altittude training

[gnatfan]

Just a quick question about altitude training. It's my understanding that spending time at Colorado Springs will oxiginate the blood cells allowing our athletes to have more "boost" when they return to sea level. I was thinking an added bonus of this (besides being as ready as possible for Azteca) would be at the Guatamala game.

Do I have this right? Does it allow for greater endurance or speed? Or both?

[careerender]

Absolutely! Suddenly arriving at sea-level (Birmingham can't be more than a few hundred feet above) from being aclimated at altitude means you have to work less to deliver oxygen to your muscles. But, I bet we'll be fielding an mostly euro squad against the guats so they won't have that advantage. 'Course any MLSrs on the field will be 'juiced' (not ala conseco).

[Indiana Jones]

Having often travelled on vacation to a 6,000 ft location I can tell you that it takes several days to acclimatise. Training for 4 days aint going to do the job. So by the time of the Honduras game the guys still won't be where they need to be in Mexico City.
Of course some of the Mexicans play club soccer at sea level so THEY wont all be fully acclimatised either. It would be interesting if someone more knowledgeable than me on Mexican club soccer could to do a quick survey on which Mexicans DO usually play/train at altitude. Their best player play in Europe so I'll bet he will be breathing heavy by halftime.

[Soccer Doc]

I will not attempt to give a course in high altitude physiology but here are a few facts to work with. (I've had extensive training in Mountain Warfare)

~Different people react differently to the physiologic demands of working at altitude. There is no way to know who will do well and who will not and how one does one time may be differnt that the next.
~the issue of working at altitude is the ability of the blood to carry oxygen.

~Under 4000 ft there is no noticable effect on exercise ability
~Between 4-6000 feet most people will notice a minimal loss of functional capacity.
~Between 6-7000 feet most people will have a significnat loss of functional ability.
~Between 7-8000 feet "normal" people will find carrying ones bags across a parking lot is hard work. Really fit people will also find a significant loss of functional ability. NOTE: Mexico City is at 7500 feet
~Between 8-10000 feet work is difficult at best
~Between 10-12000 feet people starting developing altitude sickness
~Over 12000 feet people starting developing pulmonary edema
~Over 14000 feet people die fairly quickly if not acclimatized

~When people live at altitude they produce extra red blood cells so that they can carry extra oxygen
~The increase in number of red cells starts as soon as one is at altitude and reaches a significant level between 7-10 days

~One trick that can help offset the dangers and decrement to performance of going to the altitude of 7500 feet (Mexico City) is to stage at 3500-5000 feet for 2-3 days. This does not result in an increase in RBC's but does somehow protect against most of the energy sapping effects that go along with suddenly goes with going to altitude.

If you want further info please PM me.

[elconejito]

I thought i heard/read somewhere that the way to combat the altitude effect was to either a) play very soon after arriving, less than 24hrs or b) wait for a week before playing.

Not sure what the reasoning behind that was...

[Bruce S]

muscle phys is my area. It takes weeks of altitude training to really get the benefits, because it is increased red cell number and increased hemoglobin.That takes a while. Best to just forget it and make sure the players are very fit.There is no way we can get the Euros and other players really ready. Just do your best.

[MarioKempes]

I will not attempt to give a course in high altitude physiology but here are a few facts to work with. (I've had extensive training in Mountain Warfare)

~Different people react differently to the physiologic demands of working at altitude. There is no way to know who will do well and who will not and how one does one time may be differnt that the next.
~the issue of working at altitude is the ability of the blood to carry oxygen.

~Under 4000 ft there is no noticable effect on exercise ability
~Between 4-6000 feet most people will notice a minimal loss of functional capacity.
~Between 6-7000 feet most people will have a significnat loss of functional ability.
~Between 7-8000 feet "normal" people will find carrying ones bags across a parking lot is hard work. Really fit people will also find a significant loss of functional ability. NOTE: Mexico City is at 7500 feet
~Between 8-10000 feet work is difficult at best
~Between 10-12000 feet people starting developing altitude sickness
~Over 12000 feet people starting developing pulmonary edema
~Over 14000 feet people die fairly quickly if not acclimatized

~When people live at altitude they produce extra red blood cells so that they can carry extra oxygen
~The increase in number of red cells starts as soon as one is at altitude and reaches a significant level between 7-10 days

~One trick that can help offset the dangers and decrement to performance of going to the altitude of 7500 feet (Mexico City) is to stage at 3500-5000 feet for 2-3 days. This does not result in an increase in RBC's but does somehow protect against most of the energy sapping effects that go along with suddenly goes with going to altitude.

If you want further info please PM me.

Could you be more specific, please? :)

Thanks for the excellent information. May god bless your hematocrit.

[RUUDVN]

Just a quick question about altitude training. It's my understanding that spending time at Colorado Springs will oxiginate the blood cells allowing our athletes to have more "boost" when they return to sea level. I was thinking an added bonus of this (besides being as ready as possible for Azteca) would be at the Guatamala game.

Do I have this right? Does it allow for greater endurance or speed? Or both?

so, scientifically Colorado Rapid should win away games easily....

[Soccer Doc]

muscle phys is my area. It takes weeks of altitude training to really get the benefits, because it is increased red cell number and increased hemoglobin.That takes a while. Best to just forget it and make sure the players are very fit.There is no way we can get the Euros and other players really ready. Just do your best.

I'm not sure we are saying anything that disagrees. Aclimitization all a matter of degree. There is what can have some effect in a few days, what one can get for a 7-14 days altitude experience and then what can get from long term training. To really raise RBC's trakes a fair amount of time. Training the players going to Mexico for 3-4 weeks at altitude would do a lot.

[Adam Zebrowski]

I can speak of altitude training, particularly for distance runners...

ideally, 18-21 days at altitude doing base training is a sufficient period of time to optimize the training affect...

at that point, it'll be marginal increments NOT worth the time to continue staying at altitude...

the altitude issue is come a few hours before the match, ro do the full adaptation...

another aspect is sleeping in altitude chambers to mimic the benefit of altitude without going to altitude...

alberto salazar has a house sealed to emulate altitude in the northwest...he's got a bradenton like grouping of young distance runner whom he's training...

I do suspect arena will use about 20 players between mexico and guatemala...

I would suspect very high pressure against guatemala, hopefully it's not an 80 degree day, as i doubt usa is heat adapted yet...

the heat adaptation issue was significant in t&t...

[purojogo]

I will not attempt to give a course in high altitude physiology but here are a few facts to work with. (I've had extensive training in Mountain Warfare)

~Different people react differently to the physiologic demands of working at altitude. There is no way to know who will do well and who will not and how one does one time may be differnt that the next.
~the issue of working at altitude is the ability of the blood to carry oxygen.

~Under 4000 ft there is no noticable effect on exercise ability
~Between 4-6000 feet most people will notice a minimal loss of functional capacity.
~Between 6-7000 feet most people will have a significnat loss of functional ability.
~Between 7-8000 feet "normal" people will find carrying ones bags across a parking lot is hard work. Really fit people will also find a significant loss of functional ability. NOTE: Mexico City is at 7500 feet
~Between 8-10000 feet work is difficult at best
~Between 10-12000 feet people starting developing altitude sickness
~Over 12000 feet people starting developing pulmonary edema
~Over 14000 feet people die fairly quickly if not acclimatized

~When people live at altitude they produce extra red blood cells so that they can carry extra oxygen
~The increase in number of red cells starts as soon as one is at altitude and reaches a significant level between 7-10 days

~One trick that can help offset the dangers and decrement to performance of going to the altitude of 7500 feet (Mexico City) is to stage at 3500-5000 feet for 2-3 days. This does not result in an increase in RBC's but does somehow protect against most of the energy sapping effects that go along with suddenly goes with going to altitude.

If you want further info please PM me.

I'm sure you must be aware of the CONCACAF Champions Cup, being that you are a Revs fan and your team was involved in it once before: So do you think i'm fighting the good fight by arguing in the Concacaf boards for having 90 min. + 90 minutes (one whole game at home each team) , and then going straight to PKs in case the teams are even?.....

As it stands right now, both KC Wizards and Olimpia from Honduras had to fight out an extra 30 minutes at places where the altitude was higher than they were used to (Olimpia had to go up about 1200 meters above what they're used to, KC about 1500 meters).... Not surprisingly, they both lost....

DCU will have to go play in Mexico DF for 120 minutes if they "dare" be tied on aggregate vs. Pumas after playing the first two regulation 90 minutes at each place ....BAsis for the extra 30 minutes at their place? A draw, a lucky choice! Never mind the prize of the tourney being a trip to the World Club Champinships....

Since it is only a draw that awards the second leg host the privilege of getting that 30 minute advantage at their turf, i think this is grossly unfair, especially if such team is at altitude, and as you might figure, very punishing -even for athletes- for clubs with no time to get used to it (whether due to lack of time, transportation issues, $$, logistics, etc)......... So what would be your position on this? Am i on to something?

I argued that they should do away with the 30 extra minutes stuff for all teams and go straight to PK.... It is just too one sided to give a team an advantage so arbitrarily given, and for which the host team had to do nothing at all to earn such advantage...... So what are your thoughts on this?

Pages where i've argued this about:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162493&page=24&pp=15

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162493&page=25&pp=15

If you want to back me up, or contradict me, go ahead.... Honestly, I'd rather be proven wrong than pretend i'm right when i'm not......
I've been arguing for this based on what i understood of the issue whenever qualifiers come up, whether in South America or CONCACAF, reading articles from doctors, experts, etc..... But maybe my lack of first hand knowledge could be missing something.....

BTW, sorry this has little to do with US NAts, but since you and a couple of other guys in this thread seem to have lots of experience on this issue, well i could not resist bringing this up.... Thank you in advance......

[Soccer Doc]

If you want to back me up, or contradict me, go ahead.....

You make some interesting arguments and no you are not wrong.

I have only two thouights to offer. If it were always the team from altitude that got the second leg then it would be unfair. Fact is the way this Cup is structured it's the year and the draw that controls who plays where so it's---the luck on the draw.

Maybe the most important point to remember, 1200-15000 meters is still within the range where the altitude is a minor factor. Going to Mexico City is another matter entirely. Any team who knows that they are going to need to play the second leg at that altitude better be up a goal or two going into the away leg. Soccer at 7500 feet in the smog is FUBAR

[McKinney_Burn]

Just a quick question about altitude training. It's my understanding that spending time at Colorado Springs will oxiginate the blood cells allowing our athletes to have more "boost" when they return to sea level. I was thinking an added bonus of this (besides being as ready as possible for Azteca) would be at the Guatamala game.

Do I have this right? Does it allow for greater endurance or speed? Or both?

It also makes for a good buzz, if the altitude difference is enough. I sometimes like to hang out in Denver for a weekend, then fly a Cessa to Death Valley. It's the long way home, but you wanna talk about F-ed up!!!!!

:)

[gnatfan]

It also makes for a good buzz, if the altitude difference is enough. I sometimes like to hang out in Denver for a weekend, then fly a Cessa to Death Valley. It's the long way home, but you wanna talk about F-ed up!!!!!

:)

I was just down in Death Valley last weekend driving around--and got buzzed by one of those military jets out of China Lake flying low and fast--NOT something you want to see if you are flying any type of Cessna

[jonspider]

Not sure about Eindhoven, but with much of Holland being BELOW sea level, could this in turn effect DMB, when he gets to the Azteca, with only a few days to aclimate himself? I know he's a pretty fit dude, but wasn't sure how this works. If below sea level made more of a difference? Hope not! Cause he da man! :)

[scaryice]

Well, no wonder Bolivia plays so well at home. They're at 12,000 feet.

[Shaydee]

anyone know where they are training this week?? still in albuquerque???

[Sanguine]

anyone know where they are training this week?? still in albuquerque???

Probably back to Colorado Springs