Championship Manager Thread

[profiled]

Originally posted by Lucid


?

Anyways....


Exactly.

[Lucid]

While I wouldn't like to see it in real life, it would be cool to have pro/rel option in the US in CM. While I could really care less about other leagues in the world in real life, I do like to play them because you can start off with a tiny little team and move your way up the ranks.

[Lucid]

Originally posted by profiled


Exactly.

Haha.. ok, sure. :rolleyes:

[eneste]

Not to sound like an SI shill or anything but CM has been the best software value that I've ever purchased. For the amount of enjoyment and time played, $40 or whatever is nothing. I'm not saying this from a moral high ground because I'm just as bad if not worse than most of you at downloading software. The guys who make Championship Manager is like a group of 20 guys cranking this out not some big software house and they deserve our support.

Following that logic I guess it's about time to fork over BS some cash... :)

[Marc Vaughan]

eneste - The cheques in the post ;)

Seriously, though - thanks for the kind words, they're much appreciated :D

[Elwood]

Originally posted by Lucid
While I wouldn't like to see it in real life, it would be cool to have pro/rel option in the US in CM. While I could really care less about other leagues in the world in real life, I do like to play them because you can start off with a tiny little team and move your way up the ranks.

This is the exact reason I've only played 2 seasons in MLS, though it would be my #1 choice if there was pro/rel.

All other games I've started I've been in Europe or Brazil, choosing a team at the lowest level all but once. My first CM 01/02 game was as Chicago, then moved to England and Stoke. Since then, I've tried a couple times to get the US into a pro/rel system. Had mild success moving everyone to Belgium (all 50 US teams), but during the summer of 2002 the game stopped during some CONCACAF competition. Obviously I did something wrong in the swapping of teams (likely nation setting or something). Haven't tried again since. Well, I have, only on a small scale. Moved Indiana to the English Conference and am struggling in Div 3 now in my 3rd (? not sure, been about a week since I've played) season.

[profiled]

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
eneste - The cheques in the post ;)

Seriously, though - thanks for the kind words, they're much appreciated :D

Hopefully it's 21 employees, aye marc?

[Elwood]

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
Where we cannot obtain the required licences to release the game we do not do so, simple as that.

Kind of a curiousity more than anything on this point. CM 00/01 is the only version of CM that I've gotten illegally. Since it wasn't available in the US, I'm wondering how *illegal* it was for me to have a copy I didn't pay for. I know it was NOT legal, but if a company is not licsenced to sell a game here, what legal grounds could a company use to prosecute (if so desired) people that have an illegal copy of a product that could not legally be sold in their country? Does that make any sense?

Also curious if US IPs should be blocked for download purchase. I don't know the first thing about copyright and international laws and how they affect the internet, but to this layman it would appear to be not entirely within the intents of the laws to offer this.

Also, is this why AmazonUK doesn't ship to the US? How can independant companies ship the game here (I've come across a couple, though I've lost the bookmarks)?

Basically, please buy the game


I can promise you that if it's available in the US I will. If it is not, and I have to resort to ordering on the net, I cannot 100% say I will. I might not get the next one, depending on reviews and such. Of course if it's available at a local store, I'll buy it day 1 that it's out (no waiting for reviews unless I must).

And just to clarify, my copy of 01/02 is legit, and my illegal copy of 00/01 is long gone

[Lucid]

Originally posted by Elwood


Also curious if US IPs should be blocked for download purchase. I don't know the first thing about copyright and international laws and how they affect the internet, but to this layman it would appear to be not entirely within the intents of the laws to offer this.

Exactly my point. It is the right thing to do, to pay for licensing fees in each country (Marc backed that up by saying they pay in every country that they can), just as it's the right thing to do to pay for the game. But sometimes the right thing to do isn't always possible, and when one is desperate enough, they'll resort to bending the rules a bit. In SI's case, it's using a loophole in the law to sell it in the states, in my case it's just getting on Kazaa and downloading it.

Anyways... let's get back to CM discussion.

[Zenit]

Originally posted by Lucid
While I wouldn't like to see it in real life, it would be cool to have pro/rel option in the US in CM. While I could really care less about other leagues in the world in real life, I do like to play them because you can start off with a tiny little team and move your way up the ranks.

Sorry pal....I think you've pretty much lost the right to any legitimate requests for features in CM4 after your embarrasing comments ("I can't pay for it, or just don't want to pay for it, but it's cool, so I'll steal it, and act indignant when someone calls me on it") in this thread.

BTW, http://www.cdmag.com/Home/ (Vermont) is where I have ordered the last two versions of CM and they are very good (yes, elwood, 00/01 was available there, but to be fair it did take a fair amount of searching to find it). They were one of the few places in the US that had a decent stock of the game, and both times I ordered CM they shipped same day and it arrived within three days via Priority Mail. Also, http://www.gamer.uk.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=preorder259 is a pre-order link (overseas shipping, of course) -- they claim a release date of Xmas 2002. I have sent an e-mail to cdmag.com asking them if they plan on offering a pre-release order option for CM4, becuase I think they did offer this for 01/02.

In the interests of full disclosure -- I will admit to obtaining the no cd crack for 01/02, for the sole purpose of ending those infuriating days of being bored at work and discovering I had forgotten the CD in the disk drive at home. No one has copied either of my versions -- I did pass along 00/01 to a fellow BS poster here last year when the new one arrived, and he purchased the 01/02 version a couple months later.

[LiverpoolFanatic]

Enough of the pirating vs buying...

I have a question that pertains to the playing of the game.

I got York into the dreaded Inter-toto Cup. THe problem was, despite my varying training in the close season, when the matches came round in July the players were all knackered. THe opponenets players were always much fresher than mine. I still managed to win, but I was worried about injuries.

I'm a bit annoyed. I bought some unknown Argintinian att mid for like 100k. He turns out brilliant, so I offer him a new contract (twice) and keep upping the min fee release claause that he requested. Bam, Liverpool comes and pays the 10 million pounds for him and my 19 superstar in the making is gone. :(

[Lucid]

Originally posted by Zenit


Sorry pal....I think you've pretty much lost the right to any legitimate requests for features in CM4 after your embarrasing comments ("I can't pay for it, or just don't want to pay for it, but it's cool, so I'll steal it, and act indignant when someone calls me on it") in this thread.


Haha... you obviously didn't read any of my posts then did you. If you are going to accuse me of saying things remotly similar to those quotes, back it up with a quote from me. The only one that is true is me saying "I can't pay for it", the others are just fabrications of your little imagination.

[Zenit]

Originally posted by LiverpoolFanatic
I'm a bit annoyed. I bought some unknown Argintinian att mid for like 100k. He turns out brilliant, so I offer him a new contract (twice) and keep upping the min fee release claause that he requested. Bam, Liverpool comes and pays the 10 million pounds for him and my 19 superstar in the making is gone. :(

In the 00/01 version, I got burned a few times with exactly the same thing. Even with a player who rates strong with a "hidden" attribute such as loyalty seem to fall to pieces whenever a team like Liverpool, Man U, Real Madrid, etc. come calling. I've had players who were seemingly happy who I've tried to renew at 6 months time refuse to sign/dicuss a contract and then leave -- only to sign with a big reputation club who threw me a lowball deal 2 years previous. With a player like your Argentinian, I do the same thing you do, maybe offer them a bit more $$$ and bonus thatn they are looking for and try to jack the minimum release clause as much as I can to ease the pain when Juventus comes and raids Cambridge United.

$10 MM pounds for a 19 yr old ...sucks to lose a superstar in the making, but not a bad payoff.

[Zenit]

Originally posted by Lucid


Haha... you obviously didn't read any of my posts then did you. If you are going to accuse me of saying things remotly similar to those quotes, back it up with a quote from me. The only one that is true is me saying "I can't pay for it", the others are just fabrications of your little imagination.

Yeah, sure it is. Damn those scoundrels at SI for making such an addictive product! They certainly must have to share some of the blame, for making a product that you just can't live without, that you covet so much you can somehow manufacture the moral justification to steal it. Such evil intentions hidden within such a benign yet entertaining product -- you've probably got grounds for a civil suit here, I suppose.

[profiled]

If you had the first clue about software, or anything in life really, no matter how much you protect something, someone will spend the time and energy to crack it.

People crack 16,000$ copies of Maya, people crack 10,000$ copies of 3ds max, people crack 10 shareware programs, people crack $40.00 games.

Which obviously you don't, maybe I'd expect you to understand about software pirating.

[eneste]

Originally posted by profiled


Hopefully it's 21 employees, aye marc?

Please do Marc! I wouldn't mind returning to work in London!

Well just make sure that MLS is a fun league and that the US players are accurate (including transfer fee's, US players should be a bargain!) and I'll let my commission slide this time. ;)

[profiled]

Originally posted by eneste


Please do Marc! I wouldn't mind returning to work in London!

Well just make sure that MLS is a fun league and that the US players are accurate (including transfer fee's, US players should be a bargain!) and I'll let my commission slide this time. ;)

Hey, hey, quit trying to steal my thunder =).

[Zenit]

Originally posted by Lucid
you obviously didn't read any of my posts then did you. If you are going to accuse me of saying things remotly similar to those quotes, back it up with a quote from me.

Well, I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just stating what I feel seems to be your position on this issue.

But, OK, let's review. Maybe I got it all wrong. Here are a few comments:

Give me money and I will buy it.

Now why didn’t the marketing guys at SI think of that one first?

Such lax security features on the game is also kind of asking for it…I believe it was 99/00 that the demo available from their website could be easily changed to a full version…Sure I feel guilty about not buying this copy, and that will lead me to buy it someday….And on the other hand, if you don't want people to copy your game, make it tougher to copy, and CM is pretty easy…I'm sure with each release it gets harder and harder as it should with the development of new technology. And I know it's wrong, see....

Yeah, those dirty corporate buggers at SI are getting what they deserve, aren't they?

It is really fortunate for you (and me, and everyone else) that the 20 or so guys on the CM team decided it was more important to put out the best soccer management game known to man, rather than spend the development $$$ on the best encryption known to the gaming world (which someone would break anyway).

So at the same time SI might be mad at us for copying the game, they don't have a whole lot of room to complain because they are they are getting away with not paying hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in licensing fees worldwide. You might say "Well they don't have enough money to pay all those fees", well I don't have enough money to give them right now too…But you still sell the game on-line to that area. It's just merely a loophole. I don't have a problem with it, but if Profiled is going to harp on people for having an illegal copy of the game, he should realize that the users aren't the only ones bending the rules a bit…But sometimes the right thing to do isn't always possible, and when one is desperate enough, they'll resort to bending the rules a bit. In SI's case, it's using a loophole in the law to sell it in the states, in my case it's just getting on Kazaa and downloading it.

First of all, using a “loophole in the law” doesn’t make it illegal. Your pirating of software is illegal, however. 2nd, I don’t think SI is “desperate” to get into the US market with the game; it might be nice, but I don’t think they’ll cease operation if they can’t. You, however, do appear to be desperate.

If you download the game, promise to buy a copy of it, which I have when there is actually money in my pocket

You’ve been playing with pirated software since the 99/00 version, which you found so easy to break down the demo & convert it to a full version….$40 bucks too much to spend once in that time frame? That’s less than 4 cases of crappy beer – or are you one of those numerous college guys that don’t drink beer?

So, in summation, the highlights of your thoughts on this matter seem to be:

1. I like the game. I like the game a lot.
2. I've been playing the game for at least three years
3. I can't afford to buy the game.
4. I have not been able to afford to buy the game for the last three years.
5. In spite of my inability to buy the game, I wish to continue to play the game; therefore I will take the game without paying for it.
6. I know it is wrong.
7. Even though I know it is wrong, I will continue to do it, at least until I feel I can afford it.
8. If SI really felt that strongly about their software being pirated, they wouldn't make it so easy for people like me to get around and/or solve their security measures.
9. SI is using a "loophole" in the law to sell their product on-line to USA customers, thereby avoiding large licensing fees. They have no right to complain or be upset about me pirating their software.
10. The use of such a "loophole", although being perfectly legal, in my opinion is somewhat similar to me pirating the software.
11. profiled is a "sheep" for harping on me & should get off his high horse, & Zenit has "a little imagination."

Hopefully, I didn't miss anything.

Which one of these 11 didn't you mean to say?

Lucid, I personally don't care what you do. I'm not quite sure why you seem to want be so public about your internet habits, but that is your business. However, I do care about this game, for the only reason is that is is one of 2 games that I keep on buying, revision after revision, year after year (Civilization being the other). So I do hope that they continue to prosper, continue to stay in business, and continue to further develop the CM series. And I hope that others who waste as much time with CM as I do realize that $40 every year or so to play the best computer sports game on the planet is one hell of a deal, and a small price to pay to support the developers.

[Lucid]

Originally posted by profiled
If you had the first clue about software, or anything in life really, no matter how much you protect something, someone will spend the time and energy to crack it.

People crack 16,000$ copies of Maya, people crack 10,000$ copies of 3ds max, people crack 10 shareware programs, people crack $40.00 games.

Which obviously you don't, maybe I'd expect you to understand about software pirating.

Well considering I first downloaded a copy of 3DS Max R2, then I liked it so much and I used it with school work that I did the right thing and bought a $3,000 copy of it, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that I'll fork over the money to SI when I have it given my previous history.

Originally posted by Zenit

Yeah, those dirty corporate buggers at SI are getting what they deserve, aren't they?
Well considering they put out a demo that could easily be changed to the full version, they didn't exactly get what they deserved, but better forsight would have prevented 99/00 from being spread as much as it was.

Originally posted by Zenit

It is really fortunate for you (and me, and everyone else) that the 20 or so guys on the CM team decided it was more important to put out the best soccer management game known to man, rather than spend the development $$$ on the best encryption known to the gaming world (which someone would break anyway).
Well if it wasn't as easy then maybe they could save a few hundred copies from being spread right off the bat. So it's not a permanent solution, but the first week or two when a game is out I would assume is the time when it is pirated the most, you delay that time then you'll get those who would have initially downloaded it to buy it because it's not availeble for download. Makes sense right?

Originally posted by Zenit

First of all, using a “loophole in the law” doesn’t make it illegal. Your pirating of software is illegal, however. 2nd, I don’t think SI is “desperate” to get into the US market with the game; it might be nice, but I don’t think they’ll cease operation if they can’t. You, however, do appear to be desperate.
Yeah, cause it's just that fun of a game. I clearified before that what I did was illegal and what they are doing is not illegal, but just because it's not illegal does not make it right.

Originally posted by Zenit
You’ve been playing with pirated software since the 99/00 version, which you found so easy to break down the demo & convert it to a full version….$40 bucks too much to spend once in that time frame? That’s less than 4 cases of crappy beer – or are you one of those numerous college guys that don’t drink beer?
Way to stick to the facts here. I played 99/00 (might have been 98/99) for about a week, but was quickly bored with it because there was no MLS. I didn't touch CM again until a week ago.

Originally posted by Zenit
1. I like the game. I like the game a lot.
True
Originally posted by Zenit
2. I've been playing the game for at least three years
False
Originally posted by Zenit
3. I can't afford to buy the game.
True
Originally posted by Zenit
4. I have not been able to afford to buy the game for the last three years.
False. Reason? Cause I didn't want to buy it then.
Originally posted by Zenit
5. In spite of my inability to buy the game, I wish to continue to play the game; therefore I will take the game without paying for it.
True, until I have the money and buy it. Heck, maybe it will be on my christmas list if I don't have CM4 by that point. I find it funny that you can't understand my unwillingness to scrounge up enough money right now when I'd have to pay the same amount in 3 months when I will want CM4.
Originally posted by Zenit
6. I know it is wrong.
True.
Originally posted by Zenit
7. Even though I know it is wrong, I will continue to do it, at least until I feel I can afford it.
True.
Originally posted by Zenit
8. If SI really felt that strongly about their software being pirated, they wouldn't make it so easy for people like me to get around and/or solve their security measures.
True.
Originally posted by Zenit
9. SI is using a "loophole" in the law to sell their product on-line to USA customers, thereby avoiding large licensing fees. They have no right to complain or be upset about me pirating their software.
True and False. They avoiding paying more money than I am, although mine is illegal and theirs isn't, but legality doesn't make things more or less morally right or wrong. It could just be my opinion but morally they are doing more wrong than me simply because they are avoiding paying more money than I am avoiding.
Originally posted by Zenit
10. The use of such a "loophole", although being perfectly legal, in my opinion is somewhat similar to me pirating the software.
No, it's not similiar to pirating software, cause it has nothing to do with pirating software. People sell DVD's and other stuff that should not be sold in this country, but do so because of the internet. Selling it on the internet would be illegal, but it cannot be because the internet is too hard to police and that is the sole reason why it is not illegal. So now you tell me which is worse, avoiding $0 or thousands of dollars?
Originally posted by Zenit
11. profiled is a "sheep" for harping on me & should get off his high horse, & Zenit has "a little imagination."
Well considering he fails to realize that I am not the only one doing anything wrong here, yes. Oh... and yes to part B, some of those assumptions were not accurate, including failing to realize the reason why I called Profiled a sheep. He has two bits of info in his head, first being me doing something wrong, and second telling us that CM has had some licensing problems but still sell it in those countries through the internet but he failed to associate that with doing something wrong while he was complaining to me about doing something wrong.

Originally posted by Zenit
Which one of these 11 didn't you mean to say?

2, 4, 9, and 10.


Originally posted by Zenit
Lucid, I personally don't care what you do. I'm not quite sure why you seem to want be so public about your internet habits, but that is your business. However, I do care about this game, for the only reason is that is is one of 2 games that I keep on buying, revision after revision, year after year (Civilization being the other). So I do hope that they continue to prosper, continue to stay in business, and continue to further develop the CM series. And I hope that others who waste as much time with CM as I do realize that $40 every year or so to play the best computer sports game on the planet is one hell of a deal, and a small price to pay to support the developers.
Agreed. So be patient and wait for me to buy it or give me money to go buy it. But first on my list when I have the extra cash is to get a premium subscription to BS since I enjoy this place more than playing CM.

[Lucid]

Oh, and by the way, for those of you who are so appauled by a few of us having a copy of CM, look on your computer and tell me if you have any MP3's, or in your CD collection and tell me if you have any copied CD's, or in your movie collection if you have any copied movies, or if you have ever shot off fireworks not on the 4th of July in most major cities, or if you have ever ripped a tag off a mattress.

Chill out, my god.