What now for Rangers?

[Burkies Ginger Mop]

Still a bit gutted but this article gave me a laugh!

http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/37952.html

I wonder how many comings and goings there will be in the summer. I also wonder how much longer McLeish will be there!

[TimBhoy]

Still a bit gutted but this article gave me a laugh!

http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/37952.html

I wonder how many comings and goings there will be in the summer. I also wonder how much longer McLeish will be there!


Better reading than the usual end of the world gloom and doom for whoever loses an OF game.....still do not think big marv should have played.

[Scottish_Morton]

Quality article that. I think Rangers are, on paper, strong enough in the midfield, with the exception of a left-mid. If Lovenkrands could remember how to play they'd have the answer. They need strengthened at the back, I think they are quite weak at full-back. The thing about Prso, Novo and Thompson is that they are all good players (well, Thompson at a push...) but they aren't as good as Bellamy, Sutton or Hartson. With a bit of luck Rangers will win the league next season. Celtic are aging fast and will need replacements for Lennon and Sutton soon, with more following soon after.

Personally I think Rangers and Celtic should admit their limitations and produce some god home-grown talent. Well, Ideally I'd like them to ******** off to the Premiership but that's never gonna happen.

[TimBhoy]

With a bit of luck Rangers will win the league next season.

Why?



Personally I think Rangers and Celtic should admit their limitations and produce some god home-grown talent. Well, Ideally I'd like them to ******** off to the Premiership but that's never gonna happen.

Celtic have started to do that with their copy of the Dutch model, coupled with looking abroad ( We have a couple of excellent young Icelandic players who should be breaking through in the next few years, along with home grown talent)

Ps We are Scottish and we will continue to play in Scotland, this talk of the premiership distracts us from looking for solution to the current problems.

[Scottish_Morton]

Why?





Celtic have started to do that with their copy of the Dutch model, coupled with looking abroad ( We have a couple of excellent young Icelandic players who should be breaking through in the next few years, along with home grown talent)

Ps We are Scottish and we will continue to play in Scotland, this talk of the premiership distracts us from looking for solution to the current problems.

All I meant is that there isn't too much between the sides, both have had good and bad spells this season so if Rangers have some luck on their side and don't drop so many points to Dundee Utd they could win the league i.e. the team who loses the least silly points will win the league. They have both won 3 of the OF games this season.

I keep getting told Celtic are an Irish club who play in Scotland, I take it you don't agree? I would like Rangers and Celtic to leave the SPL because other teams just can't compete. The OF are always going to hold the monopoly on fans in Scotland, for whatever reason. So it would be best for all involved if they move to a league where they are with clubs their own size.

[TimBhoy]

All I meant is that there isn't too much between the sides, both have had good and bad spells this season so if Rangers have some luck on their side and don't drop so many points to Dundee Utd they could win the league i.e. the team who loses the least silly points will win the league. They have both won 3 of the OF games this season.

I'd rather have Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and the Embra two challenging for the title, never really bothered me getting beat the previous two SPL games with the Dons or Hearts (admitedly slightly harder to take) Big difference between wanting to see your team win every game and actually knowing your team will win every game. We need non OF to be winning things..........we just need to get used to it, oh and make it happen.



I keep getting told Celtic are an Irish club who play in Scotland, I take it you don't agree? I would like Rangers and Celtic to leave the SPL because other teams just can't compete. The OF are always going to hold the monopoly on fans in Scotland, for whatever reason. So it would be best for all involved if they move to a league where they are with clubs their own size.


I'm going to try and keep out of discussions as soon as they get "heated" Normally non OF fans ask questions like this then it disintegrates into typical OF bigots.

Celtic ARE a Scottish club, we have a proud Irish & Catholic history that has not impinged on us playing fair with people's of all creeds and colours. The situation in the area where the majority of our original fans came from has (IMO) led us to "support" what the majority of our fellow citizens (And me )would call terrorists, however their view is valid, again in my opinion (Different discussion)

I'm a non Irish, non Catholic Scot who loves Scotland AND the UK but will pay homage to people who gave me Celtic, and fully endore our current links to that ol country.

Scotland used to be among the best in Europe....Dundee, Utd, Aberdeen, Hibs....the only question should be how do we get back to that.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Scotland used to be among the best in Europe....Dundee, Utd, Aberdeen, Hibs....the only question should be how do we get back to that.

The Old Firm need to wake up and stop being so greedy. They have destroyed the Scottish game. However, this is a topic for another thread.

[CdnBhoy67 redded]

The Old Firm need to wake up and stop being so greedy. They have destroyed the Scottish game. However, this is a topic for another thread.

How is the OF being greedy? Celtic and Rangers owe it to their fans and
stockholders to put the best team possible on the field and win the SPL title,
which in turn gets them into the CL. Celtic and Rangers should not have to
worry about the other SPL clubs, thats way they have boards and supporters. Do i get tired of the SPL being a two horse race, sure but thats
not our problem, it's up to the other SPL sides to compete.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

It's a bit hard to compete when you usually veto anything that doesn't suit you, take the lions share of money, steal fans and then waste any good talent that you feel is a threat to you. Sad really.

[Scottish_Morton]

How is the OF being greedy? Celtic and Rangers owe it to their fans and
stockholders to put the best team possible on the field and win the SPL title,
which in turn gets them into the CL. Celtic and Rangers should not have to
worry about the other SPL clubs, thats way they have boards and supporters. Do i get tired of the SPL being a two horse race, sure but thats
not our problem, it's up to the other SPL sides to compete.

Momo Sylla, Ulrik Laursen, David Fernandez, Stephen Pearson etc

Dariusz Adamczuk, Gavin Rae, Paul Ritchie, Russell Latapy etc

What's the point in transfers like these?

[DeeTee]

It's a bit hard to compete when you usually veto anything that doesn't suit you, take the lions share of money, steal fans and then waste any good talent that you feel is a threat to you. Sad really.

How do you steal fans? Fans of the other teams need to stop trying to blame the big bad Old Firm for everything. Those clubs need to take responsibility for their own situations.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

A typical Old Firm response...

[canadiansoccerrules redded]

It's a bit hard to compete when you usually veto anything that doesn't suit you, take the lions share of money, steal fans and then waste any good talent that you feel is a threat to you. Sad really.

We don't steal fans, people have the right to support any
club they want in a free society and don't have to explain
their reasons for doing so. Celtic and Rangers bring in the Lions share of the tv money and deserve a bigger cut.
Really how many people would watch an non OF games on setanta in the UK and worldwide? Not too many, i can tell
you.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I like how you totally ignore the things you have no answer to. :rolleyes:

[DeeTee]

Pot, kettle. :rolleyes:

[Teso Dos Bichos]

You are fully aware that the steal fans comment is in reference to the Old Firm taking fans away from their local clubs. Even more shocking is that most of these "fans" don't even bother to attend football matches at all.

[DeeTee]

Is this like kidnapping?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Yes

[GersMan]

There's plenty of blame to go around.

Celtic and Rangers have both been negligent in the youth development department, in large part because of each other. The supporter backlash from not winning the SPL, or more accurately, from having to endure the other side winning it, is so great that clubs have chosen time after time to go for the immediate fix rather than properly blood a young player. Someone mentioned Celtic emulating the Dutch model. I'm not familiar with what they've done but I have seen a couple of good young players come up through the ranks for them of late so maybe it's changing.

For Rangers the training facility built by Murray at Advocaat's insistence was designed in large part with youth in mind. First Jan Derks and now George Adams are doing some very good work and you are starting to see good young players make it into the first team, like Mo Ross and Stephen Hughes earlier and more recently Chris Burke and Hamed Namouchi.

The problem is still that, when push comes to shove, the teams don't want to risk these guys over any extended length of time, then they sit on the bench or in the stand for a year or two and naturally start wanting away.

All of this despite that the fact that there is no question the only way these teams will be a force in Europe is with a squad of mostly Scots players. Advocaat proved once and for all an Old Firm team cannot buy its way into the top level of Europe.

The other teams in Scotland are also to blame because they too, are addicted to the crack pipe of the boosted attendance brought by matches with the Old Firm. When they expanded the SPL a few years back they bypassed the obvious format of 16 teams with a double round robin to the most obtuse system they could find, just to preserve teh chance for a 3rd and possible 4th match with Old Firm teams.

Now as to the topic of the thread - McLeish is definitely benefitting from the team being on an austerity kick in order to get rid of its debt. I think that's the main reason he is staying for another year. I like him, he seems like a good guy, but it's just the nature of the business that if he doesn't get results than he'll have to go.

I'd really like to see the team give an extended runout to some of the young prospects rather than go sign a bunch of guys, because I think that always proves to be a short-term solution. But then I've been saying that for years and with very little change in the situation.

[TimBhoy]

There's plenty of blame to go around.

Celtic and Rangers have both been negligent in the youth development department, in large part because of each other. The supporter backlash from not winning the SPL, or more accurately, from having to endure the other side winning it, is so great that clubs have chosen time after time to go for the immediate fix rather than properly blood a young player. Someone mentioned Celtic emulating the Dutch model. I'm not familiar with what they've done but I have seen a couple of good young players come up through the ranks for them of late so maybe it's changing..


Celtic won the youth cup final last night against a good St Mirren team, our under 19 are looking very good at the moment and we had some important players away on international duty.

This is all down to the changes in our youth set up started about 5 years ago were we copied the Dutch system of getting kids early and concentrating on learning the game and acquiring skill in small group games, rather than the competitive 45 a-side games our kids are used to (ok, I exaggerate slightly)

This is leading to us producing some amazing talent (Aiden McGeady for one) coming through, added to that we are looking at youth from countries not normally scoured (We have two real prospects from Iceland in our under 19's) I'm hopeful that this avenue with lead to more success in Europe.

I agree that us trying to compete with Rangers for the SPL has meant that we have bought in generally players that are at the end of their careers, or are not that good in the great scheme of things. Can you see the really great players coming to play in the Scottish league? Also in the process we have partly put the SPL into the state it's in now.




The other teams in Scotland are also to blame because they too, are addicted to the crack pipe of the boosted attendance brought by matches with the Old Firm. When they expanded the SPL a few years back they bypassed the obvious format of 16 teams with a double round robin to the most obtuse system they could find, just to preserve teh chance for a 3rd and possible 4th match with Old Firm teams..

While agreeing that the above seems to be the case in the behaviour of the other SPL teams, I remember seeing a report that suggested that if the OF left Scottish football, crowds would actually increase. I would have thought that this would have given the other teams the balls to start dictating how Scottish football should be run, after all the OF are only two teams. We keep hearing how the rest hate the OF and that the OF need the rest of the SPL, the SPL does not need the old firm. I'd like to see some action from them.



Now as to the topic of the thread - McLeish is definitely benefitting from the team being on an austerity kick in order to get rid of its debt. I think that's the main reason he is staying for another year. I like him, he seems like a good guy, but it's just the nature of the business that if he doesn't get results than he'll have to go.

I'd really like to see the team give an extended runout to some of the young prospects rather than go sign a bunch of guys, because I think that always proves to be a short-term solution. But then I've been saying that for years and with very little change in the situation.


I feel sorry for McLeish, my opinion is Murray went for someone who would not rock the boat when he put restrictions on spending to get their debt under control, if eck does well all in good, if not then blame him and get rid of. I expect Eck to be given another season.