The anti-diving topic

[Arsenal_pwns_all]

A topic from another board made me post this topic; I will quote the whole of the first post of the topic:

I like Pires for his skills, he's a great player and he's been great for Arsenal, but I've really had it with his diving, he goes down so often you'd think he was making a blue movie. Its pathetic.

There was actually contact today, and so most referee's wouldn't have had the guts to book him in case they'd got it wrong, but today's ref stuck to his guns and well done to him because of it, they really do need to be stricter on diving but sadly very few refs will have the bravery to make big decisions when it's in the penalty area.

The ironic thing is, if he'd stayed on his feet and carried on, he would have been one-on-oe with the keeper cos the defender was on the floor. Cole was in the same scenario against Utd, if he'd stayed on his feet rather than throwing himself down, he'd have been in a fantastic position to either shoot or tap it back for someone to finish off. But as usual they disgrace their profession AND lose their clubs a great goalscoring opportunity simply because they're such great nancy boys.

I don't know what the point in this post was in all honesty, I just really wanted to moan about diving. I hate the way Rooney, C Ronaldo, Nistelrooy, Neville, Makalele, Lampard and so on all dive, yet I can't criticise them without having to criticise players from the team I support as well, and I don't like having to do that cos I'm a supporter, and moaning about the players isn't supportive. So yeah, well done to today's ref, that sure shu Pires up.

All they need to do now is book players for crowding around and pressuring the referee, and also book Rooney for swearing non-stop throughout every single match, even if decisions are going his way. Stupid fat neanderthal.

Actually, I agree with him that our team dives wayyyy too often for its own good. It is not just Pires and Cole; a lot of players in Arsenal goes to ground too easily. And this fact is hurting us; look at how many times free kicks and penalties should have been given to us and how they weren't. It is easy to point fingers and say that other teams dive too (*cough Rooney *cough), but does diving really help the team? I think that the benefit you can gain from diving is not worth the penalty (no puns intended) you get for being branded a diving team.

[daedalus]

While I agree that many of our players do go to the ground far more easily than they should, Pires (for all the frequency he does) is one I'm tempted to give a bit more leeway as far as this goes, given that he's already tore a knee up and had to deal with a fairly ugly challenge recently.

Of course, I still wish he'd not do so as often. Meh.

[nicephoras]

Um, Lampard and Makelele dive? Huh? Lampard certainly doesn't and Makelele's never in the box; why would he dive? (Although that incident with Zikos was disgraceful.)
Duff (especially with his back to the ball) and Drogba go down too easily occasionally, and Eidur will take the occasional dive. I really can't stand that. Other than that, I can't think of anyone. I know its the pet theory that Robben dives, but he actually doesn't. Some of his goals have been scored after it'd have been far easier to dive. Like the Everton goal, or after he slallomed through the Arsenal defense to put his shot off Almunia. He could easily have pulled a Rooney there. ;)

[yossarian]

Pires definitely goes to ground a bit too easily....although I really think that yesterday he got booked more on reputation rather than because it was deserved. There was contact in that tackle...not enough for a penalty...but contact nevertheless. A "play on" would've been the fairest result.

[babyduck85]

I can't stand diving. I swear, it pained me when I first realised that Pires does it. When I first got into football, the constant diving was one of the many reasons why I absolutely hated ManUre. But now I've come to accept that our players do it too. All I can say is, I really hope they get booked and if manager's are somehow encouraging this, they should really stop.

I agree with the point that in the long run, it really does hurt more than help. Once you get the rep of a diver, refs are going to be really hard on you. I remember several games ago, Pires should've gotten a pen in the box and didn't; obviously because of his reputation. I know he has the horrible injury as an excuse and maybe it's totally valid, but there must be a better way.

Still, the cynical part of me thinks it's just a part of the game and it'll always be there. :rolleyes:

[tmaker]

Since I have Washington State soccer championships I have to go to in less than an hour, I can't reply to this the way I'd like. So I'll put this visually.
These are from my files as a soccer ref. The first one is one of the most famous penalty calls in history--more famous because the ref Esse Baharmast received threats etc for calling it, being thus accused of racism, etc, etc, etc.

The second is simply typical. Note the referee not blowing the whistle in the background.

When incidents like these are whistled by refs who needn't fear a barrage of hate mail, perhaps forwards will stop diving. But I doubt it.

[billyho96]

It makes the players look silly, spoils their reputation (Pires and Rooney) for what? In the last two years, I can think of only only penalty that has been award to Arsenal on a dive, (pomey at highbury last year, pires)

More often than not the player just gets glared at by the ref and looses possession.

[phishy]

I know its the pet theory that Robben dives, but he actually doesn't.

if he played for, umm.. (thinks of a chelsea rival).. fulham? anyways, if he played for a different club, i guarantee you wouldnt be so damn biased.
go watch the european championship match vs umm... sweden i think.. the ref wasnt having any of his antics/diving/simulation..

[Val1]

Diving sucks, whether it is our guys or their guys.

And, as phishy pointed out, it is human nature not to see it in our guys as much as in their guys. And one of things I've been impressed about this board is that most here will call out dives, even when it is Pires, who is a diver, or Ashley Cole, who usually doesn't stoop to that stupidness. Kudos to you all.

[Przybylinski]

If they gave a yellow for diving half the Mexican and Argentinian leagues would have to play with 6 a game. :D

I think that diving is part of the game, but when it's as obvious as many of the dives we've seen in the EPL this year, they deserve to be carded. Pires goes down way too much. The funny thing is Flamini seems to spend a good deal of time down on the pitch, but I don't know how much of that is diving verses strength and footing. Players have to know the limitation to what they can get away with. If a player is right on you and you can pull it off, great, but some of the dives the guy misses by a foot and still they go down.

[nicephoras]

if he played for, umm.. (thinks of a chelsea rival).. fulham? anyways, if he played for a different club, i guarantee you wouldnt be so damn biased.
go watch the european championship match vs umm... sweden i think.. the ref wasnt having any of his antics/diving/simulation..

Given the rest of my post, I'm hardly very biased.

[Martin Daoust]

Diving is epidemic in Football - there is no team that doesn't have divers and no player who simply won't dive. I was at the Cup Final versus Southampton, the one where Henry was praised for not going down when fouled in the opening minutes, evenn by the Southampton players, and actually WAS booked for diving later in the match. But it is not merely diving but simulation to draw cards and sendings-off that is epidemic in football today and again all teams have had players and do it and any player is capable. There was Rivaldo's obscene cheating at Japan/Korea 02 or the Campbell/Solskajer incidident in which Solskajer covered his face writhing as if struck in the face when there is film that shows he CLEARLY was NOT struck in the face although Campbell recieved punishment as if he was and there was no punishment of Solskajer.
It doesn't matter whether it is Robert Pires, Ruud VanNistlerooy, Arjen Robben, Rivaldo or just some squad player this behavior is disgraceful. The problem is there is no REAL punishment for it. Only a very few dives are punished even with a booking, and some of the efforts to fake severe injury go unpunished at all. It is time for football to act and to invest in video at all major grounds and to charge the divers and the other cheats. And forget the one-to-three match bans. Try five-to-ten match bans, and even season-long for repeat offenders. Only when cheating truly doesn't prosper will it come ot an end. Players want to play, and teams what players who will be available to play. If the punishment for cheating threatens all that, cheating will be severely curtailed, and football will be much better off for that...

[antifan]

Just to play devil's advocate, i would like to express my full support for diving and all practitioners of this art. You must admit it does require a very specialized skill in order to go airborne when you see an opposing players boot within striking distance. Anyone can just fall down, but it takes something more than that to really sell a blatant dive.No one ever recognizes the effort and desire that players like Pires show when they demonstrate this nefarious skill. Bobby is willing to ruin his own reputation as a sportsman just to gain an advantage for his team. Say what you will, to me, that is the ultimate commitment to winning and true team spirit. ;)

[Catfish]

I can't stand diving. I swear, it pained me when I first realised that Pires does it.

Me too. It is the only thing that I do not like about football. I'm ashamed when any Arsenal player does it and I yell at them just as much as a footballer on another club. My usual line is, "GET UP, you disgrace to the sport!"

[rgrayson]

As much as some people really hate it, and so do I, diving and feigning injury have really become part of the game. The only way to get it out is to actually give cards for actions like that. Then again I suppose officials can never be sure.

[Ian Lozada]

As much as some people really hate it, and so do I, diving and feigning injury have really become part of the game. The only way to get it out is to actually give cards for actions like that. Then again I suppose officials can never be sure.

Maybe we should just hand divers over to the Kangaroo Court. I'm sure we could come up with something sufficiently shameful to discourage future offenses.

[Martin Daoust]

As much as some people really hate it, and so do I, diving and feigning injury have really become part of the game. The only way to get it out is to actually give cards for actions like that. Then again I suppose officials can never be sure.

That's why you use the video to get these people. I am no fan of refs at all, especially in England, but when it comes to diving, while some refs will allow themselves to be "conned", like Mike Riley, referees can genuinely be conned. and don't have the benefit of replay or ideal angles at all times to interpret things(I can't believe I'm saying this)Think back to Campbell and Solskajer. The first replay they showed, where you are behimnd the players looked horrific and made it look certain Halsey got it right. But when they showed the replay from in front of them, you could see not only that not only wasn't the red warranted but Solskajer should have been charged. But the one flaw, I realize is in what I just wrote - the FA has to be WILLING to look at the incidents honestly and deal with them appropriately, or else its pointless and we'll be annoyed and infuriated for another 20 years by this crap...

[rgrayson]

That's why you use the video to get these people. I am no fan of refs at all, especially in England, but when it comes to diving, while some refs will allow themselves to be "conned", like Mike Riley, referees can genuinely be conned. and don't have the benefit of replay or ideal angles at all times to interpret things(I can't believe I'm saying this)Think back to Campbell and Solskajer. The first replay they showed, where you are behimnd the players looked horrific and made it look certain Halsey got it right. But when they showed the replay from in front of them, you could see not only that not only wasn't the red warranted but Solskajer should have been charged. But the one flaw, I realize is in what I just wrote - the FA has to be WILLING to look at the incidents honestly and deal with them appropriately, or else its pointless and we'll be annoyed and infuriated for another 20 years by this crap...

This is very true. So lets say they decide to implement replay for plays/fouls where the call is questionable. Should the clock stop for the replay or add more extra time? Its something the heads of the leagues should look at and probably are. I think the goal line camera/device will come first though...

[Martin Daoust]

This is very true. So lets say they decide to implement replay for plays/fouls where the call is questionable. Should the clock stop for the replay or add more extra time? Its something the heads of the leagues should look at and probably are. I think the goal line camera/device will come first though...

No, use the video after the fact, as they already do(I'm clarifying because I'm confused about your post actually)charge players who are found to be diving or cheating. Bring them in and hit them with the bans as you do the those guilty of violent conduct unseen by the refs, is all...

[jwaldman11]

This is very true. So lets say they decide to implement replay for plays/fouls where the call is questionable. Should the clock stop for the replay or add more extra time? Its something the heads of the leagues should look at and probably are. I think the goal line camera/device will come first though...

Forget about ever getting instant replay in soccer/football, except for the goal line camera, especially on foul calls. No other sport allows officials to review foul or penalty calls. If they did, games would last about four or five hours, with much of that spent on replay.

As for penalizing divers after the fact, first and foremost, it has to be called on the pitch. If players start accumulating yellows for diving, and that results in a suspension, then the problem takes care of itself. Maybe for dives that result in a game-changing call, you can fine or suspend after the fact, but five to ten game suspensions? That's going overboard, particularly when most "violent conduct" now gets, at most, five games. While diving looks bad, I'd rather see that than RvN attempting to break Cole's leg. Make the punishments for violent conduct more severe first, and let everything else line up behind it.