Naturalized mercenaries

[Goodfella]

Stopping the naturalized citizen trend

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=331673&cc=5739


The time has come for FIFA to examine an increasing trend that threatens to undermine the integrity of the international game -- the use of naturalized citizens. Unless the eligibility standards are changed, coaches will soon be forced to devote practice time to teaching players the words to their country's national anthem.

Has the day arrived when players pick their national teams in the same way they would choose a club - on the basis of playing time? While some argue Brazil missed its chance with Deco, should there really be a statute of limitations for a country to utilize one of its players? No coach should feel the need to call-up a player, strictly to protect against him blossoming into a star and being snatched up by a different country.

[Goodfella]

Just curious as to what you lot think, personally i think it's okay for players to do it as long as it's not fot footballing reasons but something has to be done or it'll be just like the clubs.

[Ombak]

Just curious as to what you lot think, personally i think it's okay for players to do it as long as it's not fot footballing reasons but something has to be done or it'll be just like the clubs.First things first - you cannot cut and paste articles and post them here. Quote a brief part and provide a link.

As for the beginning - what is the problem with Kuranyi???

In general I agree that if the player chose to seek citizenship exclusively because they did not see themselves as having a chance for their home team, or for playing in the World Cup, of course, it's a bad idea. But since it's impossible to regulate why some people might want to get citizenship FIFA has to draw a line somewhere, and they can't be so strict as to say "you can only play for your coutnry of birth" for example. As a result, cases like Deco will occur. I personally don't have much of a problem with them though.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

While colonial powers such as France and Holland routinely field players of African-descent, at the very least, the players bear some connection to those nations. For example Patrick Vieira of France was born in Senegal but moved to France at the age of eight, and identifies much more readily with the French culture than he does with Senegal. A distinction must also be drawn between cases when a player leaves his country of origin at an early age, spending most of his formative years in his adopted country, and cases when a player is transferred to a foreign club and decides to become a citizen solely for soccer purposes.

Bollocks. There is no difference between Vieira or any other player named. You should play for the country you are born in. If they do not want you and you happen to have grown up elsewhere, then a case could possibly be made, but I still wouldn't like it. :mad:

[Ombak]

Bollocks. There is no difference between Vieira or any other player named. You should play for the country you are born in. If they do not want you and you happen to have grown up elsewhere, then a case could possibly be made, but I still wouldn't like it. :mad:Ouch... even if you grew up somewhere else? That's absolute nonsense. A birth certificate is nothing but a piece of paper and means very little to many people.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

If people do not care about their country of origin, then they are scum in my eyes. :mad:

Sorry, I just find it completely unacceptable.

[Ombak]

If people do not care about their country of origin, then they are scum in my eyes. :mad:Seriously? You're that close-minded? What if a kid grew up till age 10 in one place then from that age was somewhere else? Geeze.

Not to mention the person could still care about the country where they were born, but might identify even more with an adopted country where they grew up. That's perfectly normal.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I'm sick of it Ombak. I lived in Germany for a while as a child and while I still identify with that, there is no way it comes before Scotland. Being Scottish is probably the reason for this anger, as it becomes very difficult to identify with the NT when it gets filled with sub-standard English reserves. :(

[Ombak]

I'm sick of it Ombak. I lived in Germany for a while as a child and while I still identify with that, there is no way it comes before Scotland. Being Scottish is probably the reason for this anger, as it becomes very difficult to identify with the NT when it gets filled with sub-standard English reserves. :(So your individual case is capable of giving you insight into all cases where a child might grow up in a different country? Nonsense.

The fact that your Scottish is irrelevant. You're either admitting you agree with me deep down but refuse to say it because you are afraid it will sound like you endorse this "problem" on the Scottish national team or you're just using that as an excuse to justify a close-mindedness that borders on prejudice.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Country comes first Ombak. Although you usually get this kind of response from those in the USA, considering they aren't really a true country, rather a melting pot of different nationalities under the same flag. It gives you a different perspective on things.

[Ombak]

Country comes first Ombak. Although you usually get this kind of response from those in the USA, considering they aren't really a true country, rather a melting pot of different nationalities under the same flag. It gives you a different perspective on things.Again, you're making no sense here. Country comes first? Which one? The attachment that comes of being born in one particular place is artificial. It's how you grow up (including where, in what culture and admiring whom and what) that shapes a notion of where you belong.

Your view of the USA is pretty irrelevant to any point.

[ur_land]

Country comes first Ombak. Although you usually get this kind of response from those in the USA, considering they aren't really a true country, rather a melting pot of different nationalities under the same flag. It gives you a different perspective on things.

So if Scotland suddenly had an influx of immigrants from (to pick a country not at random) Brazil, those naturalized citizens and/or their children would not really be scottish and/or that would make Scotland less of a "true country?"

To use your terms, bollocks.

[Elninho]

Some mercenaries are obvious, others less so. I think it's plain to everyone that Olisadebe playing for Poland is abuse of nationality, especially when Poland lets him slide on the residency requirement.

On the other hand, you have cases where forcing players to play for their country of birth isn't going to work. Consider Jeff Agoos: born in Switzerland, to American parents; his father was an American diplomat. Moved back to the States at age 2. Would you have forced him to play for Switzerland? Whether or not you think he could have made the team, do you think for a moment he feels any connection whatsoever to Switzerland?

Or Marcel Desailly. He may have been born in Ghana, but he barely even remembers living there - he's been in France since early childhood. And he speaks better French than most native-born Frenchmen. Do you think he is likely to show much loyalty to his country of birth?

[Excape Goat]

On the other side of the issue, what would people think if France rejected Desailly because he was not French-born. Isn't it a form of racial discrimiination? Imagine if Desailly is a french lawyer, would it be bad if a French law firm rejects him because he was not born in France.

People should understand that people has been moving around the world for centuries. Most countries are melting pots of different nationalities. It is not surprised to see an African with German or French passports anymore.

But I have to say Scotland is a different case. Correct me if I am wrong... all Scots(Welish, N.Irishs, etc) carry UK passports The selection of the Scotish national team members has been based on the grandfather clause. That is by blood. If you are a son of Ghanian immigrants living in Scotland, you are not a Scot, but a citizen of UK. In other countries around the world, a Ghanian kids living in Germany supposed to have the same citizen rights as a German kids in Germany. So it is a form of discrimination not to select him.

[nicephoras]

If people do not care about their country of origin, then they are scum in my eyes.

Count me as proud scum then; I couldn't give a rats ass, so long as my relatives are fine.
I'm so glad I have you on ignore. Your complete inability to even for one second step into the shoes of someone other than yourself is quite remarkable.

[Andy TAUS]

Country comes first Ombak. Although you usually get this kind of response from those in the USA, considering they aren't really a true country, rather a melting pot of different nationalities under the same flag. It gives you a different perspective on things.Teso aren't you a British citizen ? If so your country of origin is Britain, not Scotland.

Pot, kettle, black !

Citizenship of a country is the primary rule that FIFA uses for nationality, except for the 4 UK "countries". The subsequent underlying disqualification rule (of never playing in another country's full national team) is fair enough.

If it's good enough for me to be an Australian citizen, then it's good enough for me to play for Australia, NO MATTER WHERE I WAS BORN.

[Father Ted]

Country comes first Ombak. Although you usually get this kind of response from those in the USA, considering they aren't really a true country, rather a melting pot of different nationalities under the same flag.

That's funny coming from someone who is from Scotland. Have you checked your Scottish passport lately?

I was born just outside London to my Irish parents but we moved back to Ireland when I was 2 (I call it being in the wrong place at the wrong time syndrome!). So you're saying I should have no choice and that I have to play for England even though there is nothing English about me?

Listen, there's a happy medium. And Fifa did tighten the rules a little a couple of years ago and probably need to tighten a little more. There are issues like a lot of the players in the Ireland team are from England. There is a long history of immigration of Irish going to the UK and US and a lot of plastic paddys born in England have a tight connection to Ireland. Take Gary Breen who although born in England, spent all his summers as a kid at his grandparents in Ireland. True there are mercenaries like Clinton Morrison, Matt Holland and Jon Macken who probably never set foot in Ireland before they declared for Ireland but this kind of stuff is hard to regulate.

[Mikey10]

You should support the country which has done the most for you. But if 2 or so countries have done a lot for you, then you should support both. Basically, I support England because I've lived here all my life, yet if I moved to the US and lived there, I'd support them too. I fail to see how anyone who has never lived in a country could support their NT just because their parents are from there. That just annoys the hell outa me.

[swedcrip34]

You should support the country which has done the most for you. But if 2 or so countries have done a lot for you, then you should support both. Basically, I support England because I've lived here all my life, yet if I moved to the US and lived there, I'd support them too. I fail to see how anyone who has never lived in a country could support their NT just because their parents are from there. That just annoys the hell outa me.

What if one parent was only a citizen of that country and by right one could claim citizenship because of that? What if half of one's entire family still resides in that country? Support that country over the birth/residence country, yeah that'd annoy me too. But having that other country as a 2nd team, does that "annoy the hell outa you"?

[Burkies Ginger Mop]

Teso aren't you a British citizen ? If so your country of origin is Britain, not Scotland.

Pot, kettle, black !

Citizenship of a country is the primary rule that FIFA uses for nationality, except for the 4 UK "countries". The subsequent underlying disqualification rule (of never playing in another country's full national team) is fair enough.

If it's good enough for me to be an Australian citizen, then it's good enough for me to play for Australia, NO MATTER WHERE I WAS BORN.

Scottish people are from Scotland first and British second! We are just a very patriotic nation in general. I remember seeing some good points about Scottish people moving to England and become even more patriotic and proud. I know that’s the case with me. However a lot English people who move to Scotland soon find themselves feeling Scottish. We just have a very strong national identify. It’s a hard thing to explain.