Severe Doubts regarding Italy's 1934 World Cup Win

[Gregoriak]

There are three circumstances of facts that cast a huge shadow of doubt over the validity of Italy’s first World Cup win in 1934.

The first circumstance, and definitely the most severe, is Italy’s outright breaching of FIFA rules that should have led to Italy’s disqualification from the tournament already before the start. According to FIFA rules of the time, a player was only allowed to play for a second country if he had lived in that country for at least three years. Italy’s 1934 World Cup squad included four players from Argentina (Raimundo Orsi, Luis Monti, Atilio Demaria, Enrique Guaita) and one from Brasil (Anfilogino “Filo” Guarisi). Only Orsi had been playing in Italy for more than three years. None of the others players had played in Italy for anything close to three years. Thus the squad that represented Mussolini’s fascist Italy should have been suspended from participating in this World Cup tournament, regardless of being the host or not. This must rate as the single biggest scandal in the history of the World Cup. Fortunate for Italians, this is long gone and nobody really cares for this, but that doesn’t change that the validity of Italy’s first World Cup win is highly arguable.

The second circumstance concerns the quarterfinal match vs. Spain. In this game it became very clear that FIFA and thus the referees intended to please Benito Mussolini by doing everything to help the Italian team advance as far as possible.

In the fifth minute, the Spanish outside left Bosch was penetrating the Italian penalty area when Monzeglio brutally fouled him. Bosch had to be treated for 20 minutes outside of the pitch before he could come back, but all he could do from then on was hobble, thus Spain had to play with 10 men for 85 minutes of the match. Swiss referee Mercet didn’t interrupt the game after Monzeglio’s foul, which should have resulted in a penalty for Spain.

In the 11th minute, after a corner kick for Italy, Meazza clearly leaned upon Spain’s keeper Nogués with his hands before he headed the ball into the goal. It should have been disallowed, but ref Mercet had no such intentions. The goal was given. Even the Italian players were surprised at this decision. And even the German football papers were perplexed by this, despite generally being well meaning to the Italians, as both countries were led by right-wing dictatorships. German magazine “Fussball” wrote the day after the match: “Mercet had lost his courage. Just as he overlooked Monzeglio’s foul against Bosch previously, when he stood directly next to it, he remained dependent on the cheap propaganda of the Italian crowd.” Obviously, the decimated Spaniards were shocked by this decision as well.

In the 37th minute, ref Mercet again leaves no doubt that he is not a neutral in this match. Monzeglio unfairly attacks Campanal in the Italian penalty area. Right after the foul, both players stood face to face furiously and then Monzeglio grabbed Campanal’s chin, pushing his head back, directly in front of Mercet. A clear assault by the Italian defender! But not for Mercet, who let the game continue without taking any action… Seconds later, the next crass wrong decision by Mercet upsets all neutrals in the stadium. Two Italian defenders heckle an Spanish player in the penalty area. But amazingly, Mercet gives freekick to Italy! On the sidelines, the injured Spanish goalkeeper legend Zamora can’t believe what he sees while the neutral press writes the word “scandal” into their pocket books.

In the 62th minute, referee Mercet “crowns” his performance: Campanal fires a rebound past Combi into the Italian goal, but Mercet disallows the goal because of “off-sides”. Even the Swiss press criticizes their referee harshly after the match. The “Basler Nationalzeitung” writes: “Mercet favored the Italians in a most shameful manner.”

But this is still not all. Shortly before time, the ball passes Combi again and lands inside the Italian goal – what does Mercet say? Disallowed, of course! Why? Because a Spanish player had been fouled seconds before the scoring. Obviously, Mercet had “forgotten” that in such cases, the game continues if the fouled player’s team still possesses the ball, especially if it manages to score a goal! Germany’s “Fussball” magazine later wrote: “Double injustice! This is an extreme example of how a referee can actually reward a team that has fouled one of its opponents by not giving advantage to the fouled team. Because a Spaniard was fouled, his teammate was not allowed to score a goal!”

After this match, it had become painfully clear to all witnessing neutrals that FIFA had chosen Italy – and no other team – to win this tournament.


Now on to circumstance number three, the final itself, which saw hosts Italy paired with Czechoslovakia.

15 minute: Guaita brutally fouls Krcil, who is severely injured at his ankle. Although Krcil remained on the pitch he wasn’t up to full service anymore. The Czechs had to continue playing with 10 men, neutrals were reminded of what had happened to the Spaniards when Bosch had shared the same fate.

Shortly before halftime, the Italian brutalo football again raised its ugly head: Monti jumps with both legs onto Svoboda, who lies on the ground motionless. Monti’s dirty deed could only mean one thing in the eyes of all present neutral observers: send-off! But referee Eklind only gave freekick to Czechoslovakia. “Lucky” Italians once more…

In the 55th minute, outside left Puc breaks the Italian defense line and gets fouled by Monzeglio’s long leg 14 meter in front of the goal. Obvious penalty! But not so for Ivan Eklind. While Puc was wallowing on the pitch in a very sorry state, Eklind decided that the match continued. Disbelieving amazement among the spectators and outrage and disgust in the Czech camp.

Shortly after this incident, Meazza blatantly punches the already stricken Krcil in the liver in front of referee Eklind – yet again Eklind does not react. Apparently, the Italians seem to know that they can do what they want without the referee reacting …

Seven minutes later, Puc comes back to the pitch after long treatment, grabbing the ball immediately, tanking thru the Italian defence until Luigi Allemandi ruthlessly separates him from the ball. Again a breach of the rules which could have resulted in a send-off. But Eklind only gives a freekick to Czechoslovakia.

Despite the scandalous behaviour of the Italian players and Eklind’s equally scandalous inability to implement rules, Puc manages to score the lead in the 76th minute. A goal that even referee Eklind couldn’t prevent. Horror on the faces of the Italian spectators. Now the less than convincing Squadra Azzurri only had 15 minutes left to equalize. Was a national tragedy looming?

Italy now attacked ferociously, but the Czech defence around Planicka and Zenisek stood solidly. But 9 minutes from time, Orsi scored the equalizer. If you’re Italian, this is probably going to bore you by now, but this Italian goal should have been disallowed as Meazza had knocked over his opponent before Orsi scored. This should have resulted in a freekick to Czecheslovakia, not a goal to Italy.

In extra-time, Schiavio scored the winner for Italy.

After the match, it was rumoured that Eklind had talked to Mussolini prior to the match for a considerable amount of time. Although not many dared to openly say it, it was clear to neutrals that influence from outside of the world of football was mainly responsible for Italy’s triumph in this World Cup.

But even regardless of these political exertions of influence, Italy shouldn’t have been allowed to participate in this tournament in the first place, as they clearly and blatantly breached FIFA’s rules on so-called “Oriundi” players, as was stated at the very beginning.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

So England weren't the only ones... :mad:

[|--LdC--|]

There are three circumstances of facts that cast a huge shadow of doubt over the validity of Italy’s first World Cup win in 1934.

The first circumstance, and definitely the most severe, is Italy’s outright breaching of FIFA rules that should have led to Italy’s disqualification from the tournament already before the start. According to FIFA rules of the time, a player was only allowed to play for a second country if he had lived in that country for at least three years. Italy’s 1934 World Cup squad included four players from Argentina (Raimundo Orsi, Luis Monti, Atilio Demaria, Enrique Guaita) and one from Brasil (Anfilogino “Filo” Guarisi). Only Orsi had been playing in Italy for more than three years. None of the others players had played in Italy for anything close to three years. Thus the squad that represented Mussolini’s fascist Italy should have been suspended from participating in this World Cup tournament, regardless of being the host or not. This must rate as the single biggest scandal in the history of the World Cup. Fortunate for Italians, this is long gone and nobody really cares for this, but that doesn’t change that the validity of Italy’s first World Cup win is highly arguable.

The second circumstance concerns the quarterfinal match vs. Spain. In this game it became very clear that FIFA and thus the referees intended to please Benito Mussolini by doing everything to help the Italian team advance as far as possible.

In the fifth minute, the Spanish outside left Bosch was penetrating the Italian penalty area when Monzeglio brutally fouled him. Bosch had to be treated for 20 minutes outside of the pitch before he could come back, but all he could do from then on was hobble, thus Spain had to play with 10 men for 85 minutes of the match. Swiss referee Mercet didn’t interrupt the game after Monzeglio’s foul, which should have resulted in a penalty for Spain.

In the 11th minute, after a corner kick for Italy, Meazza clearly leaned upon Spain’s keeper Nogués with his hands before he headed the ball into the goal. It should have been disallowed, but ref Mercet had no such intentions. The goal was given. Even the Italian players were surprised at this decision. And even the German football papers were perplexed by this, despite generally being well meaning to the Italians, as both countries were led by right-wing dictatorships. German magazine “Fussball” wrote the day after the match: “Mercet had lost his courage. Just as he overlooked Monzeglio’s foul against Bosch previously, when he stood directly next to it, he remained dependent on the cheap propaganda of the Italian crowd.” Obviously, the decimated Spaniards were shocked by this decision as well.

In the 37th minute, ref Mercet again leaves no doubt that he is not a neutral in this match. Monzeglio unfairly attacks Campanal in the Italian penalty area. Right after the foul, both players stood face to face furiously and then Monzeglio grabbed Campanal’s chin, pushing his head back, directly in front of Mercet. A clear assault by the Italian defender! But not for Mercet, who let the game continue without taking any action… Seconds later, the next crass wrong decision by Mercet upsets all neutrals in the stadium. Two Italian defenders heckle an Spanish player in the penalty area. But amazingly, Mercet gives freekick to Italy! On the sidelines, the injured Spanish goalkeeper legend Zamora can’t believe what he sees while the neutral press writes the word “scandal” into their pocket books.

In the 62th minute, referee Mercet “crowns” his performance: Campanal fires a rebound past Combi into the Italian goal, but Mercet disallows the goal because of “off-sides”. Even the Swiss press criticizes their referee harshly after the match. The “Basler Nationalzeitung” writes: “Mercet favored the Italians in a most shameful manner.”

But this is still not all. Shortly before time, the ball passes Combi again and lands inside the Italian goal – what does Mercet say? Disallowed, of course! Why? Because a Spanish player had been fouled seconds before the scoring. Obviously, Mercet had “forgotten” that in such cases, the game continues if the fouled player’s team still possesses the ball, especially if it manages to score a goal! Germany’s “Fussball” magazine later wrote: “Double injustice! This is an extreme example of how a referee can actually reward a team that has fouled one of its opponents by not giving advantage to the fouled team. Because a Spaniard was fouled, his teammate was not allowed to score a goal!”

After this match, it had become painfully clear to all witnessing neutrals that FIFA had chosen Italy – and no other team – to win this tournament.


Now on to circumstance number three, the final itself, which saw hosts Italy paired with Czechoslovakia.

15 minute: Guaita brutally fouls Krcil, who is severely injured at his ankle. Although Krcil remained on the pitch he wasn’t up to full service anymore. The Czechs had to continue playing with 10 men, neutrals were reminded of what had happened to the Spaniards when Bosch had shared the same fate.

Shortly before halftime, the Italian brutalo football again raised its ugly head: Monti jumps with both legs onto Svoboda, who lies on the ground motionless. Monti’s dirty deed could only mean one thing in the eyes of all present neutral observers: send-off! But referee Eklind only gave freekick to Czechoslovakia. “Lucky” Italians once more…

In the 55th minute, outside left Puc breaks the Italian defense line and gets fouled by Monzeglio’s long leg 14 meter in front of the goal. Obvious penalty! But not so for Ivan Eklind. While Puc was wallowing on the pitch in a very sorry state, Eklind decided that the match continued. Disbelieving amazement among the spectators and outrage and disgust in the Czech camp.

Shortly after this incident, Meazza blatantly punches the already stricken Krcil in the liver in front of referee Eklind – yet again Eklind does not react. Apparently, the Italians seem to know that they can do what they want without the referee reacting …

Seven minutes later, Puc comes back to the pitch after long treatment, grabbing the ball immediately, tanking thru the Italian defence until Luigi Allemandi ruthlessly separates him from the ball. Again a breach of the rules which could have resulted in a send-off. But Eklind only gives a freekick to Czechoslovakia.

Despite the scandalous behaviour of the Italian players and Eklind’s equally scandalous inability to implement rules, Puc manages to score the lead in the 76th minute. A goal that even referee Eklind couldn’t prevent. Horror on the faces of the Italian spectators. Now the less than convincing Squadra Azzurri only had 15 minutes left to equalize. Was a national tragedy looming?

Italy now attacked ferociously, but the Czech defence around Planicka and Zenisek stood solidly. But 9 minutes from time, Orsi scored the equalizer. If you’re Italian, this is probably going to bore you by now, but this Italian goal should have been disallowed as Meazza had knocked over his opponent before Orsi scored. This should have resulted in a freekick to Czecheslovakia, not a goal to Italy.

In extra-time, Schiavio scored the winner for Italy.

After the match, it was rumoured that Eklind had talked to Mussolini prior to the match for a considerable amount of time. Although not many dared to openly say it, it was clear to neutrals that influence from outside of the world of football was mainly responsible for Italy’s triumph in this World Cup.

But even regardless of these political exertions of influence, Italy shouldn’t have been allowed to participate in this tournament in the first place, as they clearly and blatantly breached FIFA’s rules on so-called “Oriundi” players, as was stated at the very beginning.
This WC was completely fixed to fit the demands of Mussolini, he wanted to show how great his regime and his Italy were, so he did everything he could to give the trophy to Italy.
Mussolini said what refs he wanted for the Italy games... he choose a Swedish on the semi-final, he was so great...helping Italy... that Mussolini "proposed" FIFA to put him again on the final game...another scandal happened but obviously the objective was to give the WC to Italy...
Mussolini used football to entertain the people like Hitler did in Germany merging Germany with Austria (when Austria was by far superior to Germany), Franco did it in Spain with Real Madrid and in Portugal Salazar at lesser extent did it with Benfica, football its the most popular sport in the world so once in a while some will try to get political advantages when they can...

[argentine soccer fan]

I remember reading an article about the 1934 World Cup which alleged that some of the Argentine members of the Italian national team claimed that Mussolini had threatened the team with death if they didn't win. I wish I had a link, but I read it a long time ago.

According to the article, Mussolini went into the locker room before the final match and gave a pep talk to the Italian team which concluded with, 'Win or else...' followed by the universal sign for cutting someone's throat, and the players knew he was not joking.

Now all of the participants have been dead for a while, so it is hard to corroborate, but it wouldn't have been out of character for 'Il Duce'.

[dor02]

Gregoriak, where did you get this evidence?

[dor02]

What has clouded everybody's thoughts on the 1934 victory was that it was at a time when Mussolini was in power. If Italy wasn't under a dictatorship at that time, there wouldn't be people accusing Italy of rigging that World Cup. It could have been like 1938 when it wasn't in Italy and the Azzurri won fair and square.

Out of the players that played in 1934, only Ferrari, Meazza and Monzeglio played in 1938, though Monzeglio lost his spot after the Norway match. There were lots of players in 1938 who didn't play in the first win but aside from Ferrari, Meazza and Monzeglio, there was Vittorio Pozzo, coach of the Italian since 1929 or 1930 and also one of the greatest coaches ever. The way Pozzo structured the team in 1934 and 1938 would have been done in a similar manner. Out of the players who only played in '34 and were acceptable according to FIFA's original rules, Combi, Allemandi, Orsi and Schiavio were players of high standards. The rest of the team weren't players you could call push overs. They could play too.

This wasn't a bad team, the Italians already had lots of depth and were capable of winning without Mussolini's assistance but "Il Duce's" actions have clouded everyone forever.

[Century's Best]

Gregoriak,

An interesting and thought-provoking post. Where did you get your facts - any little-known sources that might prove useful to other soccer historians?

As well, given this is your take of Italy 1934, what's your take of Argentina 1978?

[Gregoriak]

The information is taken from this book:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3897841983/qid=1114420225/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/302-7509975-3109652

This book is part of a very detailed series of books dedicated to each World Cup since 1930. Until now, the years 1930 to 1962 are covered. It is however in German.

The scandalous part is also covered in an article published in "Fussball Weltzeitschrift" in 1996. It concludes that Italy should have been disqualified not just once but four separate times.

These recent books use football magazines and newspapers from 1934 as their sources, the match reports and articles concerning the tournament in these magazines from the 1930s leave no doubt about the nature of Italy's win.

[Gregoriak]

What has clouded everybody's thoughts on the 1934 victory was that it was at a time when Mussolini was in power. If Italy wasn't under a dictatorship at that time, there wouldn't be people accusing Italy of rigging that World Cup. It could have been like 1938 when it wasn't in Italy and the Azzurri won fair and square.

I can't follow your logic. There is no doubt that Mussolini played a crucial part. Without Mussolini being in charge in 1934, Italy would not have won that World Cup. Simple.

Out of the players that played in 1934, only Ferrari, Meazza and Monzeglio played in 1938, though Monzeglio lost his spot after the Norway match. There were lots of players in 1938 who didn't play in the first win but aside from Ferrari, Meazza and Monzeglio, there was Vittorio Pozzo, coach of the Italian since 1929 or 1930 and also one of the greatest coaches ever. The way Pozzo structured the team in 1934 and 1938 would have been done in a similar manner. Out of the players who only played in '34 and were acceptable according to FIFA's original rules, Combi, Allemandi, Orsi and Schiavio were players of high standards. The rest of the team weren't players you could call push overs. They could play too.

This wasn't a bad team, the Italians already had lots of depth and were capable of winning without Mussolini's assistance but "Il Duce's" actions have clouded everyone forever.

I'm not saying that Italy wasn't a decent team. It surely has to rank as one of the best of its time. But that doesn't change the fact that its win of the 1934 World Cup should be considered invalid. Even if one ignores the pro-Italy biased refereeing during the tournament, the simple fact that Italy should have been disqualified already prior to the start of the Cup is sufficient enough. The FIFA rules were clear but they weren't implemented. That is a scandal in its own right.

[argentine soccer fan]

The information is taken from this book:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3897841983/qid=1114420225/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/302-7509975-3109652

This book is part of a very detailed series of books dedicated to each World Cup since 1930. Until now, the years 1930 to 1962 are covered. It is however in German.



Sounds very interesting. Is this book about the WC in general, or does it concentrate on emphasizing problems and unjusticies, such as those which you are bringing up?

The 1962 Cup was also said to have had lots of irregularities. The Chile-Italy match in particular. Do they cover that in the book?

[Gregoriak]

Sounds very interesting. Is this book about the WC in general, or does it concentrate on emphasizing problems and unjusticies, such as those which you are bringing up?

The 1962 Cup was also said to have had lots of irregularities. The Chile-Italy match in particular. Do they cover that in the book?

These books cover everything, not just irregularities or scandals. Qualification, final stages, political circumstances, press coverage, organization, star players, managers - really everything. So far I have read the 1934, 1950, 1958 and 1962 books. I don't particularly remember what was said in regards to the scandalous Chile v Italy match, but it was a highpoint in the book, of course. If you're interested I will re-order it from my library and post a translation.

[dor02]

:)

[dor02]

I can't follow your logic. There is no doubt that Mussolini played a crucial part. Without Mussolini being in charge in 1934, Italy would not have won that World Cup. Simple.



I'm not saying that Italy wasn't a decent team. It surely has to rank as one of the best of its time. But that doesn't change the fact that its win of the 1934 World Cup should be considered invalid. Even if one ignores the pro-Italy biased refereeing during the tournament, the simple fact that Italy should have been disqualified already prior to the start of the Cup is sufficient enough. The FIFA rules were clear but they weren't implemented. That is a scandal in its own right.

What I meant by "it could have been like 1938 when it wasn't in Italy and the Azzurri won fair and square" is if the 1934 World Cup was held in a different nation and Italy had won, there wouldn't be people questioning the Azzurri's credentials.

At least in the second paragraph, you stated your thoughts of the quality of the 1934 team and I respect your opinion.

[Ombak]

What I meant by "it could have been like 1938 when it wasn't in Italy and the Azzurri won fair and square" is if the 1934 World Cup was held in a different nation and Italy had won, there wouldn't be people questioning the Azzurri's credentials.

At least in the second paragraph, you stated your thoughts of the quality of the 1934 team and I respect your opinion.What about the statement in the first post that Italy sued players illegally - Argentines etc. who had not lived in Italy long enough to play for Italy under FIFA rules?

[argentine soccer fan]

If you're interested I will re-order it from my library and post a translation.

I find it very interesting. Mainly because, when I was growing up I heard a lot of stuff about the old world cups from what we could call 'oral tradition'. It is interesting when we get other perspectives about the early cups, especially if they are well documented.

About 1934, the Spanish in Argentina used to say that Italy stole the cup, and in particular they talked about how they intentionally hurt the Spanish players, including the great goalkeeper Zamora, who couldn't play the second match. I also heard that the Italian players were under threat of death, so that led them to play dirty. There are lost of stories, but mostly it was people talking, long after the fact, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. That is why it is great if there is a book which is well researched and chronicles what really happened.

[Sempre]

I find no confirmation for what you're saying, Gregoriak, in
the soccer histories and WC histories I've read. I have the
ones by Michael Lewis, Paul Gardner, and Simon Kuper here,
and the most anyone says is that Italy's Fascist regime used
soccer to promote its power, which is morally odious but not
at all a matter of cheating.

In WC history there is a clear incident of cheating, though, and
that was Germany's scandalous fixed game with Austria in 1982.
There are also plenty of rumors about Argentina's 6-0 drubbing
of Peru from 1978--with people saying that the Argentines bribed
the Peruvians to throw it. But that is mainly hearsay.

Most accounts of the 1934 WC say that Italy was given favorable
decisions by the ref--particularly in the Austria match, where
Meazza was supposed to have fouled the goalkeeper. But almost
every country that hosts a WC gets favorable refereeing--look at
Korea in 02 and Spain in 82--but this is a phenomenon called
"crowd control."

Anyway, most neutral observers say that Italy was the strongest
soccer nation in the 30s and did, in fact, lose a chance to win more
glory by the advent of World War II . . .

[Gregoriak]

Sempre, you forgot to address the most severe point - namely that Italy had no right to participate in this World Cup in the first place, as it had blatantly breached FIFA's rules by using four Oriundi (3 Argies, 1 Brasileiro) that had not played for Italian clubs for the mimimum amount of three years. FIFA should have acted by suspending Italy at the moment they entered their official squad.

This circumstances was first made public in 1996 in an article by "Fussball Weltzeitschrift", which concluded that Italy should have been disqualified four times. It is this simple fact that makes Italy's 1934 World Cup win invalid. The favorable refereeing itself is only a minor matter if you like, as the legal matter of the outright breaching of FIFA rules is clearly evident and needs no further prove.


I find no confirmation for what you're saying, Gregoriak, in
the soccer histories and WC histories I've read. I have the
ones by Michael Lewis, Paul Gardner, and Simon Kuper here,
and the most anyone says is that Italy's Fascist regime used
soccer to promote its power, which is morally odious but not
at all a matter of cheating.

The biased refereeing is a long known fact. The book I have utilized deals especially and exclusively with the 1934 World Cup. The books you referred to deal with complete World Cup history. A difference in the detail and the presentation of facts is thus inevitable.

In WC history there is a clear incident of cheating, though, and
that was Germany's scandalous fixed game with Austria in 1982.

But Germany did not win the World Cup in 1982, and they were taking part in that tournament legally (no breach of FIFA rules), which is a decisive difference to Italy 1934. Also Germany was not playing at home and the referee had nothing to do with this. Plus, if you watch that game, it becomes very clear that this game was not fixed before the start, as Germany clearly dominates the Austrians in the first half, being unlucky to score not more than 1 goal. In the middle of the second half, the Austrians started to play extremely lacklustre and defensive which lulled the German team into sleep. The main fault was on FIFA's side, who in fact invited the teams to play like that due to the schedule.

Another decisive difference to Italy in 1934 was that Germany did win this match fair and square without the help of the referee and you can't really blame a team for winning a match, even if it's only 1-0.

There are also plenty of rumors about Argentina's 6-0 drubbing
of Peru from 1978--with people saying that the Argentines bribed
the Peruvians to throw it. But that is mainly hearsay.

Watch the game and you will see that it is indeed mostly hearsay. Argentina played like a true world champion in that match. Things like that can happen, especially if a great team plays in front of an ecstatic crowd. Generally I have the feeling most people underrate Argentina 1978 immensely due to the dubious surroundings. What I have seen of this team is quite impressive.

Also, I would like to add that instances like Argentine 1978 or Germany 1982 or England 1966 have been flogged to death in recent years. At the same time, the most scandalous scandal of all - Italy 1934 - is hardly ever mentioned anywhere. Now once it gets the attention it deserves, it doesn't take long as someone brings up the same old Argentina 78 etc. again. This thread is not about Argentina 1978. If you check out bigsoccer, there are enough threads dealing with the other scandals. This thread is reserved for the biggest of them all, that is so immensely overlooked - Italy 1934.

Most accounts of the 1934 WC say that Italy was given favorable
decisions by the ref--particularly in the Austria match, where
Meazza was supposed to have fouled the goalkeeper. But almost
every country that hosts a WC gets favorable refereeing--look at
Korea in 02 and Spain in 82--but this is a phenomenon called
"crowd control."

Again, here's a major difference to Italy 1934, because Korea and Spain both did not win the Cup and both teams took part without breaking any FIFA rules.

Anyway, most neutral observers say that Italy was the strongest
soccer nation in the 30s and did, in fact, lose a chance to win more
glory by the advent of World War II . . .

Ever heard about England and Uruguay? Uruguay at least in the early 1930s was a very strong team and I don't have to go into detail about England's strength. Both of these teams did not participate in the 1934 and 1938 World Cups ...

[argentine soccer fan]

Ever heard about England and Uruguay? Uruguay at least in the early 1930s was a very strong team and I don't have to go into detail about England's strength. Both of these teams did not participate in the 1934 and 1938 World Cups ...

I'd say some of the top players in the world did not participate. No British teams, no Uruguay. Plus, Argentina sent an amateur team in 34, and didn't participate in 38, because the clubs refused to allow the professionals to go. (According to oral tradition, because the clubs didn't want the Italian teams to steal all their top players.) Brasil also didn't send their best players in 34. They did send some of their best in 38, including the great Leonidas.

[Sempre]

What I have to concede, Gregoriak, is that I have not
read the book you've read and am not qualified to discuss
its merits.

I will say this though: I find it very odd that no authority
writing about soccer has ever made the point you're now
making, considering how much ink has been spent on the
various WC controversies over the years.

I am also not encouraged to read your thoughts on the
Germany-Austria match in 1982, a clearly rotten game by
almost universal opinion. I'd also say that investing a lot
of time in these old scandals (or non-scandals) is an
enterprise that won't yield much of a return. I don't even
want to go into the Germany-Austria match, or Argentina's
78 victory.

The credibility of the team that wins the World Cup is of
of utmost importance, and it is good for people to remember
that the champion has to be a worthy winner.

[dor02]

What about the statement in the first post that Italy sued players illegally - Argentines etc. who had not lived in Italy long enough to play for Italy under FIFA rules?

Even if Italy played under FIFA's rules, Italy still had enough depth to at least make the final.