dempsey - where does he fit in?

[blech]

i was going to post this in the postgame colombia discussion, but thought i'd start a new thread instead. i didn't get to see it, but it sounds like dempsey had another strong performance last night and is continuing to make a case for starting. it also sounds like he's quite flexible in terms of where he could play, but that it would be unfortunate to play him strictly as a d-mid and lose his offense. do others who have seen him agree with this assessment? if we went to a 4-5-1 with 2 attacking mids who take turns pushing up with johnson, would that be a good role for dempsey? an offense that looked something like:

--------------keller--------------
--xxxx---xxxxx-----xxxxx---xxxx--
--------------mastro-------------
--beasley----------------lewis---
--------donovan-dempsey--------
-------------johnson-------------

of course, it could just as easily be a 4-4-2 with a diamond midfield and a trailing forward, but with the thought that donovan and dempsey would take turns pushing up to be a second forward as necessary and not assigned to one position or the other. if not this kind of role, where does dempsey fit in? does he force donovan to the outside or up to being a pure forward? can dempsey play the right mid or a pure forward himself? and, can johnson flourish with this type of supporting play, or does he need more of a mcbride post-up person up there with him? what do people think?

(and, please don't get hung up on who i've put in the other midfield positions - you could just as easily substitute the letters xxxx in these three positions as i've done with the defense as this was just for discussion purposes).

[Adam Zebrowski]

I say two mids are beasley and donovan who do the attacking...

and now, it's two out of these three..mastroeni...zavagnen and dempsey...

depending on who you're playing and match-ups arena picks the two he needs and uses the other as a sub...

now, the key is how you fit reyna into the mix, which means the 3 guys become 4 and it's and entirely different matter...

now mastroeni as defenders opens up playing time...

arena does have some nice choices, and I suspect he rotates players...

most of the hex, there's two games within 3 days, so depth and talented replacements are a huge advantage...

[forza inter]

ill agree with adam as usual. but it hink the original idea of dempsey playing more advanced trading off with donovan also has merit. bease out wide runnin all over leaving donovan/dempsey and even sometimes bease to come inside and run at defenders centrally with ej. thatd be some damn offense. bruce surprised me with his formation last night for sure so who knows what he will play next and who will play where. im glad dempsey got a whole 90 under his belt last night. hopefully hell get another 90 vs hondorus.



forza inter

[FirstStar]

It's great to see such depth developing for the US side, especially with so many young players starting to realize their promise.

I think you can start seeing dempsey as a flexible piece of the ever-changing midfield puzzle. Clearly we have to keep LD and DMB on the field, and Mastro is staking claim as the best d-mid option for '06. With these three, I think you see the dempster slide into the field on one side of Mastro in BA's favorite 4-4-2 formation. Mastro and Dempsey them become interchangable with JOB and Reyna.

The 4-4-2 still will give him opportunity to over-lap forward and contribute on offense.

What I'd like to see is more of a 3-5-1 or 4-2-1-2-1 where Mastro and JOB team up for d-mid with Dempsey (taking Reyna's spot) as a central play-maker. I wonder if he's up to that task?

[nath7998]

I say two mids are beasley and donovan who do the attacking...

and now, it's two out of these three..mastroeni...zavagnen and dempsey...

depending on who you're playing and match-ups arena picks the two he needs and uses the other as a sub...

now, the key is how you fit reyna into the mix, which means the 3 guys become 4 and it's and entirely different matter...

now mastroeni as defenders opens up playing time...

arena does have some nice choices, and I suspect he rotates players...

most of the hex, there's two games within 3 days, so depth and talented replacements are a huge advantage...

Who are the 'locks' to start against Mexico?

Keller, Pope, Gibbs, Donovan, Beasley.

[voros]

I think it's important to have Dempsey with somewhat limited defensive responsibilities. He defends reasonably well but when he's given too much in the way of defensive responsibilities, his offensive game suffers and that's where he really excels.

I personally would like to see him tried as the McBride replacement, because he could really be an all purpose forward to compliment an out and out striker. What hasn't been seen with the Nats yet (due to the position he's played), but was evident with the Revs last year was how dangerous this kid can be in front of the net, particularly on crosses.

To an extent Arena has the option of going a "Total Football" route and sticking his 5 best attackers out there and letting them sort out how to make it work. Dempsey would work well in such a set up as he has the technical ability and physical tools to run with the best we have.

[Bruce S]

I think I have seen every club game of Dempsey's.I actually like him as a deeper midfielder.There is no rule that says deep midfielders have to have bad offensive skills! he can play deep and surprise the other team by popping up in the attack- look at Viera.

[Nutmeg]

Wherever we need him.








It really is that simple, folks.

[nath7998]

I think I have seen every club game of Dempsey's.I actually like him as a deeper midfielder.There is no rule that says deep midfielders have to have bad offensive skills! he can play deep and surprise the other team by popping up in the attack- look at Viera.

Good point. Look at Spector and Manchester United. He was a forward. Now he's a defender with offensive skills.

I'm not familiar with him, but it sounds like he can play in the center of the field as well as wide.

With Mastroeni playing as well as he is, could Dempsey find a place in front of him?

[GRUNT]

Dempsey was most dangerous tearing down the flanks last night. He is fast as hell, and that's where he can exploit it. I don't know if I would start him. Maybe. A WCQ in Azteca is beyond big, but, frankly, he seemed to have absolutely no fear last night. He ran at anyone who made the mistake of getting in his way, and he usually got past them.

As I said in the post-game thread, I could definitely see him coming on as a Cobi-type sub. Clint Dempsey could become the next Gringo they love to hate. :D

[voros]

I think I have seen every club game of Dempsey's.I actually like him as a deeper midfielder.There is no rule that says deep midfielders have to have bad offensive skills!
Yes but their defensive skills should still be better and I'm pretty much convinced that at this stage, Dempsey's a better attacker than a defender. Also, one very strong aspect of Dempsey's game, running with the ball, has to be very much reigned in if you're a d-mid. You can't get the ball outside of your own box and then try and beat an opposing player off the dribble. That's suicidal. So I personally prefer to have players in positions that play to their biggest strengths, and I don't think D-Mid is that spot.

Therefore I think he's better off in the attack as I don't think he's a better d-mid than Mastroeni who has been playing very well for the Nats as of late. But he might be our best player at right mid or target forward (though he would assumedly re-define that target forward role in an entirely different way than McBride played it).

I'm not really a Revs fan, but after he blew through the Metrostars defense shedding defenders like they were house flies and then he deftly dribbled Jonny Walker, before slotting it into the empty net...

...well, ever since I've made a point of catching all of his club games as well. He's tough as a nickel steak with a whole bunch of technical and athletic talent to go with it. Kid is a special player. If he played anything like that for Furman, it's criminal he wasn't more highly regarded coming out of College.

[Geneva]

I'm not sure where you play him, but I miss the mop already. His haircut was a little distressing.;)

[helmzgk]

I've got to think that Dempsey is a two way midfielder, very much like a Reyna. Given a couple more years, and barring injury, I think he could be even better than Reyna.

Especially after last night, people keep trying to start the debate of where in the midfield to play him, either deep or attacking. That wasn't the case last night at the game. He played both, and excelled in both areas. His passes were crisp and his offensive and defensive pressure was awesome. Time and time again he stole the ball from Colombia and than surged forward to start the attack. He tracked back to his own penalty box, and before you knew it, he would be recieiving a pass deep in Colombia's half. He was all over the field and played well. He's exactly the type of midfielder that Arena wants to be playing in the middle.

[superdave]

I like Arena as a coach...but I have this nagging suspicion that Dempsey won't come into his own until a new coach who encourages flexibility within a match takes over.

Also, I've before suggested he play the "Scholes" role in a 4-4-1-1, how Scholes "paired" with RVN, with Eddie Johnson playing the Ruud role. The team would look something like this:


............GK...............
Dolo.Pope.Boca.????
...Pablo.....Reyna....
...Landon....DMB.....
......Dempsey.........
.........GAM............

What I like about a formation like this is that Dempsey can help out winning balls in the air in the midfield, and still have the freedom to get onto crosses in the box. He's master of the diving header, remember.

Alternatively, pair him with Reyna in the midfield, behind Landon and Beasley.

[ElRoss425]

Dempsey isn't in the top 11 right now, if we're injury free

[helmzgk]

Dempsey isn't in the top 11 right now, if we're injury free

That might be true, but his play has made it hard for Arena to keep him out of the top 18. And right now, we're not injury free, and who knows when JOB or Reyna will make it back into the MNT.

[ElRoss425]

Who has he beat out of:
Cherundolo
Gibbs
Pope
Bocanegra
Lewis
Donovan
Mastroeni
Beasley
EJ
McBride
Keller

i don't think he's even beat out Convey, Gaven, Klein(when healthy), O'Brien(when healthy), Reyna(when healthy), or Mathis

[Sanguine]

Who has he beat out of:
Cherundolo
Gibbs
Pope
Bocanegra
Lewis
Donovan
Mastroeni
Beasley
EJ
McBride
Keller

i don't think he's even beat out Convey, Gaven, Klein(when healthy), O'Brien(when healthy), Reyna(when healthy), or Mathis

well, he's not really competing with all of those guys (although, with his versatility, he is competing with more than most guys) but I could see him pushing Lewis out of the lineup within the year.

[ElRoss425]

As long as we're speculating, he could take over Lewis's spot, but with a healthy Reyna and O'Brien it would be a moot point b/c Lewis wouldn't even be seeing the field. Also, if Philipakos can hang at this level(which sounds fairly promising at this point) I'd like to see him take over RM and move DMB back to LM

[ElRoss425]

I like Dempsey and think he could be a great player, the only thing is we already have better players slotted ahead of him in the lineup. I love our depth these days and that we can even have these conversations.