Situation Where USMNT is Most Vulnerable

[LuckyNat]

Over the last four years or so, it has always seemed to me that the Nats are most vulnerable defensively in set-piece situations. More times than not, I get that bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when the other team is lining up for a corner kick or free kick attempt in the final third. Of course, it's worse against taller (e.g. Germanic, Scandanavian) teams, but seems to be a more general dynamic.

Specifically, my hypothesis is that the proportion of USMNT goals allowed that come by way of set pieces (vs. the run of play) is higher than that of many/most countries. Can anyone confirm/deny this perception? What do you think our achilles heel is?

When I say 'set pieces', I am (perhaps obviously) excluding PKs....just FKs and CKs.

If my theory is true, it seems eminantly coachable . . .

I'm new in these parts, so be gentle. Okay, go.

[MLSNHTOWN]

I agree that against taller teams the US has been vulnerable in the past on set pieces.

The reason? The US has been behind the curve a bit in building soccer as a mainstream sport. As a result, a lot of young atheltic kids play football, baseball, hockey, basketball etc. In basketball and in particular football, kids who are tall or large (6' +) are clear advantages. So maybe some of the taller kids go and play other sports or are placed between the pipes.

In addition, our fastest and/or more skillful players over the last 10+ years haven't exactly been big. Reyna, Donovan, Beasley, etc. aren't all that physically imposing on set pieces.

I think we are improving on set pieces as our athleticism in soccer catches up. As we get better as a country, our ability to bring forward physically imposing skilled midfielders, defenders and forwards will improve. You are seeing it already with our defenders. Take our pool now.....Gooch, Marshall, Pope, Bocanegra, etc. are all very physically imposing players. Throw in a target forward in Casey/Ching or McBride and the physically imposing players on our team improves. Granted we still have Donovan and Beasley, but that is only because we want someone to lead the counterattack.

[SamsArmySam]

Over the last four years or so, it has always seemed to me that the Nats are most vulnerable defensively in set-piece situations. More times than not, I get that bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when the other team is lining up for a corner kick or free kick attempt in the final third. Of course, it's worse against taller (e.g. Germanic, Scandanavian) teams, but seems to be a more general dynamic.

Specifically, my hypothesis is that the proportion of USMNT goals allowed that come by way of set pieces (vs. the run of play) is higher than that of many/most countries. Can anyone confirm/deny this perception? What do you think our achilles heel is?

When I say 'set pieces', I am (perhaps obviously) excluding PKs....just FKs and CKs.

If my theory is true, it seems eminantly coachable . . .

I'm new in these parts, so be gentle. Okay, go.

I like the theory. The WC02 loss to Germany in particular stands out as an example.

And then there's the flip side, too. Our SCORING RATE on set pieces is awful. Also seems entirely coachable.

[DoctorD]

I agree that against taller teams the US has been vulnerable in the past on set pieces.

The reason? The US has been behind the curve a bit in building soccer as a mainstream sport. As a result, a lot of young atheltic kids play football, baseball, hockey, basketball etc. In basketball and in particular football, kids who are tall or large (6' +) are clear advantages. So maybe some of the taller kids go and play other sports or are placed between the pipes.

In addition, our fastest and/or more skillful players over the last 10+ years haven't exactly been big. Reyna, Donovan, Beasley, etc. aren't all that physically imposing on set pieces.

I think we are improving on set pieces as our athleticism in soccer catches up. As we get better as a country, our ability to bring forward physically imposing skilled midfielders, defenders and forwards will improve. You are seeing it already with our defenders. Take our pool now.....Gooch, Marshall, Pope, Bocanegra, etc. are all very physically imposing players. Throw in a target forward in Casey/Ching or McBride and the physically imposing players on our team improves. Granted we still have Donovan and Beasley, but that is only because we want someone to lead the counterattack.

Count down for the "Maradona was only 5'5"" post in 5...4...3...

[Ronaldo's Idol]

Count down for the "Maradona was only 5'5"" post in 5...4...3...


Maradona was only 5'5".

[LuckyNat]

I agree that against taller teams the US has been vulnerable in the past on set pieces.

The reason? The US has been behind the curve a bit in building soccer as a mainstream sport. As a result, a lot of young atheltic kids play football, baseball, hockey, basketball etc. In basketball and in particular football, kids who are tall or large (6' +) are clear advantages. So maybe some of the taller kids go and play other sports or are placed between the pipes.

In addition, our fastest and/or more skillful players over the last 10+ years haven't exactly been big. Reyna, Donovan, Beasley, etc. aren't all that physically imposing on set pieces.

I think we are improving on set pieces as our athleticism in soccer catches up. As we get better as a country, our ability to bring forward physically imposing skilled midfielders, defenders and forwards will improve. You are seeing it already with our defenders. Take our pool now.....Gooch, Marshall, Pope, Bocanegra, etc. are all very physically imposing players. Throw in a target forward in Casey/Ching or McBride and the physically imposing players on our team improves. Granted we still have Donovan and Beasley, but that is only because we want someone to lead the counterattack.

My gut tells me that this issue is more than just height. Not that height isn't a big part of it...

[Shibb]

Maradona was only 5'5".

Yeah, but most shorter field players aren't allowed to use their hands.

[LuckyNat]

Let's get off the well-tread issue of height.

My point was that I think the USMNT is particularly vulnerable defensively on set pieces BEYOND what you would expect given any height discrepancy. Why?

[Adam Zebrowski]

used to be usa had trouble with the counter attack, because the defenders were slow...

now, set pieces....defensive cohension and playing together continually should remedy it.

[Sachin]

Because we're very easy to push around.

We've done well against teams that rely on speed and skill (Portugal, Mexico) but we've done extremely poorly against teams that can out-muscle us (Germany, Poland).

To bring it closer to home, we always have a tough time with Jamaica but not as much against El Salvador.

This translates to set pieces because we can get pushed around and moved out of position.

Sachin

[CUS]

Maradona was only 5'5".
Is that standing up, or lying down?

I'd think that since that German game, the US has scored more on set pieces than conceeded.

Just going by memory, though.

[Asprilla9]

right now, soccer is a sissy sport in the US. our players are white, surburbanit pansies...it's no wonder they get pushed around by the germans and poles. none of our players have had what i would consider a tough upbringing. think about how many other sports, you hear about "rags to riches" stories. you NEVER hear about this in US soccer, b/c no one out there has a rags to riches story. all our players are from the suburbs of Cali, STL, NJ...etc. thank God we have Freddy Adu....he is one guy who's come from DIRT POOR background to success via the hard work of he and his family. we need more Freddy's ....

[Adam Zebrowski]

i think dempsey is liked by arena because of his cajones...

[Asprilla9]

i think dempsey is liked by arena because of his cajones...same with mathis, that's why he endeared himself to US fans. i don't know why these guys are so hard to find in America ... but we need more players with some attitude, some aggressiveness...

[JohnR]

right now, soccer is a sissy sport in the US. our players are white, surburbanit pansies...it's no wonder they get pushed around by the germans and poles. none of our players have had what i would consider a tough upbringing. think about how many other sports, you hear about "rags to riches" stories. you NEVER hear about this in US soccer, b/c no one out there has a rags to riches story. all our players are from the suburbs of Cali, STL, NJ...etc. thank God we have Freddy Adu....he is one guy who's come from DIRT POOR background to success via the hard work of he and his family. we need more Freddy's ....

You've been watching too many Hollywood movies where the villians are the rich white blonde fraternity boys. That's a bone thrown your way so that you can feel better about yourself.

Marketing is not reality, although I recognize that many people have trouble distinguishing between the two.

[socrne1]

right now, soccer is a sissy sport in the US. our players are white, surburbanit pansies...it's no wonder they get pushed around by the germans and poles. none of our players have had what i would consider a tough upbringing. think about how many other sports, you hear about "rags to riches" stories. you NEVER hear about this in US soccer, b/c no one out there has a rags to riches story. all our players are from the suburbs of Cali, STL, NJ...etc. thank God we have Freddy Adu....he is one guy who's come from DIRT POOR background to success via the hard work of he and his family. we need more Freddy's ....


Umm check your facts, Eddie Johnson is a perfect rags to riches story, read the ussoccer article about him, and all of our players are not White suburbanite pansies, we can field an all balck team. Troll

[Sachin]

right now, soccer is a sissy sport in the US. our players are white, surburbanit pansies...it's no wonder they get pushed around by the germans and poles. none of our players have had what i would consider a tough upbringing. think about how many other sports, you hear about "rags to riches" stories. you NEVER hear about this in US soccer, b/c no one out there has a rags to riches story. all our players are from the suburbs of Cali, STL, NJ...etc. thank God we have Freddy Adu....he is one guy who's come from DIRT POOR background to success via the hard work of he and his family. we need more Freddy's ....
Wow.. I guess it's true that eventually every thought, no matter how stupid and purile will eventually be stated on the Internet.

Sachin

[HeadHunter]

I'm an idiot with a chip on my shoulder blah blah blah.

by the way how did you get you internet access?

[swedust]

Attempt to get back on topic: While I don't give a hoot for the statistics about how many set-piece goals we concede compared to others: I agree with thread starter that my nerves get very on edge when we're defending set pieces. The new influx of taller players, especially defenders, does make me less ill-at-ease, but I too have a perception that we're weak there. (Has Donovan served up one threatening-looking dead ball in the last few games since he started taking 90% of them?)

This may seem as equally objectionable as the out-of-the-barrio comment, but I suggest that this may be one area where the USA's relatively shallow soccer culture or history still shows. What I mean is that these plays happen in about 3/4 of a second, and the instinctual communication between server (who may be 20 or 30 yards away) and the target players may not be as fully evolved in US players as, say, the way patience in the batter's box is.

Sure it can be taught, but there's not enough time to think or remember what you went over once the play starts, unless it's very deeply ingrained. And that comes from seeing it done well, and done over and over and over and over, over the course of many years and stages of a player's development.

The lack of exposure to truly excellent execution that a US player faces -- no matter how great their own skill or potential -- is a deficit in these situations that are decided by split-second timing and a few inches of advantage over (or around) their marker.

With our player pool improving, and Fox Soccer Channel augmenting our domestic offerings, this will change.

[JohnR]

all of our players are not White suburbanite pansies

Some are even white suburban nonpansies, strange as that notion might seem.