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listen_up_fergie
12 Mar 2005, 10:59 PM
In 1991, Sir Alex Ferguson and his scouts spotted a budding young goalkeeping talent playing for Danish club Brondby, and Fergie snapped him up for a mere £100,000. Trophies soon filled the United cabinets, and there is no doubt that the Great Dane, Peter Schmeichel, had something to do with them. Schmeichel stayed on with United till 1999, after winning the famous treble, and ever since then, Fergie has struggled to replace the goalkeeping legend.

In the space of four years, United used nine different keepers: Mark Bosnich, Raimond Van der Gouw, Massimo Taibi, Fabien Barthez, Paul Rachubka, Andy Goram, Lopez Ricardo, and more recently Tim Howard and Roy Carroll. None have lived up to the high standards of Schmeichel, and this has perhaps had a significant effect on United's trophy-winning chances over the last few years.

But are we just searching for a scape-goat? How important could a goalie possibly be? After all, doesn't having a good defence make up for having an average keeper? To answer the first question, yes and no. It is true that often the blame shifts away from shoddy defending, poor finishing, or an overall lacklustre outfield performance, and onto the goalkeeper. At the same time however, having a decent goalkeeper can make all the difference. A goalkeeper is expected to be a last line of resort, and when everything else fails, you expect a worldclass goalkeeper to step up and take on the pressure of being the one to keep your team afloat. All goalkeepers make mistakes, but worldclass keepers avoid making mistakes in big games. Worldclass keepers pull off saves that a keeper is not normally expected to make, but unfortunately our keepers over the last few years haven't made the saves they are expected to make. Just to give you an idea of the part goalkeeping errors have played in hampering our chances of winning the Champions League, let me take you back to 2003. We had already suffered a 1-3 away defeat at the Bernabeu, and and in the home leg we needed to make sure that Real Madrid didn't score. But early on in the game, Barthez allowed Ronaldo to score after leaving his near post blatantly exposed. Ronaldo went on to score a hattrick, which despite United's 4-3 win, was enough to give Real a spot in the next round. Obviously the blame should not fall entirely on Barthez, but the fact of the matter is that Barthez's poor positioning dampened United's confidence for the rest of the half, and gave Real the boost they needed. Fast-forward to the year 2004 - in goal for United is perhaps their best goalkeeping prospect since Schmeichel. Tim Howard signed for United from American club MetroStars, and after an impressive pre-season he usurped Barthez's first team spot. Howard was having a terrific debut year for United, and now found himself in goal in the second leg of the Champions League against Porto. United had lost the first leg in Portugal 2-1 after Benny McCarthy's winner. At Old Trafford, United found themselves 1-0 up in the dying stages of the game and were set to go through on away goals. That was before Tim Howard fumbled Benni McCarthy's freekick from just outside the box, and Costinha was there to rifle in the equalizer which led to yet another United exit. After a miserable start to the 2004/2005 season, Howard found himself on the bench, while Roy Carroll took up the goalkeeping responsibility for United. But Howard has recently found himself back in favour after Carroll played his part in hampering yet another Champions League campaign. United had been drawn against AC Milan for the first time in Fergie's career, and in the first leg at Old Trafford, United squandered a couple of chances but on the whole managed to keep the Milan attack fairly quiet. But the only goal of the game came when Roy Carroll failed to hold onto Seedorf's shot and Crespo fired in the winner. Carroll's error meant that United were in a difficult position for the away leg, and unfortunately they were unable to live up to the mammoth task of scoring at the San Siro. It is quite evident that goalkeeping errors over the last few years have compromised United's chances of silverware, at least in terms of the Champions League. Of course the rest of the team must also shoulder some blame, but it would nevertheless be much more beneficial to United's chances of winning the Champions League in the future if they can find a Schmeichel replacement as soon as possible.

Chelsea have found themselves an answer to Real Madrid's Iker Casillas and Juventus' Gianluigi Buffon in Petr Cech. To see the impact a top keeper can have on a team's chances in the Champions League, we only need to look back as far as Chelsea's 4-2 win over Barcelona at Stamford Bridge. Having lost to Barca 2-1 at the Nou Camp, Chelsea needed to score at least two goals more than Barca did and they responded by scoring three in the first twenty minutes. But Barcelona managed to pull back two goals before the half after Ronaldinho scored a penalty and another masterful goal from the edge of the box. At that point, Barca were set to go through and one more goal would have sunk Chelsea. Barcelona started off the second half with fluid attacking football and looked almost certain to score, but were denied by Cech on several occassions. If Cech had not pulled off magnificent saves to deny Deco, Iniesta, Belleti, and Puyol, Chelsea would probably have conceded more than two goals. Cech's brilliance allowed Chelsea to hold on, before Terry finally scored Chelsea's fourth goal which saw Barcelona crash out of the Champs League. I do not know who was named the man-of-the-match, but in my eyes Petr Cech was Chelsea's hero.

If Manchester United are to improve their Champions League chances, they definitely need to invest in a new keeper and let Carroll and Ricardo leave when their contracts expire at the end of the current season. Who should they sign? Well, ever since Carroll's howler against Lyon the papers have linked us to virtually every keeper on the transfer market. To compile a list of the keepers we've been linked with so far: Paul Robinson, Robert Green, Francesco Toldo, Antti Niemi, Mark Schwarzer, Carlos Kameni, Silvio Proto, Sebastien Frey, Andreas Isaksson, Timo Hildebrand, Jose Moreira, Jan Lastuvka, Carlo Cudicini, John Ruddy, Jussi Jaskaleinen, Jose Reina, Edwin Van De Sar, and Shay Given. Its a long list of keepers, some who are rubbish, some who are no better than Carroll, and some who have genuine potential to be a longterm replacement for Schmeichel. I haven't seen most of these keepers play, but Sir Alex has sent his scouts to all parts of Europe to monitor them and compile dossiers on them. In the summer Fergie is expected to make his choice, and hopefully after a series of duds, this time he will make the right choice.

(taken from http://m160ra.blogspot.com)

dredgfan
13 Mar 2005, 02:57 AM
give howard a chance. He won Keeper of the year during a full 2 years of hard high level soccer. he got stuck in a rut, grew up this year, and will be back to his greatest form once Carrol is out of Manchester.

nicephoras
13 Mar 2005, 04:11 AM
If you'll recall, Howard won it for half a year. Over the course of that full year its impossible to argue he was the best keeper in England.

listen_up_fergie
13 Mar 2005, 05:38 AM
give howard a chance. He won Keeper of the year during a full 2 years of hard high level soccer. he got stuck in a rut, grew up this year, and will be back to his greatest form once Carrol is out of Manchester.

Carroll and Ricardo are probably (hopefully) going to leave this summer on a free transfer as their contracts are ending. This leaves Howard as our only senior keeper, so either way we need to bring in a new keeper. There are definitely keepers out there who are better than Howard, so if we're going to bring in a new keeper, we might as well bring in an excellent one rather than just another average keeper.

Teso Dos Bichos
13 Mar 2005, 07:26 PM
Great thread.

I'm not sure about who to go for, but we definately need a confident, vocal and imposing keeper. Fergie needs to pick his number 1 target and then get him, regardless of the cost.

billyireland
13 Mar 2005, 07:44 PM
Guess who folks?





























Guess who I'm going to say?

































Go on... one guesss...



















Don't be boring, guess!



























That's right....

























SHAY GIVEN (unless Casillas is available on a Bosman and is willing to come here)

Teso Dos Bichos
13 Mar 2005, 09:23 PM
You have me convinced. :D

listen_up_fergie
13 Mar 2005, 10:40 PM
SHAY GIVEN (unless Casillas is available on a Bosman and is willing to come here)

Any chance of there being an Irish bias? ;)

Given is a good keeper, but then again for the amount we would probably have to pay for him I'm sure we could find far better keepers. From what I've heard of Kameni, he seems to be a very good keeper and we can get him for fairly cheap because there is a minimum fee release clause in his contract. Frey shouldn't be too expensive either, because Parma are in debt. Casillas would be terrific, but he's probably going to sign a new contract with Real.

Leto
13 Mar 2005, 10:50 PM
Any chance of there being an Irish bias? ;)

Given is a good keeper, but then again for the amount we would probably have to pay for him I'm sure we could find far better keepers. From what I've heard of Kameni, he seems to be a very good keeper and we can get him for fairly cheap because there is a minimum fee release clause in his contract. Frey shouldn't be too expensive either, because Parma are in debt. Casillas would be terrific, but he's probably going to sign a new contract with Real.

Yeah, but just for once wouldn't you like to get a keeper who you know will be good, instead of a possible? ;)

billyireland
14 Mar 2005, 01:47 PM
Yeah, but just for once wouldn't you like to get a keeper who you know will be good, instead of a possible? ;)
Exactly. If I were Ferguson, I would settle for nothing other than a keeper chosen at the top level as Given has... he has been doing it as well as almost anybody in the EPL (with a horrible defence), has seemingly never played poorly for Ireland in a good 60 caps (against the vast majority of top teams in the world), has proven himself to be quality in Europe (both the UEFA Cup & Champion's League), and has had multiple displays that simply boggle the mind (looking for one? How about vs. Spurs at the weekend (where he was voted MOTM), or Arsenal a few weeks back). Not only is he still relatively young for a keepr (28, iirc), but he has proven to stand the test of time and (if it is your thing) he would continue the strong UK/Irish base United has had down the years. There is seemingly no downside to buying Shay Given.

So price is a worry? Well if Shay has the choice between a team that was not far off relegation earlier in the season, is choc-full of egos 'n' arseholes, realistically won't go very far in thge near future and has for yeares on end now provided him with almost no quality defenders (Woodgate was always injured and Bramble only came a few weeks back) or one of the richest, most glamorous clubs in the world, the most successful club in England over the past dozen years, a club that is always a favourite in England and Europe, a club known for the good spirit and professional attitudes amongst it's players, a club that plays as a unit and perhaps the tipping point, a club with qulity defenders (Ferdinand, Heinze, Neville and some youngsters like Pique & Spector). If we go and make a bid for Given, all he has to do is say he wants to go, and Newcastle will have little choice; we just have to hope tey don't win the UEFA &/or FA cup this season; the perfect situation would be to demolish Newcastle like we did Southampton, let the man see the difference in the defenses in person.

Oh and don't worry about injuries... he has missed ONE professional game in 4 and a half years (and it was because of his daughter's birth)... Newcastle conceeded 4 that day to modest opposition, iirc.

Motterman
14 Mar 2005, 01:49 PM
Exactly. If I were Ferguson, I would settle for nothing other than a keeper chosen at the top level as Given has...

Don't worry billy, the day after we play Newcastle in the FA Cup, there will surely be fifteen people on here clamoring for Fergie to sign him up..... as usual. :rolleyes:

Achtung
14 Mar 2005, 01:50 PM
New thread for the SGFC? Or do they actually have to be United players first? ;)

billyireland
14 Mar 2005, 02:06 PM
New thread for the SGFC? Or do they actually have to be United players first? ;)
Hhhmmm... You've given me an idea ;)

50 Euro
14 Mar 2005, 04:02 PM
New thread for the SGFC? Or do they actually have to be United players first? ;)
I'm in, though I must admit all these damn fan clubs and player-specific threads are getting out of hand ;)

billyireland
14 Mar 2005, 09:18 PM
Just a little experiment... would Given make your top 1-2 choices as who we should get this year? He plays for Newcastle and is 28 (maybe 29) years of age, and is a Republic of Ireland international, as well. Vote away...

lond2345
14 Mar 2005, 09:23 PM
United should get Kameni of Spanyol, a much better keeper.

Achtung
14 Mar 2005, 09:41 PM
I'd take him, but we'd have to be given the right price (pun intended). Teams know we're looking for a keeper, so that Man United tax will come into play. He's probably the best keeper currently available who we could realistically get. I also like that he has experience in Europe, plays for a team that has challenged for major silverware in the recent past, and speaks English.

house18
14 Mar 2005, 10:03 PM
I'd take him, though I like the rumor of us getting Iker Casillas better!

Leto
14 Mar 2005, 10:19 PM
I want Shay to get some medals, and you lot represent a better bet than Newcastle ;)

nicephoras
14 Mar 2005, 10:31 PM
billy, come on man, full disclosure. Are you
a) involved in a torrid affair with Mr. Given
b) related to Mr. Given
c) paid to provide publicity for Mr. Given
d) all of the above?