Brazil won't meet the host nation?

[Catenaccio-maldini]

i have read in some news (unfortunately i could not find the link again)... that the FIFA has arranged the next WC draw so that Brazil and Germany won't meet but in the final ?

Brazil is leading group F
Germany is leading group A ..

any idea ?

[Wilbo]

Sounds extremely unlikely! Plus, Brazil haven't even qualified yet!

[ugaaccountant]

i have read in some news (unfortunately i could not find the link again)... that the FIFA has arranged the next WC draw so that Brazil and Germany won't meet but in the final ?

Brazil is leading group F
Germany is leading group A ..

any idea ?

The seeded teams aren't in the draw. They are arranged any way FIFA wants unless there's some little known rule.

[Germanshepherd]

i have read in some news (unfortunately i could not find the link again)... that the FIFA has arranged the next WC draw so that Brazil and Germany won't meet but in the final ?

Brazil is leading group F
Germany is leading group A ..

any idea ?

Its impossible to arrange. How should Fifa know if both teams win their groups?

[Northern Light]

You're right about that. Plus, as far as I know, the leaders of the groups (with the exception of Germany leading group A) aren't fixed, yet.

[herewego]

Could be. Germany and Brazil were normaly seeded on top of the two halves of the schedules in the most worldcups during the decades because this both teams are the most successful in WC history. That´s one reason for the 2002 final has been the only worldcup game in history they met each other.

[Sagy]

Could be. Germany and Brazil were normaly seeded on top of the two halves of the schedules in the most worldcups during the decades because this both teams are the most successful in WC history. That´s one reason for the 2002 final has been the only worldcup game in history they met each other.
Sorry, but this is just not correct. At most two teams (Host and Last winner) are placed into a group, are other teams placed in a group by random draw. Since 1974 both Brazil and Germany were always group heads (= seeded teams) so it was impossible for them to meet in the first round. everything else is pure luck. For example, there is 28.6% chance that Brazil will be drawn into group F or H. In either case, if both Brazil and Germany win their group, or both finish 2nd) they can't meet until the finals. If this does happen it is NOT because they were "seeded on top of the two halves"

[neovox]

i have read in some news (unfortunately i could not find the link again)... that the FIFA has arranged the next WC draw so that Brazil and Germany won't meet but in the final ?

Brazil is leading group F
Germany is leading group A ..

any idea ?

I read the same news. And there is nothing new here. It has been so for a long time. It's a way to avoid the clash between Brazil and the host nation - the only exception is when the host nation is not a strong contender, not a favorite, like in the USA World Cup. I also read that the draw will never permit that Brazil and Argentina play against each other in the final game. Things are done in a way that teams from different continents meet in the final.

[Ombak]

I read the same news. And there is nothing new here. It has been so for a long time. It's a way to avoid the clash between Brazil and the host nation - the only exception is when the host nation is not a strong contender, not a favorite, like in the USA World Cup. I also read that the draw will never permit that Brazil and Argentina play against each other in the final game. Things are done in a way that teams from different continents meet in the final.

That's just speculation though. The draw is random (maybe with the exception of the current champion? not sure).

In 1994 Brazil would not have played the host if they had won their group btw.

[scaryice]

I read the same news. And there is nothing new here. It has been so for a long time. It's a way to avoid the clash between Brazil and the host nation - the only exception is when the host nation is not a strong contender, not a favorite, like in the USA World Cup. I also read that the draw will never permit that Brazil and Argentina play against each other in the final game. Things are done in a way that teams from different continents meet in the final.

I really doubt this is the case.

[unclesox]

Not sure if anyone explained this, but it is indeed possible to keep Germany and Brazil apart until the Final even though we have no idea who's qualified/how they'll finish/etc.
They did this during 2002, keeping Japan and Korea apart and assuring that each host country got to play all of their matches within their own country. The only exception would've been if Korea had reached the final (played in Japan) or if Japan had played in the third placed playoff (played in Korea).

Going back to the 1st round groups in 2002:


-- These teams were assured of playing all their matches in Korea (until the final):

Group B
Spain - Slovenia - Paraguay - South Africa

Group D
Korea - Poland - USA - Portugal

----------

-- These teams were assured of playing all their matches in Japan (until the 3rd place playoff):

Group F
Argentina - Nigeria - England - Sweden

Group H
Japan - Belgium - Russia - Tunisia

----------

These teams played the 1st round in Korea, then had to play any Knock-out stage (2nd round-to-Semifinal) matches in Japan:

Group A
France - Senegal - Uruguay - Denmark

Group C
Brazil - Turkey - China - Costa Rica

----------

These teams played the 1st round in Japan, then had to play any Knock-out stage matches in Korea:

Group E
Germany - Saudi Arabia - Republic Ireland - Cameroon


Group G
Italy - Ecuador - Croatia - Mexico


[A look at the knock-out stage 'bracket' (http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/t/s/g.html) shows that the left side was played in Japan, the right side in Korea.]

So even before the draw had been made, we knew that whichever teams were drawn into Groups B and D could not meet any of the teams from Groups F anf H until the Final or 3rd place playoff.
Likewise, the teams from Groups A and C could not play any of the teams from Groups E and G until the Final/3rd place playoff.

So it is possible to keep Germany and Brazil apart as long as the schedule of matches is drawn up before the Draw is made.
Once the field of 32 finalists is known, FIFA can then place a seeded team in such a way so that it doesn't meet another selected seeded team.

Damn, I'm starting to confuse myself. :eek: Am I making any sense here? :confused: :D

[Ombak]

Likewise, the teams from Groups A and C could not play any of the teams from Groups E and G until the Final/3rd place playoff.

So it is possible to keep Germany and Brazil apart as long as the schedule of matches is drawn up before the Draw is made.
Once all qualifying nations are known, FIFA can then place a seeded team in such a way so that it doesn't meet another seeded team.

Damn, I'm starting to confuse myself. :eek: Am I making any sense here? :confused: :D

No, it makes sense, and we can already figure out which group will/won't face which according to the schedule already posted.

The question is will Brazil be placed in a group, or, like other seeds, randomly drawn into one.

[unclesox]

No, it makes sense, and we can already figure out which group will/won't face which according to the schedule already posted.

The question is will Brazil be placed in a group, or, like other seeds, randomly drawn into one.
The author of this thread has said that Brazil will go into Group F and Germany into Group A.
I haven't looked at the schedule. Would this keep them apart until the final? :confused:

[Ombak]

The author of this thread has said that Brazil will go into Group F and Germany into Group A.
I haven't looked at the schedule. Would this keep them apart until the final? :confused:

Actually if they were in those two groups they would meet in the semis. I think until Brazil is officially qualified we won't know if FIFA plans on placing them in a group as defending champs or if they will be drawn randomly as will other seeds.

[unclesox]

I just went over the 2006 finals schedule
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/06/pdf/matchshedule_e.pdf

As it stands now, if Germany is in Group A and Brazil in Group F, there is no way Brazil and Germany can purposefully avoid each other at this stage. We won't know until the 1st round of the finals is completed.
FIFA drew up the schedule in such a way that teams that are grouped together in the 1st Round cannot meet again until the Final (or 3rd place).
Frankly, this is the way it should be. ;) I hope FIFA doesn't change it.

[unclesox]

Actually if they were in those two groups they would meet in the semis.
If they both win or both finish second in their groups (A and F) then they would avoid each other until the Final.
If one wins their group and the other finishes second in theirs, they would meet in the semi-finals.

[Emelectric15]

I read the same news. And there is nothing new here. It has been so for a long time. It's a way to avoid the clash between Brazil and the host nation - the only exception is when the host nation is not a strong contender, not a favorite, like in the USA World Cup. I also read that the draw will never permit that Brazil and Argentina play against each other in the final game. Things are done in a way that teams from different continents meet in the final.


What does that mean, is that a new rule or somthing? because Brazil have eliminated Argentina twice already in the past. I hate how a lot of times they fix the groups so that Brazil will play against other conmebol teams in the early rounds, if you think thats logical for a European seed, I would agree since they have 16 Births, but Conmebol have 4 1/2. In the past good teams like Chile, Peru and Argentina could have go far but had to play Brazil in 1/8 and 1/4 finals. I think they should try to change that it looks like they have, I don't know it's something to ponder atleast.

[Ombak]

If they both win or both finish second in their groups (A and F) then they would avoid each other until the Final.
If one wins their group and the other finishes second in theirs, they would meet in the semi-finals.

You're right, thanks for noticing that.

[Ombak]

What does that mean, is that a new rule or somthing? because Brazil have eliminated Argentina twice already in the past. I hate how a lot of times they fix the groups so that Brazil will play against other conmebol teams in the early rounds, if you think thats logical for a European seed, I would agree since they have 16 Births, but Conmebol have 4 1/2. In the past good teams like Chile, Peru and Argentina could have go far but had to play Brazil in 1/8 and 1/4 finals. I think they should try to change that it looks like they have, I don't know it's something to ponder atleast.

I'm not sure where he read it but it's not true.

[neovox]

i have read in some news (unfortunately i could not find the link again)... that the FIFA has arranged the next WC draw so that Brazil and Germany won't meet but in the final ?

Brazil is leading group F
Germany is leading group A ..

any idea ?

I found the article. It’s published (in Portuguese) by O Globo (an important newspaper here) and reproduced by the media.

Sábado, 12 de março de 2005, 16h11

Brasil e Alemanha podem decidir Copa de 2006

A Fifa já planeja um meio de realizar o confronto entre Brasil e Alemanha (país sede) na Copa do Mundo de 2006 apenas na final. Segundo o jornal O Globo deste sábado, a Seleção Brasileira (caso se classifique nas Eliminatórias) poderá escolher em qual grupo ficará, por ser a atual campeã mundial e não ter tido sua vaga garantida. Em acordo com a Fifa, o presidente da CBF, Ricardo Teixeira, optou pelo Grupo F. Assim, se a Alemanha terminar em primeiro do Grupo A e o Brasil em primeiro da sua chave, os dois países só poderiam se encontrar na decisão. De acordo com o diário, a decisão foi tomada na reunião do Comitê Executivo da Fifa, esta semana, em Zurique. Teixeira disse que a vantagem de serem líderes dos Grupos A e F é que as equipes só jogarão nos maiores estádios da Copa, que ficam situados em quatro cidades (Berlim, Dortmund, Munique e Frankfurt). http://esportes.terra.com.br/mundial2006/interna/0,,OI486837-EI1736,00.html

It basically says that Brazil will be able to choose in which group will be seeded, because although being the World Champions they are playing the qualifiers. It also says that the CBF’s president, Ricardo Teixeira, choose the Group F. So, with Germany and Brazil finishing first in Groups A and F respectively, they would meet only in the Final. Teixeira said that being the head of Group F is a big advantage because Brazil will play only in the biggest stadiums, in four cities. The same goes for Germany in Group A.