CounterAttacking as a full-time strategy?

[sbuck143]

After using it in several games, I am becoming a fan of the counter-attack. But I have questions that so far I haven't found answered in any HT fan site or forum. Here goes:

1) I've seen it said that CA "gives up the midfield" to your opponent. I've also seen it said that it only reduces your midfield rating by 7%. Which is it?

2) Related to number 1, if my midfield rating is still higher than my opponents after the 7% drop, is CA tactic nullified for the whole match or does it still kick in during his scoring chances?

What I'm getting at is this: It appears to me that CA while you have midfield strength over your opponent is a no-lose situation. If you win possession on a scoring chance then your midfield strength has helped you. If you lose possession - which happens even when you are stronger midfield wise than your opponent - then the CA will kick in if he misses his attack, and give you a chance to score immediately, right?

So if you have a strong D relative to his Offense, and a strong midfield, then you are maximizing the number of scoring chances you will get in a game. You'll get all the ones you win from the midfield battle and all the ones you get from stopping his attacks.

So that brings me to biggest question of all: how many CA's could you see a game? I'm not stupid enough to think it is every attack you turn away, but is it something like 1 a game? 2 a game?

Thanks for your help in advance.
Scott

[Danks81]

I know jack about counter attacking, but this friend of mine (a scoring trainer) runs it quite regularly with a 4-3-3.

F.C. Durden (71620)

[junjunforever]

After using it in several games, I am becoming a fan of the counter-attack. But I have questions that so far I haven't found answered in any HT fan site or forum. Here goes:

1) I've seen it said that CA "gives up the midfield" to your opponent. I've also seen it said that it only reduces your midfield rating by 7%. Which is it?

2) Related to number 1, if my midfield rating is still higher than my opponents after the 7% drop, is CA tactic nullified for the whole match or does it still kick in during his scoring chances?

What I'm getting at is this: It appears to me that CA while you have midfield strength over your opponent is a no-lose situation. If you win possession on a scoring chance then your midfield strength has helped you. If you lose possession - which happens even when you are stronger midfield wise than your opponent - then the CA will kick in if he misses his attack, and give you a chance to score immediately, right?

So if you have a strong D relative to his Offense, and a strong midfield, then you are maximizing the number of scoring chances you will get in a game. You'll get all the ones you win from the midfield battle and all the ones you get from stopping his attacks.

So that brings me to biggest question of all: how many CA's could you see a game? I'm not stupid enough to think it is every attack you turn away, but is it something like 1 a game? 2 a game?

Thanks for your help in advance.
Scott

i think its rare to see any more than 3 a match.

[kuhnscoot]

i think its rare to see any more than 3 a match.

I think that is the number of CA chances you can have, I don't think you can have more then 3. With a CA it is good if you lose possession, because that can help your CA more, because a counterattack is when you conter the attack of the other team meaning that you get the ball away and go the other way quickly, so it'd be good if you lost possession while doing a CA. I don't know what happens if you run it and win possession though. I don't know about it being very useful for a lot of scoring trainers, I see it used more often for defensive trainers.

[nickfox45]

After using it in several games, I am becoming a fan of the counter-attack. But I have questions that so far I haven't found answered in any HT fan site or forum. Here goes:

1) I've seen it said that CA "gives up the midfield" to your opponent. I've also seen it said that it only reduces your midfield rating by 7%. Which is it?

2) Related to number 1, if my midfield rating is still higher than my opponents after the 7% drop, is CA tactic nullified for the whole match or does it still kick in during his scoring chances?

What I'm getting at is this: It appears to me that CA while you have midfield strength over your opponent is a no-lose situation. If you win possession on a scoring chance then your midfield strength has helped you. If you lose possession - which happens even when you are stronger midfield wise than your opponent - then the CA will kick in if he misses his attack, and give you a chance to score immediately, right?

So if you have a strong D relative to his Offense, and a strong midfield, then you are maximizing the number of scoring chances you will get in a game. You'll get all the ones you win from the midfield battle and all the ones you get from stopping his attacks.

So that brings me to biggest question of all: how many CA's could you see a game? I'm not stupid enough to think it is every attack you turn away, but is it something like 1 a game? 2 a game?

Thanks for your help in advance.
Scott

1) ive heard its 7% as well, im not sure if anyone knows for sure, but this is a pretty well accepted number.

2) only the team losing midfield will gain an advantage from using the CA tactic, although any team losing the midfield can get a counterattack without using the tactic, although that is very rare.

i think you need a pretty good CA rating, maybe formidable or above, to count on getting them on a regular basis. a guy in my series used to get magnificent CA ratings, and he'd almost always get 1, occasionally get 2, and rarely get 3 when we played. hope this helps

[Pal11]

The percentage of midfield you lose is in fact 7% (that's in the rules and down from 10% a couple seasons ago). If you win the midfield, then the tactic is completely useless (of course, there's always a benefit to winning midfield even if your CA doesn't work). However, either team always has a chance at generating a special event CA, whether they win or lose the midfield.

There have been a couple games where one team has had 4 CA chances (don't have links to them; they came up in the Defense Trainers conference), but most people think that those were 3 tactic related chances and one SE CA.

As a defense trainer who is bringing in trainees with decent passing from here on out, I don't plan to use CA as a full-time strategy. Rather, I'm looking to maximize my chances to score (by increasing the chance for a SE CA). Also, I feel like playing CA as opposed to pressing in games where you're going to lose anyway at least give you a better shot to stay in the match.

[nickfox45]

The percentage of midfield you lose is in fact 7% (that's in the rules and down from 10% a couple seasons ago). If you win the midfield, then the tactic is completely useless (of course, there's always a benefit to winning midfield even if your CA doesn't work). However, either team always has a chance at generating a special event CA, whether they win or lose the midfield.

There have been a couple games where one team has had 4 CA chances (don't have links to them; they came up in the Defense Trainers conference), but most people think that those were 3 tactic related chances and one SE CA.

As a defense trainer who is bringing in trainees with decent passing from here on out, I don't plan to use CA as a full-time strategy. Rather, I'm looking to maximize my chances to score (by increasing the chance for a SE CA). Also, I feel like playing CA as opposed to pressing in games where you're going to lose anyway at least give you a better shot to stay in the match.

i agree with that bit about pressing vs CA. CA seems to give you a chance to get a lucky win, while the best you can hope for with pressing is a tie, and it usually only keeps the score down.

[ur_land]

Also, I feel like playing CA as opposed to pressing in games where you're going to lose anyway at least give you a better shot to stay in the match.

So that's why you always counterattack against me. ;)

I would say, however, that if your team does not have good passing, a strong defense, and/or a strong offense pressing might be a better option that coounterattacking (especially if you have great stamina and some powerful players). Without those three conditions, it is unlikely that you'll get a CA chance, and all you'll have done is give you opponent even more of an advantage. At least with pressing you'll stop a few chances and possible cut down on the goal differential.

[sbuck143]

Thanks for all the responses.

For the record, I am currently keeper skill-trading for the rest of this season to get my new club on good financial footing, and then plan to start up a defense training regiment after that.

I was lucky enough to start out with a good defense right off the bat, and my CA skill is excellent when I run a 5-3-2. My midfield has been upgraded with older temp guys and my forward situation is decent. I picked up a team that was 3rd in my division, and have so far held my own, beating the last place team twice and losing to the first place team 2-1. My next match is the #1 team again and I'm gunning for him. :)

[Craig P]

After using it in several games, I am becoming a fan of the counter-attack. But I have questions that so far I haven't found answered in any HT fan site or forum. Here goes:

1) I've seen it said that CA "gives up the midfield" to your opponent. I've also seen it said that it only reduces your midfield rating by 7%. Which is it?

2) Related to number 1, if my midfield rating is still higher than my opponents after the 7% drop, is CA tactic nullified for the whole match or does it still kick in during his scoring chances?In general, because you can only get CA chances if you are losing the midfield at the time of the opponent chance (and it is checked at the time IIRC), a team that plays CA is either conceding the midfield outright or expecting to lose it. The 7% penalty to your midfield rating (note - NOT a 7% penalty to possession, probably closer to 3-4% in most cases and less as you lose midfield by more) is included to enforce a risk-reward decision so that CAing isn't a no-brainer.

What I'm getting at is this: It appears to me that CA while you have midfield strength over your opponent is a no-lose situation. If you win possession on a scoring chance then your midfield strength has helped you. If you lose possession - which happens even when you are stronger midfield wise than your opponent - then the CA will kick in if he misses his attack, and give you a chance to score immediately, right?I'm not sure why you would think that a tactic that only works when you lose midfield would work for any opponent chance. When they talk about "lose possession", they mean, "lose in percent possession". The way the Hattrick engine is believed to work, there is never any actual possession of the ball per se, rather, the engine decides it's time for a scoring chance and uses relative possession to allocate it. And note that the decision on whether the CAing will work happens before you take the penalty for playing CA, so it's possible to narrowly lose the midfield but at the same time not get any CA chances from CAing.

Therefore, CA is certainly never a no-lose situation. If you CA when you are going to win midfield, you get no CA chances plus you get a 7% penalty to your midfield rating. So, you always have to decide if the midfield penalty is worth it. IN GENERAL, if you know you are going to lose midfield, then it is a good decision to counterattack (someone ran numbers on generation of CA chances vs. CA skill). However, also in general, it is NEVER a good idea to concede additional possession while CAing, because your chances of getting a CA chance are not as good as the chances that the possession would have generated a normal chance.

So that brings me to biggest question of all: how many CA's could you see a game? I'm not stupid enough to think it is every attack you turn away, but is it something like 1 a game? 2 a game?My CA rating isn't all that good, but I sometimes use it when I'm expecting to lose midfield. I've had one game where I had two CA chances, the rest had none.