Ed Johnson & Carlos Ruiz..best strike force in CONCACAF??

[Onionsack]

With the recent trade of Ruiz to FC Dallas from LA and his new strike partnership with Eddie Johnson, does this make them the best forward combonation for club teams in all of CONCACAF?

What other club teams in CONCACAF can boast one on par or better?

[sidspaceman]

I'll take Club America with Claudio López and Kléber Pereira for one and you can also throw in Cruz Azual with César Delgado and Kikin Fonseca.

[sidspaceman]

Now that I think about it I would also say Santos with Pony Ruiz and Matías Vuoso.

[yankiboy]

I'll take Club America with Claudio López and Kléber Pereira for one and you can also throw in Cruz Azual with César Delgado and Kikin Fonseca.

Besides the great examples that Sid just gave, you gotta remember that EJ and Pescadito haven't actually played together yet.

So we're comparing "potential' over a known quantity. You also have to consider the differences in the many leagues of CONCACAF. So that means you have to consider the quality of play from one league to another. If you do that, The Mexican Primera is going to come out on top. Even if all the other factors (quality of the pairs of players being compared, etc.) were equal.

I think that if they can play well together, they have the potential to be the best strike force in MLS.

[JayDelight729]

This is the best forward combination in the history of Major League Soccer. It is not even close. Razov & Ralph? No. Twellman and Noonan? No. You find me a better striker combo in MLS History; I don't think you can.

In regards to Concacaf, I don't follow Mexican soccer. So, I can't say if there is any in the league. But, a team with a strike force of a starting Guatemala national team forward and a US starting forward, a top 10-15 FIFA team, that is pretty hard to beat.

I talked about this last week when the trade talks were just rumors. But I'll make a prediction, Johnson and Ruiz will combine for 35 goals this year.

Considering the amount of national team time for both of these guys, I think that is a hell of an accomplishment.

[yankiboy]

This is the best forward combination in the history of Major League Soccer. It is not even close. Razov & Ralph? No. Twellman and Noonan? No. You find me a better striker combo in MLS History; I don't think you can.

Considering the amount of national team time for both of these guys, I think that is a hell of an accomplishment.

I would have to mention Diaz Arce and Moreno back in the day with DC United. For the first three seasons before Diaz Arce was traded.

Both had extensive National team experience. One actually played in a WC (Moreno 94. If I'm wrong about that fact, no doubt some will correct me).

Not to take anthing away from EJ or Pescadito.
On a side note: FIFA ratings are SHADY. Personally, I don't rely on them too much. I don't think that they are a really good indicator of how a lot of good teams are. As a result, I don't think that giving the rankings too much credit doesn't necessarily give an accurate indicator of how good an actual player is in relation to another player just because one plays on a team ranked higher/lower by said SHADY ranking system.

[sidspaceman]

In regards to Concacaf, I don't follow Mexican soccer. So, I can't say if there is any in the league. But, a team with a strike force of a starting Guatemala national team forward and a US starting forward, a top 10-15 FIFA team, that is pretty hard to beat.
I

Well how about Cruz Azual that has a starter for the Mexican national team and a sometimes starter for the Argentin national team?

[jared9999]

sid took the words right out of mouth. i''ll also take the duo of jose saturnino cardozo and vicente sanchez of toluca over ruiz and jonhson. but no doubt that ruiz and johnson is a very great offence. no doubt they are the best names in mls

[F.F.]

This is the best forward combination in the history of Major League Soccer. It is not even close. Razov & Ralph? No. Twellman and Noonan? No. You find me a better striker combo in MLS History; I don't think you can.

In regards to Concacaf, I don't follow Mexican soccer. So, I can't say if there is any in the league. But, a team with a strike force of a starting Guatemala national team forward and a US starting forward, a top 10-15 FIFA team, that is pretty hard to beat.

I talked about this last week when the trade talks were just rumors. But I'll make a prediction, Johnson and Ruiz will combine for 35 goals this year.

Considering the amount of national team time for both of these guys, I think that is a hell of an accomplishment.



Brian McBride and Stern John

[ursula]

I see the several combos listed above show that since Ruiz and Johnson haven't yet even played together along with the fact that neither has truly made their mark internationally (compared to some of the other examples) we'll have to see how these guys do first.

[Franchise]

What is clear is that this combo certainly has the _potential_ to be considered as the best partnership in the region. Many of the posters here, though, (including myself) are ignorant or near-ignorant of the other leagues in the region, so our opinions can't hold much weight beyond what we know.

Determining measurement criteria is crucial. Is their international performance over the last six months the primary criterion? If so, it is difficult--perhaps impossible--to not choose Ruiz/EJ. If a longer time period is used, then others that can be similarly intriguing. If club play is the primary consideration, FC Dallas's duo isn't even in the running yet. Perhaps after this season ends, those that follow the top leagues of *both* the US and Mexico could provide some potential candidates, and we can agree on metrics for comparing the various sets. But that would take the fun out of it, wouldn't it?

[JayDelight729]

Brian McBride and Stern John

EJ and Ruiz is better. Considering that this is Dallas. Who would have thought 2 years Dallas would have one of the best strike forces in Concacaf.

[ursula]

EJ and Ruiz is better. Considering that this is Dallas. Who would have thought 2 years Dallas would have one of the best strike forces in Concacaf.

1) In 99/00 Dallas had a very good strike tandem in Kreis and Graziani. Very productive. So it's noty like Dallas hasn't experienced anything like this before.

2) The comparison with John and McBride is interesting because it brings up the vital part for all good forward combos: service. Johnson can create some on his own (but he's not polished by any means yet) but Ruiz needs to be fed and to me although they have Ronnie O'Brien (who's good, not great) as by far the main souce for feeding the pair, Dallas will be suseptible to opposing teams shutting down their midfield. (The rest of the Dallas lineup consists of two d-mids and a pretty inexperienced defense.) If that happens then we can forget about them being mentioned with other pairs here.

[Onionsack]

I see the several combos listed above show that since Ruiz and Johnson haven't yet even played together along with the fact that neither has truly made their mark internationally (compared to some of the other examples) we'll have to see how these guys do first.

If you actualy believe Ruiz and Johnson have not made their mark internationally please "pass that blunt to the ********** on my left" cause both are currently the best striker for each national team respectivly.


I understand the point about them not yet plaing together. But you can't argue they don't have the potential to be. If they both play to their proven potential together then look out.

The only partnership that has been mentioned that i think is comparable on paper is Delgado-Fonseca.

Still the thread was a question not a statement so thanks for those that offered some inteligent feedback.

[ursula]

I understand the point about them not yet plaing together. But you can't argue they don't have the potential to be. If they both play to their proven potential together then look out.

Yeah, I can agree that they have the potential to be the best strike force ever. I just think the likelihood is less than 50%. For instance, take the goal Johnson scored vs Guatemala off a nice pass from Donovan. Given that same opportunity, Ruiz in Donovan's position tries to take the shot and more than likely the shot is stopped. There's just a lack of playmaking ability on Dallas IMO to match the very large potential of finishing.


Another thing, and this is about Ruiz. Yes he is Guatemala's #1 forward, but we're talking about how he'll do in MLS and the fact is his goal production has declined quite a bit in three years. I attribute that in part to MLS defendersd knowing how to play him better and MLS referees knowing his pulling and grabbing and flopping tricks and not buying them as often. Again, the Guatemala game: Arena had Gibbs start that game (and Berhalter the Mexico game) in part because as a former MLS defender, Gibbs is very aware of Ruiz' style. And it worked. (I would be tempted to add how the T&T ref didn't buy Ruiz' flops either, including handing him a yellow card which will cause him to miss the Mexico game but the ref was... wierd.)

So I wonder if Ruiz is losing his effectiveness in MLS since worldwide you just don't see forwards like carlos who are effective in a given league for too many years in a row.



It will be fun to see if it clicks though.

[Beckham7]

Johnson has 7 WCQ goals, how many does Ruiz have?

[Onionsack]

Yeah, I can agree that they have the potential to be the best strike force ever. I just think the likelihood is less than 50%. For instance, take the goal Johnson scored vs Guatemala off a nice pass from Donovan. Given that same opportunity, Ruiz in Donovan's position tries to take the shot and more than likely the shot is stopped. There's just a lack of playmaking ability on Dallas IMO to match the very large potential of finishing.


Another thing, and this is about Ruiz. Yes he is Guatemala's #1 forward, but we're talking about how he'll do in MLS and the fact is his goal production has declined quite a bit in three years. I attribute that in part to MLS defendersd knowing how to play him better and MLS referees knowing his pulling and grabbing and flopping tricks and not buying them as often. Again, the Guatemala game: Arena had Gibbs start that game (and Berhalter the Mexico game) in part because as a former MLS defender, Gibbs is very aware of Ruiz' style. And it worked. (I would be tempted to add how the T&T ref didn't buy Ruiz' flops either, including handing him a yellow card which will cause him to miss the Mexico game but the ref was... wierd.)

So I wonder if Ruiz is losing his effectiveness in MLS since worldwide you just don't see forwards like carlos who are effective in a given league for too many years in a row.



It will be fun to see if it clicks though.

Well Carlos was still one of the top goalscorers last season dispite missing signifigant time to injury and call ups. Also his production dropped off under Sampson a bit too.

If we take into account the teams they play on and their supporting cast as to their effectivenss then yeah FC Dallas is not Club America...i was making the underling assumtion that all things were equal outside the striker partnership...in which case i am basing the union on reputation and prior results alone. Not a slam dunk of course but definatly the makings a mighty goalscoring duo.

But if i woke up tommorow and could pick 2 CONCACAF stikers to form a pairing these two would be right up there near the top of my list.

[Goathemala]

Yeah, I can agree that they have the potential to be the best strike force ever. I just think the likelihood is less than 50%. For instance, take the goal Johnson scored vs Guatemala off a nice pass from Donovan. Given that same opportunity, Ruiz in Donovan's position tries to take the shot and more than likely the shot is stopped. There's just a lack of playmaking ability on Dallas IMO to match the very large potential of finishing.


Another thing, and this is about Ruiz. Yes he is Guatemala's #1 forward, but we're talking about how he'll do in MLS and the fact is his goal production has declined quite a bit in three years. I attribute that in part to MLS defendersd knowing how to play him better and MLS referees knowing his pulling and grabbing and flopping tricks and not buying them as often. Again, the Guatemala game: Arena had Gibbs start that game (and Berhalter the Mexico game) in part because as a former MLS defender, Gibbs is very aware of Ruiz' style. And it worked. (I would be tempted to add how the T&T ref didn't buy Ruiz' flops either, including handing him a yellow card which will cause him to miss the Mexico game but the ref was... wierd.)

So I wonder if Ruiz is losing his effectiveness in MLS since worldwide you just don't see forwards like carlos who are effective in a given league for too many years in a row.



It will be fun to see if it clicks though.

Well he was injured and still managed to be in the top goal scorers in MLS.

[SABuffalo786]

After watching Ruiz dive and bitch for 90 straight minutes in person on Wednesday night in 'Bama, I really don't want his name and "Best in CONCACAF" anywhere near each other.

[Stan Collins]

I attribute that in part to MLS defendersd knowing how to play him better and MLS referees knowing his pulling and grabbing and flopping tricks and not buying them as often. I'm seeing a lot of people do analysis on goalscoring without remembering the league context, so I thought I'd add that in here.

Quite honestly, once you factor out that everybody's goals were down because it was a defensive league last year, and that Ruiz missed about 10 matches, there's not much left for this effect.

If, for example, I took Ruiz's goals gpg as a percentage of the average MLS team's gpg this last season, his numbers would probably look almost as good as three years ago. Ruiz scored .55 gpg last season (he was second in the league in points per 90, just behind Guevara), and the average MLS club as a whole scored about 1.3 gpg. Take that back to when teams were averaging 1.6, and over 30 games that would be about 20 goals. Johnson himself only had .46 gpg, which would only come out to about 17 by the same method, though obviously the quality of service and style of play across the two teams are not constant (that, and one expects Johnson has gotten better since then).