How come England can produce a true #10?

[fuentga]

Folks..I dont mean to challenge here but over the years I have noticed that England has not developed a #10 playmaker along the lines of a Pele, Zico, Maradona, Valderrama, 0rtega, Del Piero, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ron Gaucho, Juninho Paulisto, Figo, Z.Z. etc..

It seems from the outside that England tends to punish creative players..Rix, Hoddle, Waddle, Alan Hudson, Rodney Marsch, LeTessier..etc..

The closest they have come to a true #10 is Gazza in recent memory..I always laugh when I see that England wants Scholes to be the playmaker..he does not have the visison or the skills to play in that position..

In Latin America they seem to grow them on trees..see Pablo Aimar, Saviola, Tevez, among others..

So, what is going on?..Can this explain the lack of major success at the WC since '66?

[ursula]

I think I'll move this over to the England forum....there just may be more of a response there...

[appoo]

I'm not sure what number Paul Scholes wears but I always thought he was one of the best playmakers in the world. And he has a great understudy in Owen Hargraeves. I mean, us Americans have a #10 in Reyna and a future playmaker in Kyle Martino, but i'd rather have Scholes and Hargraeves than Reyna and Martino

[sinner78]

Ever heard of Joe Cole???

[Belgian guy]

Cole is good, but he has never proven himself on the highest level (world cup, champions league). Sven seems to see him as a wildcard he can put on when things aren't going Englands way, rather than a starter on the nr 10 position. But let's face it, this isn't really a problem that only England has, is it? A greatly talented side as the Dutch don't have a real nr. 10 either, Ballack comes close, but tells the people himself he doesn't consider himself to be a nr. 10, so neither do the Germans. According to me only 3 sides in Europe have real old fashion nr. ten, namely Portugal with Rui Costa, France with Zidane and Italy with Totti. Raul could do it, but his position in the Spanish NT seems to be more of a support striker. So it is hardly a shame for a nation not to produce a great nr. 10, considering that according to me right now only about 10-15 guys are good enough to pull it of succesfully on the highest level...

[Prenn]

Also the concept of a continental style #10 in English football is a bit off, In England the #10 is a striker. The playmaker is usually a central midfielder these days, they used to be wingers but not anymore.

Saying England doesn't have a '#10' is akin to saying that Italy don't have any wingers.

[Clan]

Originally posted by Prenn
Also the concept of a continental style #10 in English football is a bit off, In England the #10 is a striker. The playmaker is usually a central midfielder these days, they used to be wingers but not anymore.

Saying England doesn't have a '#10' is akin to saying that Italy don't have any wingers.

I was just about to say that the current European Footballer of the year is an excellent #10...;)

[SJFC4ever]

Well that is the point exactly. In "British" (I say British because there is no #10 concept in Scotland either) football, Owen is given the #10 shirt. On the continent, he would be given the #9, because he is a goal-getter who plays on the shoulder of the last defender.

Using the continental definition of #10, Scholes is by far the closest England has. Yet he is rarely used there.

There would be an argument for playing two wingers and no #10 if England had good wingers on each side. Yet they only have Beckham on the right (and even he likes to come inside), and nothing on the left.

What would make more sense is a 4-3-1-2 with Scholes as the 1. I understand they used this in the second half against Slovakia, and it worked pretty well then.

[Doctor Stamen]

In time, Matt Jansen may be a sort of 'Number 10', that the original poster was reffering to. I think that the current crop of players would find it a bit difficult to play in a system with a No. 10 in the Figo, Rivaldo etc. mould.

[sydtheeagle]

Originally posted by fuentga
I always laugh when I see that England wants Scholes to be the playmaker..he does not have the visison or the skills to play in that position..


I always laugh when I see people call a Champions League Winning, triple medal holding, multi-premiership title winning fulcrum of perhaps the best domestic team ever produced in England, who has consistently scored and made goals at international level and whom people who actually know something about football consider one of England's few truly world class players, somehow lacking in vision.

[Pigs]

I always laugh when I see that England wants Scholes to be the playmaker..he does not have the visison or the skills to play in that position..


Are you kidding?

[Doctor Stamen]

He has been a bit of the boil for England recently. I'm a bit concerned about young Joe Cole though, he seems to be a bit of a show pony with his tricks and flicks with no end product.

[Jawz10]

From what I've seen, English sides don't even make use of traditional, "continental" #10's. The playmaking in England comes from the wings which maybe explains one of numerous reasons why Manchester United and Arsenal have done so well in recent times. They have phenomonal wingers in Giggs, Beckham, Pires, Wiltord, (Henry to an extent).

I've always felt that a player like Zidane could not play in England. Not because he isn't talented enough or strong enough, but because his position on the field is not generally applied in the Premiership. Maybe thats what happened to Veron also.

[pololo]

In Europe they really don't care about the real nr 10 player.
In Europe they train the whole team as one not like in South America where there is always a super "10" who is the leader in the team and makes some great football(Maradona,Zico,Pele,Valderrama etc)

England shouldn't use Paul Scholes as the 10# playmaker unless they want to embarass themself.
He doesn't have the ability.

[Mobile]

Originally posted by pololo
England shouldn't use Paul Scholes as the 10# playmaker unless they want to embarass themself.
He doesn't have the ability.

Scholes is the most technically gifted English player and is the only English player capable of playing in that role. He could do it but his game is more suited to stealthy runs from the midfield.

[ROM2]

Tony Currie
Alan Hudson
Stan Bowles
Rodney Marsh

How many times did they represent England?...all were capable of the #10 role.

Cole and Owen can currently play there but the system doesn't accomodate them. Any other country would've bloodied Cole by now so that he would develope the confidence to play at the top level...England can produce the raw talent but then they stifle it.

[sinner78]

Originally posted by ROM2
...England can produce the raw talent but then they stifle it.

yeah ,alot of raw talent goes to waste...
I wish we could take advantage of all the talent out there .Over in argentina thay work with kids as young as 8 years old and develop their skills ....Kids only start working with clubs in their teens over here (probably due to child labour laws)..

[Prenn]

Originally posted by ROM2
Tony Currie
Alan Hudson
Stan Bowles
Rodney Marsh

How many times did they represent England?...all were capable of the #10 role.

Cole and Owen can currently play there but the system doesn't accomodate them. Any other country would've bloodied Cole by now so that he would develope the confidence to play at the top level...England can produce the raw talent but then they stifle it.

Cole would have been played for 20 games before they realised what we already know: He's a glorified 5-a-side player with a lot of potential but not much end product.

[ROM2]

Originally posted by Prenn
Cole would have been played for 20 games before they realised what we already know: He's a glorified 5-a-side player with a lot of potential but not much end product.

Currently Cole plays as a standard midfield player trying to balance attack with defence - if he was groomed to play a more offensive role his 'end product' would be better.Only Gazza has played the standard mid role with great success. Beardsley,Hoddle
and waddle could also have done well in the'hole'. With an attitude like the above how can you wonder why England don't produce many #10's - it's not all about passion and getting 'stuck in'.

[minorthreat]

Originally posted by Belgian guy
Raul could do it, but his position in the Spanish NT seems to be more of a support striker.He could, but Juan Carlos Valeron already fills the #10 role.