Spurs v DC United on FSW - 10/17

[RichardL]

Originally posted by andylovesoccer
and it seems you find it just as easy to read the Spurs players minds as Dave does to type with that large chip on his shoulder.... I'm not saying that they took the game as seriously as they would a league match, but do you think they wanted to lose to the last place MLS team in front of their home fans? I think there was a desire to win in both teams, but in the end they both realized that the result really didn't mean anything.

I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to lose at home. Had the goal come earlier they might have put up a bit of a fight, but by then Spurs players on the field would have been more interested in playing to the gallery than the actual sporting contest. Just what was the team Spurs had on the field at that point? How many were over 35?

I'd be surprised if the Spurs players knew much at all about DC. They probably wouldn't even have known that they finished last, or even cared.

If you wish to claim that this result shows that MLS teams aren't rubbish then I'd agree. If you wish to claim that this result proves that MLS teams are not far off premiership standard then I'd request slightly more substantial proof than this.

[sinner78]

Originally posted by RichardL




If you wish to claim that this result shows that MLS teams aren't rubbish then I'd agree. If you wish to claim that this result proves that MLS teams are not far off premiership standard then I'd request slightly more substantial proof than this.

what else could you expect from these naive fools??

I remember when the metrostars beat Bayern munich in a friendly and some of the plums who support metrostars tried to use this game to prove that the metrostars could beat any team in the world...

they'll clutch at any straw to prove that they're "world-beaters" ...LOL
even a win in a charity exhibition match..

[CHICO13]

Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk



they'll clutch at any straw to prove that they're "world-beaters" ...LOL
even a win in a charity exhibition match..
No one here claims our team as world beater. The MetroStar fans are dillusional to begin with. All we are saying is that our league has grown in stature and competitiveness. We're not the shite most euros claim us to be.

[andylovesoccer]

I think most of the DC fans on these boards are happy with the victory, but realize that the result is meaningless. I don't think anyone has claimed DC has any right to any titles regarding their ability to beat other European teams. Both of you (Richard and Ronald) are assuming a lot of things that are just making you look stupid.

The Spurs team throughout the match consisted of more than a couple of first team players. And towards the end of the match they subbed in players that were actually a lot younger, like Blondel and Rebrov. Since you didn't see the game, Richard, it is really silly of you to make all these guesses about their attitude, though I would agree with you on some degree that neither team put much creedence in the result, although I am sure DC wanted to win a little bit more than the Spurs squad did. The Spurs squad consisted of Keller, Marney (youth team), Doherty, Perry, Bunjevcevic, Poyet, Freund, Gascoigne, Ginola, Klinsmann, Sheringham at the start of the game. And here are the subs and starters:

Tottenham: Kasey Keller (Lars Hirschfeld-46’); Dean Marney (Paul Allen-76’), Gary Doherty (Colin Calderwood-46’) (Stephen Kelly-76’), Chris Perry (Ronnie Henry-46’), Goran Bunjevcevic (Stephen Carr-46’); Gustavo Poyet (Chris Waddle-46’), Steffen Freund (Stephen Clemence-46’), Paul Gascoigne (Jonathan Blondell-49), David Ginola (Matthew Etherington-57’); Juergen Klinsmann (Clive Allen-64’), Teddy Sheringham (Sergei Rebrov-49).

So the game never consisted of a bunch of over 35's as you suggest. There were always several young players on the pitch, and at the point the goal was scored, I think there were only four players over 35.

So basically, what I am trying to say is, nobody is trying to make any claims on behalf of DC United because of the result of this game, and you should check at least a few of your facts before you start making excuses and laying out reasoning concerning a game you didn't watch or have the time to read about.

[RichardL]

All I'm saying is that in my time I've seen a lot of testimonial matches and in every one the result has had absolutely zero importance. It's just meant to be a fun night out. Any resemblence to a proper match is usually accidental. I've no axe to grind and I actually find it quite funny that you rather pissed on their bonfire as I'm sure they thought they'd easily get a few past you lot. Having been to an MLS match at Chicago and an A League game at Rochester I'm well aware that the standard of the American game is not rubbish. I suppose when you lack regular competition against opposition from 'respected' leagues a degree of trying to measure youself is inevitable. I just hope there were some London based DC fans at the game who'll be able to give their spurs supporting friends stick for ages to come.

[superdave]

Originally posted by RichardL
Thanks for correcting me as you clearly fully understood what I was trying to say.
You're welcome. In the future, please realize that there's a great big beautiful world beyond your teeny, tiny, one-modest-US-state sized island.

[superdave]

Originally posted by RichardL
If you wish to claim that this result shows that MLS teams aren't rubbish then I'd agree.
This match proved that DCU is competent, in terms of tactics and technique. I already knew that, and apparently you already knew that. I'll bet a pretty large portion of Spurs fans and players didn't know that.

I acknowledge that DCU took the game more seriously than Spurs did. I was more taking issue with your assertion that an English team would be more lax than, say, Leverkusen or Bayern Munich were when they came to the States. If Spurs come to the US next year for a pre-season tour, I'll bet they're just as serious (or un-serious, depending on how you look at it) as those German teams.

[superdave]

Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk
I wish England's starting keeper was as good as the average MLS starter. Then maybe we could have beaten Macedonia at home. I'm very jealous.
Fixed your post.

[RichardL]

Originally posted by superdave


I acknowledge that DCU took the game more seriously than Spurs did. I was more taking issue with your assertion that an English team would be more lax than, say, Leverkusen or Bayern Munich were when they came to the States. If Spurs come to the US next year for a pre-season tour, I'll bet they're just as serious (or un-serious, depending on how you look at it) as those German teams.

Well I've never seen a testimonial involving two teams from outside England so I couldn't comment. I said that English teams normally are pathetic pre-season, which is true, and if they do post-season tours the they often have to raise their game to be regarded as pathetic. If you choose to think I'm implying that comparibly all other countries play friendlies as if their lives depend on the outcome than that's up to you. The level of tactical consideration in a testimonial would be far lower than even in a normal friendly match, although that might be countered by the fact that in a testimonial the players might look like they are enjoying the occasion. I've watched my team play pre-season in (continental) Europe twice. This summer I saw them play a friendly against bundesliga 2 side Reutlingen in a small village near Ulm. Despite the fact that around 50 fans had made an expensive trip over to watch them play, none of the players seemed to think it was worth putting in any more than the absolute minimum effort for the duration of the match. Nice scenery and nice beer though.

[USRufnex]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sinner_ronald_monk


what else could you expect from these naive fools??


... many of these "naive fools" are just kids who simply don't know enough about friendlies/exhibition games... excuse me, I hear the "clue phone" ringing... OH, IT'S FOR YOU...


I remember when the metrostars beat Bayern munich in a friendly and some of the plums who support metrostars tried to use this game to prove that the metrostars could beat any team in the world...


...and I remember a bunch of partying bundesliga players from Hamburg not taking Columbus and Chicago serious enough and getting their butts kicked a couple of years back. Of course it's a friendly. But, geez... for MLS teams like last place DC United it's also a chance to garner some respect...
[/b]

they'll clutch at any straw to prove that they're "world-beaters" ...LOL
even a win in a charity exhibition match.. [/B]

First, who are "they" and second... who the HELL are YOU?... some sort of sociologist?... funny that nobody who's posted on this board thinks the Metrostars are "world-beaters." The Mutts have gone through enough players/coaches over the last 7 years to staff a league... I get sick of seeing real American soccer fans (not many of us right now) accused of clutching "at any straw"...

...don't understand posts that claim DC is used to playing in large stadiums before 2 to 3,000 people... avg. attendance at MLS games is 15,800... though I'm sure it was a wonderful experience for many of the DC players to play in a knowledgable and tradition-rich environment... it's been a dream of young American players to play in those kinds of environs for at least a couple of decades now...

...LOL on you and your arrogant stereotypes of Americans, dumbass... a good performance at an exhibition is nice... I'll take our league players' WC performance against Germany, Mexico, and Portugal to demonstrate that MLS teams are capable of being highly competitive... we are coming along quite nicely, thank you very much... no further help from aging superstars (Mattheus, Hernandez, Gazza) necessary...

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by Cantona
what a bunch of muppets..
all of you....

and crowd attendance... even the DC United
coach stated they were not used to a
knowledgeable football fan atmosphere and
were not used to playing in front of this type
of crowd..

Cantona---
"eurosnob extrodinaire"
Hey, Cantona,

Bite me.

I wasn't going to flog this dead horse (although that does tenderize in prep for English over-cooking) until I noticed the reference to 'knowledgeable football fan atmosphere'.

Just to get the crowd thing out of the way, a number of these United players, aside from various world experiences, have played in front of a stadium full of 57,000 knowlegeable fans right here in Washington, D.C.

Just what is your problem? If you assume that the US doesn't have knowledgeable fans, then your definition of yourself as a 'eurosnob extrodinaire' is accurate. Kind of the opposite of 'ugly American', isn't it?

Now I will give you one thing--we're still developing our atmosphere. But it's not yet what it should be due to the lack of soccer (sorry...football) knowledge. It's just that our supporters groups are still educating the fans about chants and songs. We need more visiting examples, such as the 1000 or so Leeds supporters who came with their team to RFK a few years ago and showed us the rhyming qualities of the 'f' word.

[ne plus ultra]

Originally posted by RichardL


Thanks for correcting me as you clearly fully understood what I was trying to say.
Tell me, is it easy to type whilst balancing that large chip on your shoulder or does it fall off now and then?

I didn't see the game and as it was on Spurs TV (I'd never even heard of Spurs TV) so I can't tell how committed the DC team were, but I'd risk at guessing they felt it was a good chance to pit themselves against premiership stars, old & new, and were looking foward to it as a contest. The spurs players, all 137 of them so it seems, would have regarded it as a chance to showboat a bit in a fun kick-about.
DC treated it like every away team treats a friendly. They went out and got drunk the night before in London, then came and played around a bit. The Germans tried this with the Fire two years ago and got beat 6-1. Meanwhile, the youngsters on Spurs, playing early in the season, were thinking this was the chance to nail down a spot. And we still beat you.

Perhaps the large chips the English carry around on THEIR shoulders was too much of a handicap for them in this game. Maybe you'll have a decent national team someday. Till then, it must be awfully tiresome to make new excuses every time someone beats you in your national game.

[Cantona]

seahawkdad... or whatever the hell you call
yourself...

before you go flaming YOU get your facts
straight...

the "knowledgeable fan atmostphere" was a
direct quote from Ray Hudson the DC United
coach at halftime....

and why wouldnt it be? it is Englands national
sport... there are far more games televised in
britain than in the US ...the passion for football
cant even be described... is it here in the US?..
sparcely.... you cant compare... and yes i think
the average european fan would be more
knowledgeable about the sport than an American..
as would an American that was a fan of baseball
be more knowledgeable than a European...

*************

so go round up the kiddies and head back to
your minivan, soccerdad...

*************

again... another muppet...

Cantona---

[ne plus ultra]

Originally posted by Cantona
seahawkdad... or whatever the hell you call
yourself...

before you go flaming YOU get your facts
straight...

the "knowledgeable fan atmostphere" was a
direct quote from Ray Hudson the DC United
coach at halftime....

and why wouldnt it be? it is Englands national
sport... there are far more games televised in
britain than in the US ...the passion for football
cant even be described... is it here in the US?..
sparcely.... you cant compare... and yes i think
the average european fan would be more
knowledgeable about the sport than an American..
as would an American that was a fan of baseball
be more knowledgeable than a European...

*************

so go round up the kiddies and head back to
your minivan, soccerdad...

*************

again... another muppet...

Cantona---
Cantona,

if you were a macedonian, I might concede your point.

the english have been proving they know little about soccer and less about the U.S. for 36 years now.

run along.

[RichardL]

Originally posted by ne plus ultra


the english have been proving they know little about soccer and less about the U.S. for 36 years now.



With getting into a world rivalries style debate (god knows I've been in enough of them lately) if the English knew as much about the US as the average American knows about England then we'd know your language, be able to name about 4 cities and about 20 people and that would be about it. Know nothing about soccer for 36 years? Well maybe you'd like to give me a brief run-down on the glorious history of soccer in the US during that period.

ps
Originally posted by RichardL
but it's still a good result

Originally posted by RichardL
Good result though

Originally posted by RichardL
I've no axe to grind and I actually find it quite funny that you rather pissed on their bonfire

Originally posted by RichardL
I just hope there were some London based DC fans at the game who'll be able to give their spurs supporting friends stick for ages to come

Originally posted by RichardL
I'm well aware that the standard of the American game is not rubbish


If you'd bothered to read what I was saying rather than instantly labelling me an anti-American heretic who must be burned at the stake, you might have realised that I was pleased that you won.

[delo_pata]

Originally posted by RichardL

about it. Know nothing about soccer for 36 years? Well maybe you'd like to give me a brief run-down on the glorious history of soccer in the US during that period.



The history of footy is actually rather more extensive and rich than most folks abroad realize. Of course, by proportion it didn't enjoy the same popularity here, but in terms of total numbers, we've always had the equivalent of a small nation of followers. My home town had a professional team as far back as the early part of this century. Here's a good start for information:

http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/

[ignatz]

The announcer was clearly in error in his reference to stadium sizes, and Ray Hudson was clearly right in his references to the atmosphere.

Yesterday's New England-LA game was played before more than 61K. True, it was the final, but the crowd was about 25K larger than could fit into White Hart Lane for a final or anything else. That being said, the crowd -- a typical American sports crowd -- seemed much quieter on TV than the smaller crowd at the Tottenham-DC friendly.

Most American sports crowds don't make noise until something happens. Probably closer to what I imagine is an English cricket crowd (just guessing; never saw one) than an English soccer crowd, or a soccer crowd from just about any place else except North America.

Odd, isn't it -- that we loud, blaring, brash Americans tend to have quieter sports crowds?

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by ignatz
Odd, isn't it -- that we loud, blaring, brash Americans tend to have quieter sports crowds?

My guess (and I say this as an American who will attend at least games/matches/meets in at least 6 different sports this year) is that most of them are too busy eating to make much noise.

[Anthony]

Gee, a fun little freindly and every one gets their Matthews in an uproar!

Look, it was meant to be a silly little game. United clearly looked like they were enjoying themselves (except Olsen, who looked like he was trying to get an EPL contrat). The Spurs old boys were having fun (and a few looked like they were breathing a little hard) and the young guys were trying to prove they belonged on the first team.

Hey, it was supposed to be fun. I do not believe it proves United would win the EPL. I also do not think they should have approached the game like it was MLS Cup 2003. They should have gone there, played in an historic stadium before passionate fans, and enjoyed a trip to London (but not eat a steak and kidney pie!). They did just that, put on a good show, and beat a Spurs XI.

[Detective40oz]

Originally posted by ignatz
The announcer was clearly in error in his reference to stadium sizes, and Ray Hudson was clearly right in his references to the atmosphere.

Yesterday's New England-LA game was played before more than 61K. True, it was the final, but the crowd was about 25K larger than could fit into White Hart Lane for a final or anything else. That being said, the crowd -- a typical American sports crowd -- seemed much quieter on TV than the smaller crowd at the Tottenham-DC friendly.

Most American sports crowds don't make noise until something happens. Probably closer to what I imagine is an English cricket crowd (just guessing; never saw one) than an English soccer crowd, or a soccer crowd from just about any place else except North America.

Odd, isn't it -- that we loud, blaring, brash Americans tend to have quieter sports crowds?

It's also called look at the roof at White hart lane designed to keep in atmosphere...and lack of roof at Gilette stadium. NBA games and NHL games get crazy loud..why? because of a roof that keeps sound in. Once we have soccer stadiums with roofs and acoustics that help the atmosphere this will change.