NFR-Jews in Present Day Germany?

[Catfish]

With the new Pope being selected today and him being a German, I have some pride being part German, but not a Catholic.

I have read that there is a slow resurging Jewish community in Germany. Which cities have Jewish communities and about how many per city?

Thanks for any information you can provide.

[mofo4life]

i would say there are about 80000-100000 jews in germany, most of them are from russia

Berlin has the biggest jewish community(maybe 20000-30000), other cities with a jewish minority are Frankfurt and Munich

[Germanshepherd]

What has that to do with Pope or football?

But I think mofo is right. There are about 100000 jews in germany. I`ve heard the same.

[F96]

I can only tell you about my hometown. There is the "Jüdische Gemeinde Hannover" (http://www.jg-hannover.de/index.html) (jewish community of Hannover") which has roughly 3000 members and the "Liberale jüdische Gemeinde Hannover" which has about 300.

I think they should rebuild the syngogue which was destroyed:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/image/0,1587,1123079_6,00.jpg

The city with the biggest jewish population is Berlin with about 15.000 - 20.000 followed by Frankfurt.

The synagogue in Berlin is beautiful, I visited it 3 years ago. I need to see the jewish museum (http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/jewishmuseum/), it's supposed to be really impressive.
http://www.berlin-tourist-information.de/bilder/sehenswuerdigkeiten/neue-synagoge-berlin-centrum-judaicum_01_gross.jpg

another link:
http://www.berlin-judentum.de/english.htm

Westend-Synagogue in Frankfurt:
http://www.papdam.net/staticfiles/Westend-Synagoge-k.JPG

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Jewish museum was incredible when I went to Germany. It is a must see if you go to Germany, it was very moving for me, and I am not German nor Jewish.

[96Squig]

The most important 'german' city with jewish influence would be Vienna though. And about the jews being Russian, I think a lot of them came back after WW2 and lived here since then, while others were fleeing the communism in general.

[jonam]

With the new Pope being selected today and him being a German, I have some pride being part German, but not a Catholic.

I have read that there is a slow resurging Jewish community in Germany. Which cities have Jewish communities and about how many per city?

Thanks for any information you can provide.



Questions & Answers about Germany

Are there any Jews in Germany today?

Yes.

There are again about 100,000 Jews in Germany today. Some are former World War II refugees and their children and grandchildren. Jews born in eastern Europe make up 70 percent of West Germany's Jewish population. Most of the growth of Germany's Jewish population has been in recent years, since the ending of East-West division made it possible for Jews to leave the former Soviet Union and other former Warsaw Pact states. Most of Germany's Jews live in the cities of Berlin, Frankfurt/Main, Munich and Düsseldorf.

Although Germany's Jewish communities are relatively small, they have moved beyond viewing themselves as communities of survivors with the sole purpose of regulating and administrating restitution claims. A Jewish community infrastructure has gradually developed over the years; in addition to synagogues, many rebuilt with funding from the German government, it includes schools, centers for adult education and community centers. In early 2003 the federal government signed an historic agreement with the Central Council of Jews in Germany, that gives the Jewish national umbrella organization the same legal standing as the Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches.

In early 1933, i.e. before Hitler came to power, Germany was home to about 530,000 Jews, who accounted for 0.8 percent of the population.


Source: http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/facts/facts/questions_en/poldevelopment/history17.html


I am surprised by the fact that there are only 100.000 jews in Germany today and that there were only about half a million before 1933. Really thought it were and are more.

Btw, the synagoge in Berlin, mentioned above, is more of a high-security building with many cops and even MP around. Really a shame that things like that are necessary in Germany today. :-(

[96Squig]

(...)

Btw, the synagoge in Berlin, mentioned above, is more of a high-security building with many cops and even MP around. Really a shame that things like that are necessary in Germany today. :-(
I think this is also a reaction to Israel's policy towards it's neighbours... and the same thing is done for rhe US embassys here, so I don't know...

[DanielHSV]

Btw, the synagoge in Berlin, mentioned above, is more of a high-security building with many cops and even MP around. Really a shame that things like that are necessary in Germany today. :-(

Unfortunately this is necessary all over the world.

On Topic:
The jewish communities in Germany are growing, cos there are a lot of jewish immigrants from the former Sovietunion. AFAIK there are more russian jews immigrating to Germany than to Israel.

[Dead Fingers]

Btw, the synagoge in Berlin, mentioned above, is more of a high-security building with many cops and even MP around. Really a shame that things like that are necessary in Germany today. :-(

I took a great walking tour of Berlin once and the guide said that all Jewish synagogues/ cemetary's receive police protection. Does that sound right?

I know they are going to...or might already have moved the American Embassy, which had the wire and armored vehicles out front. I know they were moving it closer to Pariser Platz by the Brandenburger Tor, but this was delayed due to the traffic: vehicle and leg.....and securing the building.

Missed ya jonam...hope you are doing well.

[Grizzly]

All Jewish synagoges/cemeteries have varying degrees of police protection in Germany but the synagoge in Berlin has particularly high security. The renovating/rebuilding of the synagoge was symbolic and very high profile in Germany and it has become the symbol of the Jewish presence in Germany. As a result it has received regular serious threats from both the neo-Nazis and radical Islamists. When I have walked by it there were usually several police with sub-machine guns in front.

Most of the Jews in Germany are indeed Russian and it is not surprising that more are immigrating to Germany than Israel. Russian Jews don't tend to be very religious and are more interested in a better life than any Zionist ideals of an Israeli state. Many Russian Jews have been disappointed after immigrating to Israel as it is more dangerous living there than it is in Russia and the standard of living is not as much higher as they expected particularly given prices for goods almost all of which are imported from far away countries as there is little trade with their arab neighbouring states. The Russian Jews are also not welcomed by many Israelis and face discrimination and are also not used to the amount of power wielded by the Orthodox who want to prevent people from doing any sort of activity on the Sabbath. Many Russian Jews who immigrated to Israel have reimmigrated to other western countries (it is easier to get to these countries as an Israeli citizen than a Russian one) and have advised their friends in Russia to apply to immigrate to another country if they can. When I lived in Germany I had a friend in exactly this situation as he had immigrated to Israel and then later to Germany. He told me he was seriously considering returning to Russia if Germany hadn't accepted him basically because he wasn't living that much better in Israel than in Russia and he was constantly afraid everytime his wife and children went out that they would be blown up. When asked if it bothered him to live as a Jew in Germany he would reply that the current situation concerned him far more than that of the past and that his and his family's situation was much better in Germany than in either Russia or Israel.

[Catfish]

Grizzly,

Thanks for your thoughts. I too have heard that many Jews have had a hard time assimilating in Israel, either change of lifestyle or other various reasons. I have heard that many Russian Jews in Israel don't know any Hebrew and never learn so they find it very hard.

[Catfish]

Grizzly,

Thanks for your thoughts. I too have heard that many Jews have had a hard time assimilating in Israel, either change of lifestyle or other various reasons. I have heard that many Russian Jews in Israel don't know any Hebrew and never learn so they find it very hard.

[96Squig]

Yup, and I think with Russian it is possible (or even easy) in Germany to get along :-/

[Germanshepherd]

Yup, and I think with Russian it is possible (or even easy) in Germany to get along :-/

Thats probably a reason why 80% of immigrated jews depend on social welfare.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:M6siAy_EL6QJ:www.satiricum.de/images/a2001-09/20010906-friedman.jpg

I must say I quite enjoy his debating even if he can get annoying .

I like him to as a moderator. He is one of the best.

[Dead Fingers]

Side question here.. How are the relations between Germany and Russia? Never really hear anything about that over here.

[Grizzly]

Relations between Germany and Russia are quite good at the moment and much better than between the US and Russia. For one thing Germany is not planning to have military bases in as many countries bordering Russia as possible. Nor does it continually send its high ranking officials on visits to Moscow to make vocal criticisms of their democratic process and press freedom while having the same flaws in its own system. (Not that I don't think Putin should be criticized but having lived in both Russia and the US I don't think either are particularly democratic nor does either have a free press. It is funny how when Rice and before her Powell are in Russia and make their criticisms the "unfree" Russian press reports this word for word on the front page but when Ivanov makes a counter criticism it doesn't even make it into the "free" American newspapers at all). Putin also did a KGB posting in Dresden during the GDR times and thus speaks pretty good German.

Russian immigrants do tend to learn German and find employment with the exception of the German Russian immigrant group who are a large portion of the Russian immigrants. The problem here is that regular Russian immigrants have to have some employment skill and language ability before immigrating while this is not required for Russians with German blood. The policy of repatriating the German Russians who have lived in Russia for hundreds of years was largely of racial origin, i.e. bringing more German blood back into a country not comfortable with ethnic diversity. Thus, any Russian who can prove German ancestry is pretty much let into Germany regardless of employment skills or whether they can communicate in the language. Most of the German Russians speak no German or speak a dialect that noone can understand in Germany and thus are unemployable for several years. While no immigrant group is terribly popular in Germany the Russians have tended to adapt pretty well in Germany and in the case of the German Russians it just takes more time for this to happen. There are no major problems as there are between Germans and Turks or between Russian Jews and Israelis. In East Germany there is still some negative connotation with Russia for historical reasons but on the other hand most East Germans can speak a little Russia and there is much more slavic influence on the culture here so on a personal level I think Russian immigrants fit in a bit better culturally than in West Germany.

I think Russian immigrants have been far more open to learning languages like English, French and German than Hebrew. This is because most of them are secular or non-practicing Jews and don't feel compelled to learn a non-international language because it is the language of their forefathers. They would rather learn a language they feel is useful. This is maybe the heart of their problem in Israel, they basically want to have a better life, not to live in a Jewish state or the land of their ancestors. Thus, they are less committed to putting up with the many hardships in Israel and with living according to religious rules. My friend was a musician and couldn't believe that if he practiced on the Sabbath that his orthodox neighbours would knock on his door and say he musn't do this on the Sabbath (not because they didn't like the music but because they thought he was committing a sin). Nevertheless his decision to leave Israel was mostly based on standard of living and safety issues. I also know quite a few Russian jews in Canada who also immigrated first to Israel and then later to Canada.

As for being German in Russia, for a time in Germany I had a Russian girlfriend with whom I communicated in German so whenever I was in Russia with her most people thought I was German at first. I was always surprised by how positive I was received as a German in Russia despite the history even in St. Petersburg and with older people who lived through the war. Now and then one would get the odd Hitler joke (which was intended to be funny not insulting) but generally one was treated very well. Most Russians learned a bit of German in school although they can only say a few words. I have had the odd experience of having spoken German in many countries when travelling with German friends and know what it is like to be considered as German in various countries. Russia was one of the most positive ones to be considered German, I have experienced a lot more negativity in many western European countries.

[Germanshepherd]

Not that I don't think Putin should be criticized but having lived in both Russia and the US I don't think either are particularly democratic nor does either have a free press.

I think you have a hard time to prove that this isnt utter bulls*ht. Is there any TV station in Russia left that isnt under control of the russian gouvernment? I think, no.


Russian immigrants do tend to learn German and find employment

Dont know where you got his, but 80% of immigrated jews (that includes russian jews) depend on social welfare.


The policy of repatriating the German Russians who have lived in Russia for hundreds of years was largely of racial origin, i.e. bringing more German blood back into a country not comfortable with ethnic diversity. Thus, any Russian who can prove German ancestry is pretty much let into Germany regardless of employment skills or whether they can communicate in the language.


Immigration as a whole was a mistake in Germany, I agree. But one has to realize that a lot of germans coming out of Russia had big problems living in Russia because they are of german descent. So it probably was kind of a responsibility to give them a new home in Germany.

[mofo4life]

But one has to realize that a lot of germans coming out of Russia had big problems living in Russia because they are of german descent. So it probably was kind of a responsibility to give them a new home in Germany.

That's right, people of german descent had a hard time in eastern europe, like my whole family.

The were deported,killed and treated like ******** for being german.

Thank god we moved to Germany.

[96Squig]

I have to agree with Grizly that the Russians causing trouble here are usually the German-Russians. Another problem is that often whole families move here just because the parents want to. The Young ppl don't know anything about the culture and the language and so on and feel totally russian and therefor don't want to integrate... Another problem is that the germans in Russia kept their German traditions and stuff while the Germans did let them go...
A lot of Non-German Russians here are intergated very well though (and I know some German-Russians who did that too. Ausnahmen bestätigen die Regel)

q germanshpeherd: Without immigration the Wirtschaftswunder would not have been as big as it was but rather small...!