This is the thread for all threads about Freddy starting/not starting!

[Ronaldo's Idol]

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/dcu/stats/index.jsp?club=dcu&year=2004

Freddy Adu:

Games played - 30 (out of 30)
Games started - 14 (out of 30)
Minutes played - 1440 (out of 2700)

I guess the only guy that Nowak trusts is Brian Carroll, because he's the only guy on the squad who started every game last season.



I have inserted my foot in my mouth...sorry I can't believe I forgot that Freddy did get some starts. I actually saw one of them live vs. SJ. Did Freddy ever get to play a full 90?

Regardless, I don't think my point is lost. Nowak still remains reluctant to use Freddy, and I have yet to hear someone truly believe that Guppy is more effective than Freddy on the left wing (which surprises me). Maybe Nowak will shut me up and start Freddy on Saturday, but I'm betting not.

[MikeLastort2]

I'm by no means saying Nowak is a bad coach, but I am critisizing his choices on Freddy, specifically. I never said he was a bad coach. I did say that he remains unproven, though. He led DC to a .500 season last year, but went on a run in the playoffs.

I think Nowak deserves major credit for giving Eskandarian time, once he earned it. But I feel like in order to win a starting spot over Cerritos, Eskandarian had to score goals at a superhuman pace, which he did, while coming on a sub in the early part of the season.

Adu is not a poacher like Eskandarian, so he isn't going to be able to put up hard statistics like the number of early goals Esky scored, where the public can look at the number and then say to Nowak, what the hell are you thinking not starting this kid?

With Adu he is best in Amid, and playmaking and dribbling are his forte. Its tougher to convince someone who is very biased against you that you deserve their confidence if you don't have huge numbers to support your argument. That said, Esky deserved to start over Adu last year, hell Esky deserved to start over almost anyone in the league. A tough situation for Adu, really, as Nowak basically gave the job to Moreno no questions asked, and made Cerritos, Esky, and Adu battle for the other forward spot, and it just so happend that Adu's competition was the best in the league. Nowak should recognize that and make room for Adu.

10 goals in a season is a "superhuman" pace? What did that make Roy Lassiter?

[Th4119]

10 goals in a season is a "superhuman" pace? What did that make Roy Lassiter?

A God among men.

How else could he be so fast with 14 necklaces on?

[elconejito]

Look, we can solve this question right now if we just use Freddy's and Guppy's +/- ratio to determine who is the better starter....

[Ronaldo's Idol]

You point out that Adu is best as an A-mid (which is correct)...then you say he is fighting for time with Eskandarian/Cerritos and Moreno who are all forwards.....so what is it? Is he fighting for time with Gomez...Guppy..Quaranta...or the forward line? Basically you just want to see Adu on the field without concern of our lineup, our defensive responsibilities, or responsibilities to the fans to put a winning team on the field. This is a United board and above everythign else we want to see our team hoist championship trophies. Whether or not freddy starting or coming off the bench helps us accomplish this task is secondary to me and probably every other DC United fan.


No I understand your point but I think you are getting it mixed up a bit. At the beginning of last year Freddy was competing for a spot up top (because Stewart was in town still).

This year that is not the case and the place that Freddy can help the team most is at left mid, in place of Guppy. This is because Esky is proven, and Gomez is also. No need to replace DC's top players with Freddy. Pull the weakest one, Guppy, and replace him with Freddy to improve the team as a whole.

If Guppy was better and more effective than Adu, then I don't see Adu breaking into the lineup because Gros, Olsen, Gomez, Esky, and Moreno are all more effective at the moment.

[Th4119]

Look, we can solve this question right now if we just use Freddy's and Guppy's +/- ratio to determine who is the better starter....

Only if you throw in when Ryan Nelsen is on the pitch.

[Bootsy Collins]

Also, I bet Nowak started off the bat or nearly (though I don't actually know facts on this), and didn't have a coach that benched him for over a year and never gave him a single chance to start a game.

Which I wouldn't think would apply, since Freddy started a number of games last season.



4) In many cases they were garbage minutes, and when the chips were down in the playoffs, he didn't see the field (in the semi?)

This is completely wrong. Out of DC's four playoff matches, he "saw the field" in three of them. He didn't play in the first playoff match, the away leg against the Metros, because of *injury* -- he'd been literally dumped vertically onto his head by fsckin' Craig Ziadie the weekend before. He notched an assist against the Metros at home. In the Eastern Conference Championship (what you're referring to as the "semi"), he came on in the 69th minute, ended up playing for 51 minutes as a result (two 15 minute overtimes). He came on in the 65th minute at the MLS cup when we were a man down, defending a one goal lead, and defense was a priority. If you think that's "garbage minutes" . . .


6) No, Nowak doesn't trust Freddy, that is why he doesn't start him.
Given the above, it's very hard not to see you as trolling.

[Ronaldo's Idol]

10 goals in a season is a "superhuman" pace? What did that make Roy Lassiter?


Check the #goals/minutes played for the first half or quarter of the season. That is where the superhuman pace is apparent.

[MikeLastort2]

I have inserted my foot in my mouth...

That's not the only thing you've got inserted in a place it doesn't belong. I'm thinking along the lines of head and ass here.


sorry I can't believe I forgot that Freddy did get some starts.

14 out of 30 is "some?" OK, whatever.

I actually saw one of them live vs. SJ. Did Freddy ever get to play a full 90?

Yes.

Regardless, I don't think my point is lost.

What point?


Nowak still remains reluctant to use Freddy, and I have yet to hear someone truly believe that Guppy is more effective than Freddy on the left wing (which surprises me).

Reluctant to use Freddy. During the '04 regular season, Adu played 1440 minutes out of 2700. That's about 53% of all available minutes. How the hell is that reluctance?

And didn't you just get through telling us that Adu is an attacking midfielder? Why do you want him to play out of position on the wing?

Maybe Nowak will shut me up and start Freddy on Saturday, but I'm betting not.

If Freddy starts, will you go away and never come back? I'm betting not.

[Ronaldo's Idol]

Which I wouldn't think would apply, since Freddy started a number of games last season.



This is completely wrong. Out of DC's four playoff matches, he "saw the field" in three of them. He didn't play in the first playoff match, the away leg against the Metros, because of *injury* -- he'd been literally dumped vertically onto his head by fsckin' Craig Ziadie the weekend before. He notched an assist against the Metros at home. In the Eastern Conference Championship (what you're referring to as the "semi"), he came on in the 69th minute, ended up playing for 51 minutes as a result (two 15 minute overtimes). He came on in the 65th minute at the MLS cup when we were a man down, defending a one goal lead, and defense was a priority. If you think that's "garbage minutes" . . .


Given the above, it's very hard not to see you as trolling.


Thanks for correcting me on the playoff situation, my memory has abandoned me today. I agree, those are not garbage minutes.

And yeah, that falling on his head was pretty nasty.

[MikeLastort2]

Check the #goals/minutes played for the first half or quarter of the season. That is where the superhuman pace is apparent.

So he was superhuman for a while, then I guess he sucked.

Again, why the hell are you here? You know NOTHING about DC United.

[Ronaldo's Idol]

14 out of 30 is "some?" OK, whatever.



Yes.



What point?




Reluctant to use Freddy. During the '04 regular season, Adu played 1440 minutes out of 2700. That's about 53% of all available minutes. How the hell is that reluctance?

And didn't you just get through telling us that Adu is an attacking midfielder? Why do you want him to play out of position on the wing?



If Freddy starts, will you go away and never come back? I'm betting not.


Starting fewer than half the games means Nowak is reluctant to play him. And yes, if either Freddy wins and holds a starting spot, or if Guppy or someone else legitimately proves they are more effective than Freddy, I will never worry about the notion that Nowak isn't being completely fair with Freddy. Promis.

[Ronaldo's Idol]

So he was superhuman for a while, then I guess he sucked.


Well, considering that the time he was competing with Adu for a starting spot exactly coincides with the "superhuman" scoring rate of Esky, it is very relevant.

Anyways, I think I'm done here, it is not being productive. Sorry.

[doctorjim]

QUOTE]



I would agree that Freddy would be more effective offensively that Guppy, but he hasn't shown a commitment to playing defensively or even staying in position while he has been played on the wing.

[/QUOTE]

Absolute nonsense. Freddy is not the best defensive player in the world, but anyone who watched him last year would not question his commitment to doing whatever the team needed him to do. If the kid has anything, it is a huge heart and he puts on the line for the team in every game.

[jason1551]

Let me get this straight:

Adu comes on as a sub, has a few moments of brilliance against players that have been on the field for over sixty minutes, and this deserves a start? His performance as a sub does not indicate that he should be a starter. If anything, it shows that he isn't ready to start because he hasn't produced on the field. I'm all for development, but he is earning the playing time he deserves and still needs to be brought along slowly. now, if he were putting up goals and assists like crazy, you might have a case, but he isn't.

As of right now, Nowak believes Guppy to be the starter on the left wing, and then tactically adjusts when he has to sub him out (i.e. Gros to the left, Q1 to the right). Freddy doesn't enter into this equation unless either player is injured or both have to be subbed out. That means Adu is competing with Gomez in midfield and Moreno for withdrawn forward. Unless Gomez or Moreno get injured or have a dip in form, Adu is going to have to accept his role as a utility man, filling in when needed. That not's a knock against him, but just an example of how competitive this lineup is. For God's sake, we haven't mentioned the fact that Kovalenko will be back in less than a month, and we'll have at least three players (Kovalenko, Q1, and Simms, if not Adu by the end of the season) capable of starting for most teams in MLS. Adu is the least of our worries for right now. He knows where and when he'll get playing time and needs only to improve and show that he is capable of more playing time. When he does that, then he'll prove that he should be a starter.

[BBBulldog]

club > player

[Knave]

I often think we on this board should banish all Freddy Adu specific threads not started by a DC United supporter to the MLS Fans board.

[Bootsy Collins]

I often think we on this board should banish all Freddy Adu specific threads not started by a DC United supporter to the MLS Fans board.
I'll speak a bit of heresy (at least as far as most American fans are concerned) and say that I don't get as excited about Freddy as I do about several other players for United anyway. It's not that I don't think he's very talented (he is) or that he has tons of potential (of course he does). It's just that when he starts getting really good, that's when he's going to leave. When I'm wearing my USMNT supporter cap, sure, I have high hopes for Freddy. But when I'm wearing my DC United supporter cap, it's more difficult for me to get fired up about him when I know he's only gonna be here for a little while.

When does his contract with MLS end? One year beforehand is probably the latest he'll still be here.

[MikeLastort2]

I often think we on this board should banish all Freddy Adu specific threads not started by a DC United supporter to the MLS Fans board.

I like that idea. A lot.

I'm trying to remember if there's ever been a Fredd Adu thread here started by someone who is not a Unite fan that was worthwhile, and I'm drawing a blank.

[MLSNHTOWN]

I like that idea. A lot.

I'm trying to remember if there's ever been a Fredd Adu thread here started by someone who is not a Unite fan that was worthwhile, and I'm drawing a blank.

I didn't start the thread but I chipped in my .02 about the situation. Just because you guys are DCU fans doesn't mean that others do not watch a lot of DCU games. Lets face it they are on TV alot b/c of Adu primarily last year and this year because they are defending champs and in the CCC. So, it is your boards and do with them what you want with regards to placing threads wherever. I am sure some uber DCU fan is the moderator and can take care of this.

I think the discussion is worth having for this reason. I completely agree with everyone that Freddy was completely not ready to start last year and Gomez was a better player. That being said (and even you hardcore DCU fans have to admit) Freddy progressed as the year went on. His off the ball runs were smarter. His interactions with his teammates were better. He stopped trying to play the near impossible pass all the time and opted for safer passes at times and then took a chance when advantageous. He got better, but he still was weak. He was easily pushed off the ball at times and "manhandled" in the middle of the pitch. He spent more time on the wings at times last year to compensate.

In the offseason he added 15 lbs and worked (allegedly) very hard to improve his upper body strength. The result (in the limited minutes we have seen thus far ...v DCU and v. Pumas) is that Freddy appears stronger on the ball. So his major negative may not longer exist. I don't know if that makes him "better" than Gomez but it definitely justifies the discussion based on his performance as a sub these last two games.

Just my .02. Sorry if we non DCU fans are just wasting your time with this discussion.