American coaches ruin players imagination.

[Keep parents away]

In the April 12th Boston Globe, Frank Dell'Apa writes that Dempsey vs Colombus "...did a Cuauhtemina leap between two defenders, several step overs...These are pickup game moves, improvisational, instinctive. Organized programs often coach such tendacies out of players..."

"They like to keep the ball moving, Dempsey said of national team practices. If you lose the ball they will get mad at you. But it all depends on if you are in the attacking third, the defensive third, or the middle third of the field."

Dell'Apa is exactly right. Organized programs do coach improvisational moves out of kids. Moreover, this is demonstrated by the lack of imagination in American players.

The USA national team has very good supporting players all across the field but which national team player actually beats defenders on the dribble.(The only one I can think of is 15 years old.)

Who's to blame? I say its the system.

[JohnR]

"They like to keep the ball moving, Dempsey said of national team practices. If you lose the ball they will get mad at you. But it all depends on if you are in the attacking third, the defensive third, or the middle third of the field."

That sounds like pretty sensible coaching to me. At any age.

Organized programs do coach improvisational moves out of kids

Odd. My kid is 5 years into his competitive soccer career, at two clubs and for half a dozen coaches, and I can't ever remember a coach telling him not to use a move. I also can't ever remember where he was chided for attacking via the dribble in a 1 vs. 1 situation in the offensive half of the field. However, I certainly remember him being ripped for being too passive, and for passing the ball rather than taking on the defender.

Seems like every team we play has plenty of kids who are happy & eager to attack off the dribble. We travelled 2000 miles to California for a tournament last summer, and damned if those kids didn't dribble even more. It was a show-off fest.

Look, I agree with you, we don't seem to have a lot of Arjen Robbens in our national team pool, but I'm having trouble reconciling that fact with what I see at the youth level. Maybe U12 is too young. Maybe they get this beaten out of them at an older age.

[DutchFootballRulez]

It seems like its beaten out of them at a later age. I think it depends on the style of play, we don't use a No.10 whom always sees the ball, yeah Donovan this, Reyna that, but that's not what I mean, a true maestro. I'm not sure if that can be coached or even scouted in the youth levels.

[Keep parents away]

JohnR, why don't we have players that can beat people ? What's another reason?

[TOTC]

It's true; we need to have coaches who focus less on structure and more on flow, skill, and improvisation. A coach who allows his/her players to "mess around" before or after practice, and does not stop creativity, will allow players to blossom in ways they never imagine.

Look what's happening in the NBA, for example. Slow-down, corporate basketball looking for "a good shot" instead of the exciting run-and-gun days of Showtime and the Celtic break.

[JohnR]

JohnR, why don't we have players that can beat people ? What's another reason?

I don't know.

One theory might be that we're not coached to do so. My kid is allowed to use 1 vs. 1 moves. But nobody teaches him this stuff. He's supposed to figure it out on his own. Makes sense in Brazil or Mexico, but lemme tell ya, there ain't no street-soccer role models in our neighborhood.

What do they do in Europe? Did Robben, Ronaldo et al have coaches work with them on their 1 vs. 1 skills, in addition to street play? I suspect that they did.

Another theory is as offered above, that the kids get the dribbling beaten out of them at an older age than what I am familiar with, which is up to about U13.

A 3rd theory might be that only cultures with street soccer can have great dribblers.

Of course there are many other possible theories.

Of the three I advanced, I don't know if I believe any of them. I am particularly skeptical of #3, because from what I understand street soccer is pretty much dead in Holland these days but they keep putting out technical, creative players.

[Keep parents away]

A 3rd theory might be that only cultures with street soccer can have great dribblers.

I think that this theory is more true than not. I'm not saying that all players have to grow up playing street ball to have moves but I think it helps. However, if what you say about Holland is true, then I'd say we simply need to hire whoever runs Ajax and PSV's programs to run the USSFs.

However, I do think that street ball is what is missing from our future growth as a soccer nation. Until kids are playing in the streets I think that the USA national team will be on the par with the Swedens, Polands and Englands of the world instead of the Argentinas and Brazils.

[Indiana Jones]

I have seen a situation where an excellent player, the defensive midfielder, was dropped by a varsity coach when he carried the ball forward and attacked defenders at the top of the box for a shot on goal. For the coach he was "out-of-position" ! The "coach" didnt understand the game well enough to coach the other kids to fill in when a player moved upfield in attack. I'll guarantee you this guy had never heard of Roberto Carlos....

[russ]

Look what's happening in the NBA, for example. Slow-down, corporate basketball looking for "a good shot" instead of the exciting run-and-gun days of Showtime and the Celtic break.
Awful example,sorry.The main failure of modern NBA offense is that so few players are fundamentally sound at passing and mid-range jump shots,two basic offensive skills.They need more coaching,rather than the playground and high school acclaim they receive.

[JJTrudeau]

A 3rd theory might be that only cultures with street soccer can have great dribblers.

I think that this theory is more true than not. I'm not saying that all players have to grow up playing street ball to have moves but I think it helps. However, if what you say about Holland is true, then I'd say we simply need to hire whoever runs Ajax and PSV's programs to run the USSFs.

However, I do think that street ball is what is missing from our future growth as a soccer nation. Until kids are playing in the streets I think that the USA national team will be on the par with the Swedens, Polands and Englands of the world instead of the Argentinas and Brazils.

...and there you have it! kids in this country need gear and a field to play. very few, if any, kids play pick up games. it is a suburban game that most are forced to play by their parents. therefore the love and desire to play anytime is not there. if they love the game they will develop these skills in street games that they chose to play.

[Adam Zebrowski]

I'd agree with the cultural aspect of kids who play soccer are generally white middle class suburbanites, who in general lead more structured, SUPERVISED lives than kids living in an inner city ghetto...


so kids in the city, bouncing a ball, are more like to experiment because there's NO one telling them to do it this way or that way....

so there's a more creative aspect, which can be good and can be bad...

the key is the willingness to experiment, without the CONSEQUENCES of some authority figure denoucing the experiment and fail as being bad...

personally, I think you go back to when kids are 1 and 2 and 3, and how they learn to process learning.....

and this reflects back to cultural heritage and how different cultures process this learning mechanism

[scaryice]

The USA national team has very good supporting players all across the field but which national team player actually beats defenders on the dribble.(The only one I can think of is 15 years old.)

Beasley and Donovan are pretty good at it, and I think Johnson will be.

[JohnR]

I'd agree with the cultural aspect of kids who play soccer are generally white middle class suburbanites, who in general lead more structured, SUPERVISED lives than kids living in an inner city ghetto...

Yes, but again as I understand it Holland is something a white middle class suburb disguised as a country, and there are plenty of fancy-foot Dutch players. I'm happy to be told otherwise, but I have been informed by more than one Dutchman that the notion of little Dutch kids playing hours of street soccer is a 1950s thing, that the country's sports like U.S. sports have become wealthy, organized, & structured.

[RichardL]

I'd agree with the cultural aspect of kids who play soccer are generally white middle class suburbanites, who in general lead more structured, SUPERVISED lives than kids living in an inner city ghetto...


so kids in the city, bouncing a ball, are more like to experiment because there's NO one telling them to do it this way or that way....

so there's a more creative aspect, which can be good and can be bad...

the key is the willingness to experiment, without the CONSEQUENCES of some authority figure denoucing the experiment and fail as being bad...

personally, I think you go back to when kids are 1 and 2 and 3, and how they learn to process learning.....

and this reflects back to cultural heritage and how different cultures process this learning mechanism
It is kind of simplistic, and hard to say how much truth there is in it leading to different styles of players, but the fact is when you are playing on the street or in the school playground at lunch-break you aren't really thinking about teamwork, you are thinking about snatching a few seconds of glory for yourself. To do that you usually need to be able to beat a player. It is the sort of thing that comes (or never comes as the case may be) through just trying things out, picking up different techniques. Sure you can teach someone to dribble round some cones, and that'll improve their technique and make them technically equipped to do it, but without that experience of trying to beat players several thousand times through countless games in childhood it's going to be harder to know what to do.

On the other hand, at international level, just how many good dribblers are there? It's not as if all the top nations have several they can call on.

[Adam Zebrowski]

I think we'll agree the dutch are a bit better teaching the creative aspects of the game...

perhaps, it's the drug and sex laws whicg help a bit...

so to improve the game here in the states, BIGSOCCER can support more liberal drug and sex here........all for the sake of better soccer!!

[Keep parents away]

Beasley and Donovan are pretty good at it, and I think Johnson will be.

I love Beasley. He's my favorite player. However, he does not really beat players with the dribble. He runs by them using his speed. And he has some innate ability to gather the ball after he knocks it off a defender's shin. It is amazing.

Landon. I also enjoy watching him play but he cruises around the field in 1st gear until he makes the perfect run where he is feed the ball and he scores. He rarely tries to beat people. I think he can but he does not try often.

Both are excellent players but neither are dribbling kings.

[Keep parents away]

On the other hand, at international level, just how many good dribblers are there? It's not as if all the top nations have several they can call on.

Brazil, Holland and Argentina are full of them. They actually have more than they can use. And these are the teams we will have to beat to get to the upper echelon.

[Ray Luca]

In the April 12th Boston Globe, Frank Dell'Apa writes that Dempsey vs Colombus "...did a Cuauhtemina leap between two defenders, several step overs...These are pickup game moves, improvisational, instinctive. Organized programs often coach such tendacies out of players..."

"They like to keep the ball moving, Dempsey said of national team practices. If you lose the ball they will get mad at you. But it all depends on if you are in the attacking third, the defensive third, or the middle third of the field."

Ever see a back take on a defender in the defensive third anymore? Womens game they never encourage them to do that. Mens game they did at one time not anymore. Some old coaches did encourage backs to take on players why? It creates space in the midfield. So you don't have to play Bora Ball all the time.

"Dell'Apa is exactly right. Organized programs do coach improvisational moves out of kids. Moreover, this is demonstrated by the lack of imagination in American players. "

"The USA national team has very good supporting players all across the field but which national team player actually beats defenders on the dribble.(The only one I can think of is 15 years old.)"

Who's to blame? I say its the system.

I think players who can beat players do take on players in 1v 1 situations. I think we are terrible with isolating players 1 v 1 so they can take on players.

Ramos loved to take on players and with his first step speed could beat anyone who was not looking to hurt him. That is the rub you beat the first defender the second is looking to stop you through the foul.

Beat a player 1 v 1 creates space for team mates. Coaches today want other player movement to creat space for team mates.

At the youth level kids with no moves iot is still hard to make teams in a lot of tryouts.

It is true coaches can coach out creativity from the player. They want high percentage, creativety is low percentage. Thing is high creativety can win you games but is low percentage. The guy the mid from DC United rwetired now forget his name was very creative but low percentage.

My own feeling is that Claudio Reyna had some of his creatively that he had coached out of him by lets say his national team coaches. Just my oppionion.

I thought mathis was very creative in all areas of the game until that ACL happened.

I thought Donovan was pretty creative until he moved to the inside position with the National team. I just feel someone is trying to mess with his game guess who?

So I would agree.

[Ray Luca]

I have seen a situation where an excellent player, the defensive midfielder, was dropped by a varsity coach when he carried the ball forward and attacked defenders at the top of the box for a shot on goal. For the coach he was "out-of-position" ! The "coach" didnt understand the game well enough to coach the other kids to fill in when a player moved upfield in attack. I'll guarantee you this guy had never heard of Roberto Carlos....

What out of position? He was attacking space and it does not matter who is attacking space as long as some is bad coach. What should happen is when you move up and pass someone that someone fills in the space you left so you can attack. So you are supported and are leaving no holes for the oponent to attack if you lose the ball.

[russ]

I love Beasley. He's my favorite player. However, he does not really beat players with the dribble. He runs by them using his speed. And he has some innate ability to gather the ball after he knocks it off a defender's shin. It is amazing.


Actually,quite a few South American players can do that-it's not really an accident when it happens.