Can anyone beat Brazil in ’06? - Part I [R]

[OrlandoSPUR]

I am loosing respect to any Brit who claims the 2002 Brazil win is a fluke. They kicked your behind fare and square.
Now shutup and makeup for it. Anything short of the trophy for Englad is a big failure. You've been shooting blanks for eternity. Show us something.

Agreed with the blanks bit, England need at least to get to the final to be seen as anything but failure. Not sure if this will happen though, we seem to f it up often, or go out on PK's.

[aloisius]

Brazil are way off being as impressive in-play as they are on paper.



They’re much more impressive than they were in the previous qualifiers. They’re not with their forth coach in 2 years like they were before 2002. , they in a very comfortable position and have the chance to use the rest of qualifying to find what their best 11 and most adequate formation is without the pressure of not qualifying.





Were supposed to win the WC in '02 and instead found themselves going home at the group stage. In '02 they had the best squad on paper for my money and once again showed that the tail of the tape cannot always be relied upon.



Oh come on Argentina, weren’t that great in 2002. They blitzed SA qualifying with high paced, high pressing game and then run into two teams that could match them for speed and had nothing left. Bielsa totally deviated from the tradition of his country and paid for it.

[Century's Best]

Noooooo!!!! Wrong again!!!!!!!
Ronaldinho did not do it in 2002 and he will not do it in 2006 either because he does not like it rough. He'll still the show against the "soft" teams like the dutch, the portuguese, the zcech, (and of course the costarricans) but when he faces the germans, the english or the uruguayans he'll dissappear from the game like he always does. Ronaldo and Rivaldo stole the show in 2002 because they're players that get better when the going gets rough. Plus, the verde-amarelha "weighs" a lot more than the Barcelona jersey.
The brazilian player to watch will be Adriano without a doubt. Besides, Ronaldo will be about 320 pounds by 2006.

Guri,

Ronaldinho was the catalyst for my team's victory over England in the quarterfinals. His run through the midfield, which left Ashley Cole looking like a staggering drunkard, changed the entire game. His free kick goal was timely and precious, but the momentum swung in our favor when he passed the football to Rivaldo.

I said he stands as a very potential superstar for next year.

In any case, Adriano will probably help us a lot next year... and Ronaldo? Ha, I doubt it. he seems to be coming back to shape as evidenced in the latest Spanish premiership fixture.

[Century's Best]

Please, that is a load of shite a Friendly versus the US is a warm up and not true competition. Sven will probably play two different teams each half as he tends to do. Although, if the US does win I would love to see someone eat their socks, please put that on BS.

Seriously the Brazilian Fans have the right to think they are unbeatable, however if it was not for a fluke free kick in '02, yes that is right fluke, Seaman was off his line with the fairies somewhere. That game may have been a different story. All that of course in the past, fairplay to another world cup.

But '06 is a different story, if Brazil sit back and let England come at them they will lose no doubt. Our midfield and defence are solid that will be able to back track on your counter attacks. And we have attack that will frighten you, especially if Defoe gets a look in. Does Roque Junior still play for Brazil National Team? If so look at his experiences in the English top flight, he was destroyed.

Whether or not it was a fluke can be eternally debated; however, your team had more than it showed in 2002. I'm not trying to be offensive; on the contrary, I respect and like English football, both club and country. I supported your team and went wild when you guys defeated Argentina.

having said that, I was somewhat surprised. You guys had 1 more man for more than 30 minutes, yet your effort was disappointing! I remembered how Argentina bombarded and lay siege upon your goal during a 10-minute spell during that game, and I expected England to do the same, all the more because of your one-player advantage. Why your team did nothing of the sort is beyond me.

Finally, I am convinced your side is better now than it was in 2002 and that barring injuries, it will be at least a notch or two superior to the 2002 side. But don't expect us to be any weaker. Offensively, we're even better.

[deejay]

They won a a classic goalie gaff
No way that free kick shold have gone in.
However there was no way England were going to score again.
If not for that free kick goal, it wold have been Brazil in OT or
Brazil on penalties

I'll bet if Beckham had made that shot you would have called it skill. That was Ronaldinho, quite possibly the world's greatest player today or haven't you paid attention?

[The Potter]

Whether or not it was a fluke can be eternally debated; however, your team had more than it showed in 2002. I'm not trying to be offensive; on the contrary, I respect and like English football, both club and country. I supported your team and went wild when you guys defeated Argentina.


I didn't think it was a fluke until I read recently ronaldinho admit he meant to hit the other corner.



having said that, I was somewhat surprised. You guys had 1 more man for more than 30 minutes, yet your effort was disappointing! I remembered how Argentina bombarded and lay siege upon your goal during a 10-minute spell during that game, and I expected England to do the same, all the more because of your one-player advantage. Why your team did nothing of the sort is beyond me.


I blame Sven (i still think he's a decent maneger though) I don't know if it's fair but it has become a pattern. all games we've lost under Sven Brazil,France and Portugal we led in and started to play negative football.




Finally, I am convinced your side is better now than it was in 2002 and that barring injuries, it will be at least a notch or two superior to the 2002 side. But don't expect us to be any weaker. Offensively, we're even better.


Even with injury's we should be better we were absoloutly decimated and far to inexperienced last time.

[OrlandoSPUR]

Whether or not it was a fluke can be eternally debated; however, your team had more than it showed in 2002. I'm not trying to be offensive; on the contrary, I respect and like English football, both club and country. I supported your team and went wild when you guys defeated Argentina.

having said that, I was somewhat surprised. You guys had 1 more man for more than 30 minutes, yet your effort was disappointing! I remembered how Argentina bombarded and lay siege upon your goal during a 10-minute spell during that game, and I expected England to do the same, all the more because of your one-player advantage. Why your team did nothing of the sort is beyond me.

Finally, I am convinced your side is better now than it was in 2002 and that barring injuries, it will be at least a notch or two superior to the 2002 side. But don't expect us to be any weaker. Offensively, we're even better.

I can never denounce the fact that Brazil is the most successful national side of all time and after they beat England I wanted them to win it all. But you are so right about effort when we went a man up we did nothing, not sure why that happened? I know some have mentioned and pointed to the fact that Sven seems too negative, I am hoping that he can recognize the attacking abilities of the '06 squad.

Anyways as always I am really looking forward to a World Cup Year and a wonderful festival of football, with a good atmosphere and the lack of trouble that has marred previous competitions.

[argentine soccer fan]

They’re much more impressive than they were in the previous qualifiers. They’re not with their forth coach in 2 years like they were before 2002. , they in a very comfortable position and have the chance to use the rest of qualifying to find what their best 11 and most adequate formation is without the pressure of not qualifying.

That is not entirely true. Brazil has great talent and they are closer to qualifying than they were at this stage in the last world cup. But I don't think anybody can describe their performance in qualifiers as impressive.

They've had trouble scoring goals, which is hard to believe considering the talent they have. I think this is partly due to opponents playing extremely conservative against Brazil, but it is also due to Brazilian players trying to do too much individually rather than playing as a team. Also, as great as Cafu and R.Carlos have been, I also think it is time that Brazil looks at young players for the lateral positions.

But I'm sure they'll be fine when the World Cup comes around.

Oh come on Argentina, weren’t that great in 2002. They blitzed SA qualifying with high paced, high pressing game and then run into two teams that could match them for speed and had nothing left. Bielsa totally deviated from the tradition of his country and paid for it.

It is true that Bielsa's tactics were part of the problem, though I think the way you describe it is a bit simplistic. In principle I like Bielsa's system, but I think his failure was the inability to provide variants and adjustments when they were needed. So, I agree that coaching was a big factor in Argentina failing to advance.

But I don't think we can blame it all on coaching and tactics. Aside from the fact that luck wasn't on our side, I think we have to consider that some players did not perform at their best. In 2000 and 2001 the majority of the Argentine starters were having great seasons with their clubs and they also played well with the national team, earning for themselves the tag of 'favorites'. For different reasons, many of these same players (Simeone, Ortega, Veron, Batistuta, Lopez to mention a few) had less than stellar performances with their clubs during the 2002-2003 seasons, so in restrospect it is not as surprising that they also did not bring their best game to Japan. That particular group seemed to peak one year too early.

[Xeneize12]

That particular group seemed to peak one year too early.

This is so true! The hardest thing to do is to control the pace of the team so that they are ready to go @ the time of the tourney. Which gives me some hope now...since, although we've got the #1 position in the qualifiers, Argentina is not playing at a level good enough to win the WC. But...there is time.

The game of Brazil against Uruguay was a very good game to watch. Brazil did not play that great...but created enough opportunties (plus got lucky on an offside call) to tie the game. Uruguay clearly deserved to win that game...they gave Brazil a great run for their money..especially considering the fact that Uruguay hasn't been playing all that great (despite their players doing very well at the club level.

[Century's Best]

ASF and X12,

Since there is time between now and the World Cup...

1. who are the players who absolutely must not stay home, if your team is to stand a serious chance of winning it all?
2. how different will Pekerman's final formation be from Bielsa's 3-3-1-3?

[argentine soccer fan]

ASF and X12,

Since there is time between now and the World Cup...

1. who are the players who absolutely must not stay home, if your team is to stand a serious chance of winning it all?
2. how different will Pekerman's final formation be from Bielsa's 3-3-1-3?

1) Tough to say right now. The team is coming together with lots of young players, and it depends on who is playing well next year. I think one of Bielsa's mistakes was that apparently he was set on his team a year before the cup, and he didn't make any adjustments.

But if I had to mention some players now, assuming they continue playing at the same level, I'd say Ayala, Zanetti, Mascherano, Aimar, Riquelme. I'll hold my opinion on forwards until I can determine if Tevez is ready to step up.

2) Based on what we saw so far, it looks like Peckerman is going to go with a back line of four, and probably will pressure the ball in midfield less than Bielsa. However, if he starts Zanetti as right back, he can easily adjust to a line of three, because if the opponents don't attack with more than two forwards, then Zanetti has the option to move up and be another midfielder.

While I liked Bielsa's system, what I like about Peckerman is that he is more flexible than Bielsa. He is willing to adjust the system to the players, rather than the other way around. He also makes better adjustments for the opponents, and he is willing to pick players with different characteristics. To give an example, in 2002 Bielsa had Piojo Lopez starting, and he had another player of similar characteristics, Cannigia, on the bench. He could have included somebody like Saviola, who would have given him different options. That might have made the difference against England and Sweden.

[auggieted]

I will go out a limb and say it will not be a known team that defeats or shows the Brazilians the door. Might be a Republic of Ireland, I can DREAM, or Portugal, when they or on they can impress, or even someone like Sweeden, or Cameroon.

Why do I step out a limb, mainly due to the fact that Brazil might blink and not bring their A game to a "Lesser" game.

Just a thought.

If I had my last dollar to bet I'd lay it on Germany, due to the homefield advantge or Brazil, track record.

[propelahed]

I'm tired of hearing the proud british excuses, "oh if we didnt' have seaman in goal in 2002, oh if we had beaten portugal in 2004". Maybe you have a better team this time. But still not good enough to beat Brazil (who are better this time around) or Germany (homefield advantage).

[Mobile]

I'm tired of hearing the proud british excuses,

In which confederation does the British football team play?

"oh if we didnt' have seaman in goal in 2002, oh if we had beaten portugal in 2004".

Yeah, we've got a lot of excuses. Mainly because it always hurts so much when we lose. Still, nobody is obliged to listen.

Maybe you have a better team this time. But still not good enough to beat Brazil (who are better this time around) or Germany (homefield advantage).


Dammit, you're right. If only we were good enough to beat Germany in Germany........

[Century's Best]

I can never denounce the fact that Brazil is the most successful national side of all time and after they beat England I wanted them to win it all. But you are so right about effort when we went a man up we did nothing, not sure why that happened? I know some have mentioned and pointed to the fact that Sven seems too negative, I am hoping that he can recognize the attacking abilities of the '06 squad.

Anyways as always I am really looking forward to a World Cup Year and a wonderful festival of football, with a good atmosphere and the lack of trouble that has marred previous competitions.

So am I. England, like other teams, will have the potential to finish in the top 4. :)

[Century's Best]

ASF,

great reply, thanks. I do think that Bielsa's Achilles' heel was his inflexibility. He was way too rigid. I do suspect a reason why so many wanted Bianchi to take over - besides Bianchi's club triumphs - is that Bianchi has made a name as a coach who brings out the best from his players, regardless of his system (though if I'm correct, Bianchi's standard is the 3-4-1-2.).

Without a doubt, Bianchi was pivotal in the earlier development of Riquelme and it was under Bianchi's tutelate that Riquelme became a household name anytime anyone discussed the Libertadores.

[argentine soccer fan]

ASF,

great reply, thanks. I do think that Bielsa's Achilles' heel was his inflexibility. He was way too rigid. I do suspect a reason why so many wanted Bianchi to take over - besides Bianchi's club triumphs - is that Bianchi has made a name as a coach who brings out the best from his players, regardless of his system (though if I'm correct, Bianchi's standard is the 3-4-1-2.).

Without a doubt, Bianchi was pivotal in the earlier development of Riquelme and it was under Bianchi's tutelate that Riquelme became a household name anytime anyone discussed the Libertadores.

Bianchi would have been my first pick. He is not just a great tactician, but also a great motivator.

Peckerman is unproven at top level. His advantage is that he was very succesful with the youth program, and many of the young players coming up played for him and respect him. BTW: Peckerman's preferred system is 4-3-1-2. One huge difference with the change is that Peckerman is likely to rely on Riquelme as the playmaker, while Bielsa didn't think Riquelme fit his system.

[celito]

I will go out a limb and say it will not be a known team that defeats or shows the Brazilians the door. Might be a Republic of Ireland, I can DREAM, or Portugal, when they or on they can impress, or even someone like Sweeden, or Cameroon.

Why do I step out a limb, mainly due to the fact that Brazil might blink and not bring their A game to a "Lesser" game.

Just a thought.

If I had my last dollar to bet I'd lay it on Germany, due to the homefield advantge or Brazil, track record.

It can happen, but it hasn't historically. We usually lose to big name teams:

98 - France (we lost to norway in group stage, but we were qualified already)
90 - Argentina
86 - France (on PKs)
82 - Italy
78 - Didn't lose to anybody ... out on goal differential to Argentina
74 - Holland

So I think it's unlikely.

[lamrof]

If England cannot win with the players they have now, I don't know if they can ever. The only other thing they need is for lady Luck sprinkle some love unto them.
England must get to the championship match. You got to go to what, '66 to find England? I think they have the world's most dangerous and able central field player in Lampard. That guy scares me. He is powerful, fast and full of subtle but effective guile. Just watch the goals he scores. I think he will be a marked man though, whenever he is in the opposing team field.

Brazil's Ronaldo seems to have started a conscious effort to ready himself for the big show. He lost weight and is showing some fighting spirit as of late. Something I haven't seen in a long time.

I watched Ivory Coast's national team play. Ladies and Gentlemen be ready. They are one impressive bunch. Power, speed, technique, finishing, it is all there. Teams need psychological advantage to beat them as I see that could be their only deficiency.

[afgrijselijkheid]

i've been saying this for 5 years, but i believe england are a real threat to win in 2006