Is this the future? Can we compete?

[Dark Savante]

I've been reading a few boards today and came across this at the Cafe:

---------------------------Cech----------------------
------------------------(Cudicini)----------------------

Ferreira-----------Carvalho------Terry-------------Cole
(Johnson)----------(Huth)------(Gallas)----------(Bridge)

-------Gerrard-----------Makelele--------Lampard-----
-------(Parker)---------(Smertin)--------(Tiago)------

-------Joaquin-----------Adriano----------Robben------
--------(Duff)-----------(Drogba)----------(Cole)------

:eek: I have to admit to finding that quite a frightening proposition.

That is Football Manager-esque in its ridiculousness! Now seriously, we as a normal club with financial issues to concern ourselves with...can we actually compete against that for the league title?

It actually pains me to say it, but, if they assemble that lot they would have no excuse not to win the CL at least twice on the bounce! :eek:

Anywho, as a Manchester Untied fan/supporter, with the condition of our team, considering the ages of our stalwarts and the almost impossible task of replacing them...can you see us competing against that juggernuat ?

For myself personally I would say yes..up until the point they actually managed to land themselves one of the best strikers on the planet... With an Adriano..I can't see anyone but them lifting the title for a long time.

[Rei de Boston]

Gerrard, Joaquin, Adriano that is some serious cash being laid out. I know Chelsea have been willing to do that in the past but you also have to look at the wage bill there. That combined with the posted loses from the year makes that a VERY expensive proposition.

While I agree that team would be very very strong realistically I think it would be tough to put together. Joaquin, if I remember right, is looking to stay in Spain so it would take some big money to move him.

Gerrard and Adriano might be in the cards but then you would be sitting a 24 million striker. There is also the issue of playing time. Yes big time players all want to win but they also all want to play.

As for us competing with that fantasy team, it would be very difficult but it is that kind of challenge that makes the sports worl and football so interesting.

[nicephoras]

Reading this brought a smile to my face. :)
But its highly unlikely. I certainly don't think we'll get Cole, I think Carlo will move on and I don't expect to see Adriano at Chelsea this summer.

[johno]

In reality we don't have to compete against that Chelsea side in anything but 3 or 4 games a year... if we get our points where we are supposed to it will always be close and a win is possible if we can beat them when we need to... it will be tough, but doable... still, if they continue spending at this rate we need to sell our own tv rights and start to build our own fantasy team...

[Miles Brasher]

All this coming from a Manu supporter is funny, do you not realise that there are half a dozen clubs in the last 10 years that have been saying the same thing about you guys...

Only Arsenal have managed to compete against Manu over this period of time, and now it's time for you to see how you like it, so nah nah de nah nah ;)

[Motterman]

All this coming from a Manu supporter is funny, do you not realise that there are half a dozen clubs in the last 10 years that have been saying the same thing about you guys...

Only Arsenal have managed to compete against Manu over this period of time, and now it's time for you to see how you like it, so nah nah de nah nah ;)

Ironically, it's exactly your example that gives me hope that we can compete and still win silverware. :D

[prk166]

In reality we don't have to compete against that Chelsea side in anything but 3 or 4 games a year... if we get our points where we are supposed to it will always be close and a win is possible if we can beat them when we need to... it will be tough, but doable... still, if they continue spending at this rate we need to sell our own tv rights and start to build our own fantasy team...

Kenyon (*@#&$^ *@&#$*@&#^$#*&^#@*&$^#!!!!!!!!!!!!) claims that within 5 years they won't be losing money. If that's going to be the case, they won't be able to continue to spend billions like they have.

[haven]

The short answer is yes.

It's really an issue of declining returns on investment at the extreme levels of spending.

As someone pointed out, United only play Chelsea in the league twice per season. Meaning all of 6 points is up for grabs between the two teams. The problem with deeming a "super team" invincible, is that extremely good teams already capture a very large % of available points. To win the title, you need around 80 points most years. That's out of 114 points on offer, meaning that you've dropped only 34 possible points.

A lot of those dropped points occur in games where you annihilate the opposition in all terms but goals. Fortuitous events will happen for the opposition no matter what (though they can be limited). Penalties and red cards happen. Bad referring decisions happen. Injuries after the 3rd sub happen. Horrible pitches happen. Sometimes even the best 11 players and your 3 available subs collectively have terrible days. Sometimes the other team has a player that makes magical things happen.

United and Arsenal are already vastly superior to the opposition each time they step on the field against an EPL team other than Chelsea. Sometimes they still don't get the result. And increasing the qualitative advantage to whatever extent Chelsea managed won't alter that result as much as you might imagine.

And no matter how many great players you buy, those problems still remain.

Those problems will keep a team like Chelsea within the reach of other elite clubs. They're very likely to be favorites for the foreseeable future (until Abramovitch leaves or cuts his investment). But I seriously doubt you'll see anything like the Norwegian league, where Rosenborg wins every year.

To be honest, I think you'll see the sort of domination United maintained in the late 90's.

As an afterthought, I'd like to note that it's not quite the same financial domination as United. Man Utd always had meaningful financial constraints that factored heavily in football decisions. Chelsea almost completely lack these considerations. One has market-defined limits, the other does not. And that's an enormous difference for other teams. Man Utd could always conceivably be caught. Mismanagement would result in its losing its premier financial status (though it would be a big club no matter what). That's not true of Chelsea. And it's scary.

[Nicodemus145]

Gerrard, Joaquin, Adriano that is some serious cash being laid out. I know Chelsea have been willing to do that in the past but you also have to look at the wage bill there. That combined with the posted loses from the year makes that a VERY expensive proposition.


Agreed. This is still a business for Abrom., and if he can win the CL and Prem with a brand new squad and a brand new coach, why dig deep now?

[bigtoga]

Hasn't Joaquin basically come out and drooled all over Real Madrid in an attempt to become a Galactico? I don't imagine that he goes to Chelsea...

[nicephoras]

Hasn't Joaquin basically come out and drooled all over Real Madrid in an attempt to become a Galactico? I don't imagine that he goes to Chelsea...

His father has already said that while Joaquin would prefer Real, he would go to Chelsea if Chelsea pay more.
Sounds like another winger I know....................

[haven]

His father has already said that while Joaquin would prefer Real, he would go to Chelsea if Chelsea pay more.
Sounds like another winger I know....................

...or more realistically, like any winger you know.

[Dark Savante]

All this coming from a Manu supporter is funny, do you not realise that there are half a dozen clubs in the last 10 years that have been saying the same thing about you guys...

I don't agree. What Chelsea will/can do is nothing like what we did. We were winning becuase of our midfield, Cantona and GK. Arsenal had the best back-line for most of the 90's and Shearer was the best striker in the league along with Ian Wright. We had Andy Cole missing sitters during our most dominant run. Be fair, our strike-force was not the best bunch of names in the world(even in England) before they came to us - we made them what they were. Yorke, Ole, and Teddy were hardly names people feared before they came to us.


Only Arsenal have managed to compete against Manu over this period of time,
Not really true. The spice-boys blew it on numerous occassion, Blackburn and Leeds won. Keegan's Newcastle capitulated and to Arsenal's credit their bar was always high and forced us to raise ours. It was not our fault mis-management caused others to collapse. The potential situation we face is very different. If Chelsea manage to get that team together they will have a top5 player in the world in each position! We've never had that. We never will either.


and now it's time for you to see how you like it, so nah nah de nah nah ;)
lol :p

[nirvaanfc]

Dida
(Abbiati)
Cafu Nesta Maldini Kaladze
(Simic) (Stam) (Costacurta) (Pancaro)
Seedorf Pirlo Gattuso
(Ambrosini) (Dhorasoo) (Brocchi)
Kaka
(Rui Costa)
Shevchenko Crespo
(Inzaghi) (Tomasson)

A.C.Milan 2004/2005 and my JUVE are giving them hell now!

Add to that their almost finalized summer additions include:-
Alberto Gilardino (Parma, FW)
Marek Jankulovski (Udinese, DF)
And strong links to:-
Christian Chivu (Roma, DF)
Daniele Bonera (Parma, DF)
Vincenzo Iaquinta (Udinese, FW)
David Pizarro (Udinese, MD)

IT can be done to compete with teams that have world class players on starting 11 and then great substitutes, not a a few attacking 'Galacticos' but a world class 11 and subs!

There's always hope, but i like what Chelsea has got!
Arsenal and Man Utd need to step up and spend wisely and get players to replace their weak players, GK and DFs.

Stop moaning and start preparing, for years it was too EASY for Man Utd, now is where a great team can shine through and build a new generation of competitors who face a a dogfight not a cakewalk to Premiership crown!
Next season should be great, Chelsea are champions wished my boy Zola could have tasted it but c'est la vie!

[nicephoras]

...or more realistically, like any winger you know.

Money usually talks. True dat.

[gvmsmiddie]

Man U is definitely in trouble. Chelsea will only get better, Arsenal has a good crop of youngsters, and I feel United slipping into third among the big 3. United is getting a bit old, Keane is up there, and Neville, Giggs, and Scholes are hitting around the 30 mark. I think Fergie needs to really bring in some top guns in order for Man U to regain the crown next year. Here's who I think we should buy:
Forward: we're pretty set, but we dont have a real speed demon. Any fast striker would be appreciated. Not sure who, tho.
Midfield: our center is getting old, so a center middie would be appreciated. A player like Xavi or Iniesta from Barca would help. Essien?
Defense: We're pretty thick, but Gary N is getting old, so a wingback is needed.
Goalie: Our biggest problem. I know we just signed a 16 year old, but when will he be ready? I think we should go after a young keeper somewhere.

[gvmsmiddie]

Man U is definitely in trouble. Chelsea will only get better, Arsenal has a good crop of youngsters, and I feel United slipping into third among the big 3. United is getting a bit old, Keane is up there, and Neville, Giggs, and Scholes are hitting around the 30 mark. I think Fergie needs to really bring in some top guns in order for Man U to regain the crown next year. Here's who I think we should buy:
Forward: we're pretty set, but we dont have a real speed demon. Any fast striker would be appreciated. Not sure who, tho.
Midfield: our center is getting old, so a center middie would be appreciated. A player like Xavi or Iniesta from Barca would help. Essien?
Defense: We're pretty thick, but Gary N is getting old, so a wingback is needed.
Goalie: Our biggest problem. I know we just signed a 16 year old, but when will he be ready? I think we should go after a young keeper somewhere.

[QuaresmaRonaldo]

Chelsea seem to be interested in Joaquin and Gerrard. For some reason, I think Mourinho will sign Nuno Valente (FC Porto leftback - very solid), instead of Ashley Cole. N. Valente is probably one of the most underated, almost as good as Ashley Cole, a bit older though, but alot cheaper. Chelsea also have Bridge, who's pretty young and solid. Chelsea will also sign Benfica 18 year old sensation, Manuel Fernandes. That's the rumour anyhow.

As for Manchester United, they seem to have interest in Essien, who's 22 and amazing for Lyon, also to have interest in Custodio (Sporting Lisbon defensive mid), as well as Moreira (22 yr old - Benfica keeper).

Arsenal need a good holding mid - Maniche is a great option, and RB - Miguel is a great option.

Chelsea and Mourinho are showing that Foreigners can get the job done.

[Dark Savante]

Remember this little ditty? And so it comes to pass:

---------------------------Cech----------------------
------------------------(Cudicini)----------------------

Ferreira-----------Gallas--------Terry---------------Del Horno
(Geremi)----------(Huth)------(Carvalho)--------------(TBA)

-------Ballack-----------Makelele--------Lampard-----
-------(Essien)-----------(Diarra)--------(Gudjohnsen)------

-------Duff------------Shevchenko----------J.Cole------
--------(SWP)-----------(Drogba)----------(Duff)------

And this is what some of you admire? :o

---

Wow, I hope mach comments in here... this is the team you think we can challenge?

[50 Euro]

Remember this little ditty? And so it comes to pass:

---------------------------Cech----------------------
------------------------(Cudicini)----------------------

Ferreira-----------Gallas--------Terry---------------Del Horno
(Geremi)----------(Huth)------(Carvalho)--------------(TBA)

-------Ballack-----------Makelele--------Lampard-----
-------(Essien)-----------(Diarra)--------(Gudjohnsen)------

-------Duff------------Shevchenko----------J.Cole------
--------(SWP)-----------(Drogba)----------(Duff)------

And this is what some of you admire? :o

---

Wow, I hope mach comments in here... this is the team you think we can challenge?
Yes.