be quiet. "But that's his daughter." "I don't care, she's a player."

[Scarecrow]

One thing you can do is before the game starts take the time to speak with each coach, (especially in a Rec League) and go over some of the rules of conduct that are acceptable and unacceptable. I have found that doing this in a polite and professional manner usually has the effect that I want. For those times that it doesn't, I usually will wait for a break in the game and take a moment to go over and say a quiet word to the coach reminding him/her about what we talked about prior to the game. Most times the coaches just get caught up in what is going on and get a bit carried away.

Very seldom does it escalate to the point where I have to take further action.

For the post where the "Coach" was making remarks about the line a simple ok coach that's enough would work. If he persists then depending on what he says you can send him off to the parking lot or not.

As for the parents, I have had to deal with that from a coaches postion, a referee, and as a Board Member for a soccer org. In each case the parent has been told to cheer for their player, cheer for their team, be a good sport, or don't come out anymore. Bad sportsmanship just should not be tolerated. Set the ground rules right from the start for what is acceptable, and if the parents can't follow them, then everyone is better off without them around.

[refmike]

You may have a problem justifying to a coach that you don't like the way he is talking to his players so I suggest you check the local rules for youth leagues. Here in CalNorth, we play under CYSA (California Youth Soccer Association) rules which are clear that coaching must be positive. When I have told a coach he is violating CYSA rules it has quieted him down because they can pull his coaching license.

[john rod]

two parts here.
rec. players. as a former head coach, on the board. when i trained coaches, i would tell them, that if they had to run up and down the T/L, then they did not do a good job at the week's practice. as an example, i always set in my chair, right at the mid line. i cheer, make subs calls, and enjoy the game. the parents always say 'how can you remain so calm'. it's easy, the players are here to play the game of soccer. not another practice session.
so as a rec. ref., if there is a coach causing a negitive atmosphere, say something on the order of how was practice, or now you know what to practice next week. [besides, we all know the kids can't hear out on the pitch.]

high school. as a ref., you have much more control over the coach. i am just learning how to be a good high school ref. one coach form phoenix was way out of hand. the center didn't do anything. next game i ask amother very experience ref. what to do. i ask him how much do you take, before action. jim had a great and simple answer. he said "how much do you want to take".
i can't tell you how much pressure that took off me. never miss a chance to learn from the old hands.

[NHRef]

I did a U17 boys game last weekend, it was the second time I had done this particular team, first time the game bordered on out of control the entire time, several cards issued, lots of physical fouls. So this time I clamped down VERY hard right from the whistle, game was very well behaved so I loosened up a bit as it went. It all went fine. One issue is the coach, he is constantly yelling for calls, even when my not calling due to advantage was helping his team, for example, a clear handling call I signalled and yelled advantage, resulted in a goal 30 seconds later, he was still yelling about the handling.

Anyway, near the end of the game on a 90 degree and humid day, he was down 4-2 with about 5 minutes left, a CLEAR push dislodged one of his guys from the ball, not card worthy, but a push. anyway the ball went right to one of his strikers on a dead run at the net around mid field, with just the sweeper to beat. I signalled but did not verbalize the advantage (my bad), players went with it, he went ballistic.

After the game I told him why, I told him he was right it was a push, but I played on due to advantage. His answer sort of shocked me, he said something along the lines of "I am the kind of coach that pushes the ref for every call I can hoping to get some to go our way when its close". This took me about 10 seconds to recover from shock and I then told him: "coach, can you do me and all other refs a favor then? Stop it. What you are doing will have two side effects: first off, the parents and players take your action as an indication that maybe the ref stinks and they get on his back as well. Second at least with me, I just tune you out so if I do miss something legit, you won't get my attention. With some refs you will just aggrevate them and they will remove you from the game. There simply is no good side and you help to create a potentially hostile environment for the ref"

He was then the one in shock, mumbled something and walked away.

Hopefully he listened and takes it to heart.

[brhsoccer14]

Hopefully he listened and takes it to heart.

You said he was a coach right?.... No, he won't take it to heart. :)

[XCskinut]

A technique I use (I rarely talk to a coach or respond to comments once the game has started) is at a stoppage in play I'll call over the captain, and say
"go and tell your coach he is being disruptive to the game", it usually works.

I used that today in a U12 girls competitive game, I didn't hear a peep form the coach the rest of the game.

[Jeff from Michigan]

There's a guy I know who coaches rec league youth soccer. Nice enough guy, knows something about the game, but from the opening whistle of each and every game, he's barking at his players from the sideline, chewing on them, often with really useful stuff like, "Why'd you do that, Johnny?" Turns out I usually have to ref one of two of his games a year. So far, I've managed to restrain myself, but sometimes it's difficult not to turn to his sideline and say, "Would you shut up and let the kids play?" How much of his shtuff do I have to endure? More importantly, how much should the kids he coaches endure?

Frankly, I think it's rather presumptuous for a referee to tell a coach how he should coach his players...unless you think it's perfectly all right for him to be telling you how to referee during the game.

If the coach's comments pass into the realm of verbal abuse, then you have every right to intervene to protect the kids. But a coach asking "Why'd you do that?" is hardly abusive. And I find it more useful to be concentrating on what's going on inside the field of play, rather than listening to the coach.

[john rod]

, for example, a clear handling call I signalled and yelled advantage, resulted in a goal 30 seconds later, he was still yelling about the handling.

just a note here. there is no advantage to hand ball. ask any national grade ref. :cool:
-----------------------------
one of my pre-game instructions is "you be the player [to the players], you be the coach, and i will be the ref. you would not want me kicking the ball into the net would you? please don't get the jobs confused.

rod

[Statesman]

john rod - advantage can be applied to any offense of Law 12, of which handling is one of them. Further, the last thing any player or coach wants is a referee telling them what to do before the game even begins. By saying what you wrote, you are automatically insulting the intelligence of both the player and coach in assuming they do not understand their role within the context of the game. The fact you advocate this type of demeaning attitude before the first whistle suggests you may not realize your own role within the game.

[subbuteo]

Tell him zip it if it's unzipped.

[brhsoccer14]

You can get an advantage from them deliberate handling. For instance, the player hits the ball with his arm in an unusual playing position and bounces to an opposing player or a player deliberately handles the ball to his feet, but the other team swipes it away and takes it up the pitch.

I do understand what you said though about who's roles are who's. I wish I could say that sometimes, but I won't because I like to tell myself how ignorant they are.

[Wa-Soc-Ref]

"how much do you want to take".
i can't tell you how much pressure that took off me. Its interesting how much refs will take from vocal coaches. While I am less tolerant than I was a few years ago I also don't do the things I used to that set a poor foundation for good coach management. If I get a chance to shake a hand and talk with the coach before the match I can usually tell if the rope needs to be shortened. Probably the number one things that helps games progress smoother for me is "deal with it sooner than later". Letting boisterous coaches and parents have a negative impact on the field is a detriment to the game. I have only had to send two coaches in 6 years. I do have about two or three visits to the sideline a season to "encourage" better behavior, if they listen - no caution, if I have to come back-they leave. I really appreciate coaches who appreciate refs.

[Footer Phooter]

Besides the abusing-type, we have the micro-manager, aka "Puppet Master". This type provides a constant stream of directions: where to run, where to pass, which foot to use, head it, don't head it, hop, skip, jump, etc. Some don't even notice it and appreciate it when you say something. (I had one coach that I admonished come up to me after the game to say that he had never realised how good his team played.)

This type will distract players more than anything else. If you can get them to pipe down, it may make for a more pleasant afternoon. If not, it's not something for which I'm going to send them off.


I know the type. I had one coach who thought he needed to tell me all about the strategy they were using, which players were playing well, etc. (I was the AR on his side). Clearly his 14 year old female team has learned to tune him out. I just ignored him the entire game, but I guess he had to tell somebody.

[schmuckatelli]

Clearly his 14 year old female team has learned to tune him out. I just ignored him the entire game, but I guess he had to tell somebody.
Some refer to this constant patter as "Verbal wallpaper." After a while, it just blends into the background.