On the future of US Soccer :"ODP is a white suburban clique"

[ur_land]

On the youth national team page, there's a thread anticipating the U-16 team's trip to the Ballymena Tournament in Northern Ireland at the end of April. Included on the Ballymena preview site is this team picture:

http://www.ballymena-tournament.org/y2005/site/team-usa.jpg

IMOX77 was able to caption the picture:

Top Row - (Left to Right)
25-Anthony Wallace, 28-Josmer Altidore, 24-Joe Bendik, 40-Brian Perk, 36-Bryan Arguez, 41-Greg Eckhardt

Bottom Row - (Left to Right)
37-Victor Cortez, 22-Cesar Nunez, 35-Andrew Gialambardo, 29-Michael Stephens, 27-Jonathan Collier

Bradenton Residency Roster
http://www.region3odp.org/Boys/even...cy%20Roster.pdf

Digging around the tourney site, I found this picture of last years' team (12 of whom are now on the u-17 team that's playing qualifiers in Costa Rica for the U-17 world cup):

http://www.ballymena-tournament.org/y2004/site/team-usa.jpg

Roster

1 Rueckner, Bryant PSG (Calif.)
2 Balogun, Michael Houstonians
3 Alston, Kevin Potomac Cougars
4 Lichaj, Eric Chicago Magic
5 Edgar, Richard Potomac Cougars
6 Kirk, Quavas Chicago Magic
7 Sarkodie, Ofori Ambassador SC
8 Stephens, Michael Sockers
9 Zimmerman, Preston Crossfire Premier
10 Borja, Carlos Cruz Azul
11 Soroka, Ryan FC Delco
12 Dal Pra, Michael New Rochelle Raiders
13 Brooks, Alandus CJSO
14 Nakazawa, Kyle
15 Amechi Igwe
16 Nicolas Boesagno (sic)
17 Hall, Jeremy HC United
18 Newton, Evan Beach FC Hurricanes

I hope this can help put to rest the idea that floats around here that US Soccer/ODP is only for rich, white boys and that US Soccer isn't doing enough to recruit African American and Latino players.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but these samples make it seem that it's not as broken as some people here think.

[appoo]

that is one impressive fro'

[Sandon Mibut]

Here's a list of the players currently in residency in Bradenton and there ethnicity. Admitedly, this is based in part on seeing pictures of the players combined with their last names.

Over half of them are Latino and/or African American.

0-Diego Restrepo - not sure (haven’t seen a picture)
1-Bryant Rueckner - Caucasian
2-Michael Balogun – African American
3-Kevin Alston – African American
4-Eric Lichaj - Caucasian
5-Ofori Sarkodie – African American
6-Quavas Kirk – African American
7-Carlos Borja - Latino
8-Kyle Nakazawa - Asian
9-Preston Zimmerman – Caucasian
10-David Arvizu - Latino
11-Ryan Soroka - Caucasian
12-Eddie Ababio – African American
13-Blake Wagner – Caucasian
14-Amaechi Igwe – African American
15-Gabriel Farfan - Latino
16-Nik Besagno – Caucasian
17-Jeremy Hall – African American
18-Evan Newton – Caucasian
19-Michael Farfan - Latino
20-Eric Avila - Latino
21-Neven Subotic – Caucasian
22-Cesar Nunez - Latino
23-Anthony Ampaipitakwong - Asian
24-Joe Bendik – Caucasian
25-Anthony Wallace – African American
26-Richard Edgar – Caucasian
27-Jonathan Collier – African American
28-Josmer Altidore – African American
29-Michael Stephens – Caucasian
30-Ryan Peterman – Caucasian
31-Ernesto Mariscal - Latino
32-Hector Jimenez - Latino
33-Danny Ortega - Latino
34-Omar Gonzalez - Latino
35-Andrew Giallombardo – Caucasian
36-Bryan Arguez – African American and/or Latino
37-Victor Cortez - African American and/or Latino
38-Peri Marosevic – Caucasian
39-Joseph Sorrentino - not sure (haven’t seen a picture)
40-Brian Perk – Caucasian
41-Greg Eckhardt – Caucasian

[ur_land]

two impressive fros--Kevin Alston on the u-17s has a nice one too.

[Sanguine]

that is one impressive fro'


no kidding. cap Bryan Arguez now!

[IMOX77]

39-Joseph Sorrentino - not sure (haven’t seen a picture)

Looks Italian/Caucasian
http://www.internationalsportsimages.com/store_files/store_images/Men_USA/12-03-2004_Nike_Friendlies/USMNTYouth281.jpg
http://www.internationalsportsimages.com/store_files/store_images/Men_USA/12-03-2004_Nike_Friendlies/USMNTYouth325.jpg

[IMOX77]

Alston Fro

http://picsrv.ussoccer.com/?fif=/ussf/img_6_4271.jpg&obj=iip,1.0&wid=348&hei=348&bgc=12,44,86&rgn=0.09376,0,0.81248,0.610226552901024&cvt=jpeg

[Ronaldo's Idol]

I think the issue is not that the national teams are all caucasian rich kids (obviously not true), but that the vast majority of ODP participants in general, from the district to state levels especially, are rich white kids. At least they were when I was in ODP 6-7 years ago. I highly doubt things have changed that much.

ODP does a good job of picking players regardless of race or ethnicity. If anything, there is a bias toward latino or african american players, probably because many of them are better than their rich white counterparts.

The real issue is that the racial diversity of the national teams does not reflect the lack of diversity at the grassroots level. Not an easy problem to solve, because there just aren't that many african american teenagers who choose soccer.

[Seymour]

Here's a list of the players currently in residency in Bradenton and there ethnicity. Admitedly, this is based in part on seeing pictures of the players combined with their last names.

Over half of them are Latino and/or African American.

0-Diego Restrepo - not sure (haven’t seen a picture)
1-Bryant Rueckner - Caucasian
2-Michael Balogun – African American
3-Kevin Alston – African American
4-Eric Lichaj - Caucasian
5-Ofori Sarkodie – African American
6-Quavas Kirk – African American
7-Carlos Borja - Latino
8-Kyle Nakazawa - Asian
9-Preston Zimmerman – Caucasian
10-David Arvizu - Latino
11-Ryan Soroka - Caucasian
12-Eddie Ababio – African American
13-Blake Wagner – Caucasian
14-Amaechi Igwe – African American
15-Gabriel Farfan - Latino
16-Nik Besagno – Caucasian
17-Jeremy Hall – African American
18-Evan Newton – Caucasian
19-Michael Farfan - Latino
20-Eric Avila - Latino
21-Neven Subotic – Caucasian
22-Cesar Nunez - Latino
23-Anthony Ampaipitakwong - Asian
24-Joe Bendik – Caucasian
25-Anthony Wallace – African American
26-Richard Edgar – Caucasian
27-Jonathan Collier – African American
28-Josmer Altidore – African American
29-Michael Stephens – Caucasian
30-Ryan Peterman – Caucasian
31-Ernesto Mariscal - Latino
32-Hector Jimenez - Latino
33-Danny Ortega - Latino
34-Omar Gonzalez - Latino
35-Andrew Giallombardo – Caucasian
36-Bryan Arguez – African American and/or Latino
37-Victor Cortez - African American and/or Latino
38-Peri Marosevic – Caucasian
39-Joseph Sorrentino - not sure (haven’t seen a picture)
40-Brian Perk – Caucasian
41-Greg Eckhardt – Caucasian

One issue that I have not seen discussed is that putting aside the ethnicity of these kids, how many are either immigrants or children of immigrants? I am sterotyping here, but alot of the Latino players probably come from recent immigrant families, and Ofori Sarkodie, Eddie Ababio and Amaechi Igwe seem like African names (which I mention solely because large scale Latino and voluntary African immigration is a phenomenon of the last 30 years). It is also my understanding that Quavas Kirk, Neven Subotic and Peri Marosevic are either first or second generation Americans.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly have no problem with that and I shudder to think where our National teams would be without the contribution of first and second generation Americans. Ultimately, however, I think the more that we can draw from the broader cross section of society, the better off we will be. Hopefully this will not attract flames as it is intended purely as a discussion point (and should not be interpreted as a slam in any way). I think everyone will agree that we need first and second generation players on our teams. Based purely on demographics, you would expect them to compose a pretty significant chunk of the US teams (google says 12% of the US population is foreign born. If you add in second generation immigrants, the percentage would seem pretty significant.). I also know that first and second generation players are a common phenomenon on the teams of many soccer nations (and I think that of any nation, you would expect to see this on a US team). I just worry that we are still being carried by a smaller (but albeit, still fairly large) cross section of the US population and that the "soccer culture" everyone talks about is, at the elite level, really confined to a more limited subgroup.

Anyway, random thoughts only and feel free to tell me to shut the ********** up if inappropriate or irrelevant.

[Chowderhead]

And let it be said that the myth of the white suburban mafia is promulgated and perpetuated by the likes of Paul Gardner and the clowns in California who are too lazy to go find a tryout somewhere or whose loyalties lie elsewhere.

The idea that our lineups need the stamp of approval from multiculturalist social scientists who see the game as a utopian experiment in social engineering is starting to irritate.

Put the best eleven out there. If that means that it's eleven Eddie Johnsons, so be it. If that means that it's eleven Eddie Lewises, so be it.

But a lineup that includes a Ching, Bocanegra, Reyna, Mastroeni, Onyewu, Beasley, and Johnson really should shut the complainers up. And please don't give the Reyna and Mastro aren't real Hispanics crap.

[appoo]

And let it be said that the myth of the white suburban mafia is promulgated and perpetuated by the likes of Paul Gardner and the clowns in California who are too lazy to go find a tryout somewhere or whose loyalties lie elsewhere.

The idea that our lineups need the stamp of approval from multiculturalist social scientists who see the game as a utopian experiment in social engineering is starting to irritate.

Put the best eleven out there. If that means that it's eleven Eddie Johnsons, so be it. If that means that it's eleven Eddie Lewises, so be it.

But a lineup that includes a Ching, Bocanegra, Reyna, Mastroeni, Onyewu, Beasley, and Johnson really should shut the complainers up. And please don't give the Reyna and Mastro aren't real Hispanics crap.

I don't think anyone is accusing Political Correctness, I thin the point i sthat more and more non-affluent kids are finally making their way into the system

[appoo]

One issue that I have not seen discussed is that putting aside the ethnicity of these kids, how many are either immigrants or children of immigrants?


in a country where I doubt more 10% of the population can draw their family history more than 100 years into America I don't think this is a perinent question, no offense intended. this is America, a country OF immigrant FOR immigrants. Come to America, the land of oppurtunity and freedom.

consider:

White Caucasion people are the MINORTITY in Southern California, 53% of San Anotonio, TX is actually Hispanic. When you say "the more that we can draw from the broader cross section of society" I think its exactly what we're doing. I wouldn't be surprised to that find that the breakdown of our National Youth pool exactly mirrors that of our country in ethnicity and generation

[JohnR]

I think the issue is not that the national teams are all caucasian rich kids (obviously not true), but that the vast majority of ODP participants in general, from the district to state levels especially, are rich white kids.

Correct. The families of the wealthy white-collar suburban kids provide the ODP dollars that are spent disproportionately at the national level on African-American and Latino kids.

The ones who should be complaining are the rich white people. :p

[JohnR]

One issue that I have not seen discussed is that putting aside the ethnicity of these kids, how many are either immigrants or children of immigrants?

A lot.

It's pretty simple -- a kid gets a huge edge by being raised with a soccer-fanatic father. And there still are many more soccer-fanatic immigrant dads than American-born dads.

We dads don't get much credit, but even in the "street" countries like Brazil, when you read interviews with the players, many of them talk about how their dads worked with them on their games. Ronaldinho's dad was a fanatic for working with his boy when he was very young, ages 5 and 6. So that his kid was a (relatively) accomplished product at age 7, at which time he was accepted into Gremio's youth program.

At any rate, the profile of the typical top U.S. youth player is - a) Soccer-playing dad, or b) Top-of-the-charts athlete.

[jri]

I think its ridiculous, that for picture purposes, the photographer dragged 6 black/hispanic kids from the surroundings.......had them change in US Nat team gear...and then took the photograph. Cheerio and too-ta-loo..

Signed,
Paul Gardner

:)

[puddleduck]

I don't know enough about ODP to comment on whether or not they are pulling evenly from the various ethnic groups.

But, I do work for an economic development nonprofit and I would love to see someone put together a some Urban Leagues designed to tap the talent in the poorer neighborhoods while helping the kids stay off the streets. There would be three huge upsides a well run (and funded) Urban League:


The kids I see playing pick-up are good and I know there are potential stars that are being lost to drugs and crime.
Someone (be it MLS or the US Federation, or some new entity) could score some sweet PR with a well planned urban outreach league.
It would help some great kids living in really difficult circumstances


I know MLS isn't rolling in cash ... yet. But eventually they are going to have to step up and invest in communities. The NFL pumps millions into minority communities every year. It'll be a long time before soccer can be expected to make that kind of impact. But for the good of the sport, and our cities, they need to get started sooner or later.

Does anyone know what kind of infrastructure already exists to reach urban kids? Does MLS of the Fed already have urban outreach programs? Are there other players involved?

[superdave]

Here's a list of the players currently in residency in Bradenton and there ethnicity. Admitedly, this is based in part on seeing pictures of the players combined with their last names.

Over half of them are Latino and/or African American.

As I've pointed out before, the key to the US taking the next big step forward in soccer is to do a better job of exploiting the underrepresented white, non-Hispanic player.

[JohnR]

As I've pointed out before, the key to the US taking the next big step forward in soccer is to do a better job of exploiting the underrepresented white, non-Hispanic player.

Nah, they're represented. Their parents fund the system.

Actually, I'm serious. That's the tradeoff. In our state, where every single player who tries out at the two younger ages becomes an official "ODP team member," the State swaps the ODP brand for $1200. Some of the parents know that the whole thing is a bit of a con, others are blissfully, blessedly, hopelessly ignorant, encouraged no doubt by the pablum that "at this age, you never can tell."

But either way, scores of parents pay $1200 for kids who can barely stay on their feet while trapping a ball, and who will be gone the second that a real talent identification program begins. And while maybe 50% of the national ODP pool is white, 90%+ of these early adopters are.

That's the irony -- people talk about the white suburbanites owning ODP, but the reality is that they're being (gently) used.

[m vann]

This country is a melting pot and I'm always amazed at the diversity we have inside US Soccer. Our teams have to be the most diverse in the world. Expanded cultures and multiple diversities are always needed to sell the game in some areas and I believe US soccer and MLS has this on their agenda. Diversity is what makes soccer, the world's game.

[Sandon Mibut]

Correct. The families of the wealthy white-collar suburban kids provide the ODP dollars that are spent disproportionately at the national level on African-American and Latino kids.

The ones who should be complaining are the rich white people. :pYou must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JohnR again.

Now that's comedy, ladies and gents!