Nationality-based positional perceptions?

[quattrosystem]

A tongue twister of a title if there every was one...

but I was wondering, what are your perceptions (stereotypical or not)regarding player positions depending on nationality, as of 2005?

These may be prototypical or idealistic roles based on the way a country approaches their football. Factor in changes in view over time, of course.

e.g.
Brasilian - prolific strikers, skilled attackers/playmakers
Argentinean - playmakers
Portuguese - wingers
German - solid, consistent players

I find it hard to identify anything with England and that probably has something to do with the Beckham-centric world of the past eight years or so

[fútbolfan2003]

Italy = quality defenders and goalies

[Excape Goat]

Brasilian - prolific strikers, skilled attackers/playmakers


defenders who can attack as good as forwards.

[Dark Savante]

A tongue twister of a title if there every was one...

but I was wondering, what are your perceptions (stereotypical or not)regarding player positions depending on nationality, as of 2005?

These may be prototypical or idealistic roles based on the way a country approaches their football. Factor in changes in view over time, of course.

e.g.
Brasilian - prolific strikers, skilled attackers/playmakers
Argentinean - playmakers
Portuguese - wingers
German - solid, consistent players

I find it hard to identify anything with England and that probably has something to do with the Beckham-centric world of the past eight years or so

I alwas meant to make this thread. Distraction always got the better of me :) great idea, hope it gets the response it deserves.

Funnily enough if you were to associate anything with England it would be the best CB core in the world right now. Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry, Carrgher, King is superior to anything anyone else can offer up as a core.

Traditionally imo, it goes:

Germany - fantastic Sweepers and central midfielders. Ballack being the latest in a huge line. Also traditionally fantastic crossers of the ball from wide positions on either side of the pitch.

Brazil - OM and strikers. Wide FB's also. I've always liked Brazil's DM's but, they never really get thought of for that.

Italy - Defensive units (the whole backline &keeper) and the OM/supp stri spot

Holland - More for overall passing and flexible movement then any specfic position imo. You can't name 5 elite players in any position for Holland for example but rather, an overall brilliance to their teams.

I think the same goes for Argentina and France.

---

In the present I don't think much has changed. I think it's hard to change such things without a production line of talent being successful in that position over time through different eras. For you to associate positions with a particular country the guys who perform have to leave a lasting impression on you. I don't think many countries have the resources or the fortune to mass produce talent in a particular position.

I think it has to be cultral -

Italians pride themselves on great defending. Young kids actually want to grow up to be the next Mldini or Baresi.

Kids from Germany have supreme role models in the Sweeper and CM spots to try and emulate.

Brazilian culture always aims to make beautiful teams with beautiful plays. An aspiring attacker will never be anything but encouraged in Brazil, his moves will be applauded.

I think it is ditto for Argentina but the curse of Maradona (every emerging playmaker is the next Maradona) seems to be too much for their playmakers to handle. In recent years there's been a few touted as that, but they don't materiliase as the real deal on the other side. Not enough for Argentina to be deemed home of playmakers ona world stage any, imo.

Someone Dutch will have to educate me on this one, but I don't think every young kid in Holland wants to be the next Cruyff or anyone specific? They pick a favourite player fand take it from there?

In England there hasn't been an overwhelming drive for a specific position, rather an emulation of a player who takes a tournameny by storm. i.e Moore, Keegan, Barnes, Gascoigne, Owen, Beckham (more as an icon) I'm sure there are kids running around pretending to be Rooney these days. There has never been a huge focus on one position that I can recall.

Hopefully Zidane has left an impression on the youth of France and we'll see a few emerging talents in the near future.

[Excape Goat]

Germany - fantastic Sweepers and central midfielders. Ballack being the latest in a huge line. Also traditionally fantastic crossers of the ball from wide positions on either side of the pitch.


Germany used to produce a numbers of strikers who are good with headers and great in the air. Gerd Muller, Fischer, Klinsmann, Bierhoff, Hrubesch, Dieter Muller and Hoeness are some of the names I can come up with. However, the current generation is not so good. Klose at one point looked pretty good. Germans in general are big. So they got a size advantage when looking for strikers to dominate in air.

I also though the Irish are damn good in defensive midfielders, but I can only come up with McGrath and Keane.

[jrod69]

I'd say the Spanish play consists of a lot of fast wingers

[Sempre]

Funnily enough if you were to associate anything with England it would be the best CB core in the world right now. Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry, Carrgher, King is superior to anything anyone else can offer up as a core.

This isn't quite right, Savante. The traditional idea is that England
produce great goal-keepers (think Gordon Banks) and players who
can cross the ball (Beckham) and head the ball (Platt, etc.) better
than players from most other countries.

Both Italy (Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Nesta, Bonera) and Argentina
(Heinze, Ayala, Samuel, and Zanetti) have a better backline than
England and that is par for the course. English defenders are more
technically limited than Italian defenders (a result of the fact that
Italy's best athletes are chosen as defenders) . . . I think that is
by and large the perception and it is generally true.

[Bertje]

Someone Dutch will have to educate me on this one, but I don't think every young kid in Holland wants to be the next Cruyff or anyone specific? They pick a favourite player fand take it from there?

In Holland it is basicly the guys that like Ajax and the rest.

The Ajax kids ofcourse have players like Cruijff, van Basten, Bergkamp, Rijkaard etc to look up to. But most of the kids pick their favorite. A lot of people like Davids quite a lot, so he would be mostly the pick for midfielders. Attackers would like players like Cruijff, van Basten, Bergkamp, Rep, Keizer, Overmars etc. And defenders would like a Frank de Boer, Rijkaard, Blind, Krol etc. The kids that play at Ajax also pick the Ajax way of thinking up rather fast. Basicly the biggest talents play there so they get arogant.

The other kids like more hard working-no tricks players. So that would be a Ronald Koeman, Cocu, Kieft etc.

Basicly it's the Ajax kids who want to see beautiful football and the rest just wants results.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

-English work hard
-Portugese dive :D
-Italians defend
-Germans counter

[RichardL]

In England there hasn't been an overwhelming drive for a specific position, rather an emulation of a player who takes a tournameny by storm. i.e Moore, Keegan, Barnes, Gascoigne, Owen, Beckham (more as an icon) I'm sure there are kids running around pretending to be Rooney these days. There has never been a huge focus on one position that I can recall..
when I was playing as a kid absolutely everyone wanted to be a striker, even the goalkeepers who'd often join the attack. Only kids who weren't very good would be defenders. Indeed, there's a quote by a manager a few decades back who declared "no player of talent should play in the back four".

I don't think kids copy players who've done well in a world cup. They are far more likely to want to be like their club team's hero(es) as support for the club game is so strong here.

I think the Beckham "iconic" thing is rather overplayed. If kids here are emulating Beckham, it is down to his play, not because he looks good on a poster.


Of course in days gone by, with England's style of play so heavily based on wingers crossing balls in, wingers and centre-forwards were they types of player kids would admire. These days? How many proper English wingers are there? How many traditional centre-forwards? Alan Shearer may have to be boxed-up and put in a museum so we don't forget what one looks like.

[minorthreat]

when I was playing as a kid absolutely everyone wanted to be a striker, even the goalkeepers who'd often join the attack. Only kids who weren't very good would be defenders. Indeed, there's a quote by a manager a few decades back who declared "no player of talent should play in the back four".I wonder, then, what he thought of Bobby Moore.

[nicephoras]

Both Italy (Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Nesta, Bonera) and Argentina
(Heinze, Ayala, Samuel, and Zanetti) have a better backline than
England and that is par for the course.

Samuel? That's a joke, right? At any rate, given the depth of England's defense, the above statement is no longer true. Especially given the fact that both Marco Materazzi and Cristian Panucci have started competitive games for Italy within the past several years.

[Sempre]

Samuel? That's a joke, right? At any rate, given the depth of England's defense, the above statement is no longer true. Especially given the fact that both Marco Materazzi and Cristian Panucci have started competitive games for Italy within the past several years.

Not a joke; I rate the Argentine defenders above the English
defenders, even if Samuel has had a bad season.

Don't know what you mean by depth. The two outstanding
English defenders are Ferdinand, who can bring the ball forward,
and Terry, who is aggressive and hard to beat but technically
limited. Otherwise we're talking about Neville, aren't we? And
Cole, Campbell, and Ledley King? Hardly unbeatable. England
conceded 6 goals at Euro 2004 and only played 4 games so I
don't see the fuss over their defense. Perhaps you watched N.
Ireland play them and were impressed.

I grant that Materazzi and Panucci are awful defenders, but
Panucci is out of the NT and Materazzi will only play if Nesta
is hurt, I believe. But if you want depth, try this: Cannavaro,
Nesta, Zambrotta, Chiellini, Zaccardo, Barzagli, and Bonera.
And Chiellini would start on almost any other team . . .

[The Potter]

Not a joke; I rate the Argentine defenders above the English
defenders, even if Samuel has had a bad season.

Don't know what you mean by depth. The two outstanding
English defenders are Ferdinand, who can bring the ball forward,
and Terry, who is aggressive and hard to beat but technically
limited. Otherwise we're talking about Neville, aren't we? And
Cole, Campbell, and Ledley King? Hardly unbeatable. England
conceded 6 goals at Euro 2004 and only played 4 games so I
don't see the fuss over their defense. Perhaps you watched N.
Ireland play them and were impressed.

I grant that Materazzi and Panucci are awful defenders, but
Panucci is out of the NT and Materazzi will only play if Nesta
is hurt, I believe. But if you want depth, try this: Cannavaro,
Nesta, Zambrotta, Chiellini, Zaccardo, Barzagli, and Bonera.
And Chiellini would start on almost any other team . . .

English CB's are

1.Ferdinand
2.Terry
3.Campbell
4.Woodgate
5.King
6.Charrager

that's currently what were best that.

[Sempre]

English CB's are

1.Ferdinand
2.Terry
3.Campbell
4.Woodgate
5.King
6.Charrager

that's currently what were best that.

Do you really put Carragher at number 6?

Anyway--I grant England have a strong defense now, but this
thread is asking about the general perception of a soccer nation's
best qualites. And for England that's not defense but heading
and crossing.

[The Potter]

Do you really put Carragher at number 6?

I reckon Sven does



Anyway--I grant England have a strong defense now, but this
thread is asking about the general perception of a soccer nation's
best qualites. And for England that's not defense but heading
and crossing.


Your probally right but times change look that our GK's decline :(

[Sempre]

Yes, times are changing for England. Robinson is your
best now but he's not quite first-rate.

I think someone on this thread made a joke, and a very
good one, about Shearer needing to be put in a museum
after he retires.

[The Potter]

Yes, times are changing for England. Robinson is your
best now but he's not quite first-rate.

I think someone on this thread made a joke, and a very
good one, about Shearer needing to be put in a museum
after he retires.


Well England certinaly won't have another player like him for along time the likes of Owen and Defoe are complete polar opposites.

[Excape Goat]

Your probally right but times change look that our GK's decline :(

I did have a percetion that England/UK produced great keepers.... but the big decline started long before the current generation. The generations after Shilton were so and so. It is funny that Brazil was known for their sh#t keepers, but now they have a few good ones.

[DC_Gunner]

The US was gaining a reputation as the next great keeper producing nation, espescially after we rode friedel's back to the quaterfinals during WC02, until Howard started playing like @$$. I must must say, it was nice being known for something besides simply not being good.

[DC_Gunner]

also, on the topic of England, I think that the two sides are arguing different things, the proponents of englad aren't speaking of the defence as a whole, but only of the CBs. And I think that there is a good case for English CBs at the moment, Juve might agree, considering Carragher, who was instrumental in dumping them out of the C-League can't hope of breaking into the first 11 right now. No one is saying that the Neville Brothers are world class.